Disappointed in my new Lance

[stickbowjoe]

I've had it 2 weeks today.

The fridge didn't work on propane, which cost me a 500 mile, 2 day round trip to the dealer, much of which was in an ice storm.

Should have found the faulty thermocouple in the factory, I reckon.

Dealer fixed that. (They should have found it too.)

Almost none of the doors, catches, latches were properly adjusted. Just thrown together. When I adjusted them, i found many screws loose or worse, stripped out.

The outdoor shower was/is a bad joke. I intend to disable it.

I can deal with all this little stuff, but if what I can see is so poorly done, what about the stuff I can't?

The basic structure?

I lived in a Lance 1010 for the past 10 years, and bought this new 850 because I trusted them.

I hope I haven't made a huge mistake.

Joe

[Bedlam]

I pulled this picture out of another thread to show some typical northwest growth on vehicles. The green hue is organics making a home on just about any surface due to our weather.

[Jfet]

Bedlam wrote:

Where I live, the humidity rarely drops below 54% and can be as high as 98%. 2/3rds of the year has measurable precipitation and that does not count the days of drizzle that don't move the rain gauge.

Rot, mold and moss is a major issue with RV's in this area so location does play a big part in what type of problems we have to address. We really don't get paint fade or rubber deterioration here like in some states. You can find cars with original paint and interior here that are 50 years old and lived outside their entire lives.

In the same area as Bedlam and we are running a 115V dehumidifier in our camper while it is under construction. Before the dehumidifier I measured the RH and got readings of 85 to 95%! and the camper is in a dry garage. Now it is constant 35% but I have to empty a quart of water once a week if we open the temporary door a lot.

[bigfootford]

lincolnmatthews wrote:
No they won't install a wrap around dinette in the 1050s. I talked to the Lance Rep a couple of months back, he checked with the factory & they said no way!. Which I thought was unfortunate. Doesn't make much sense to me, but what do I know. The new 1052 or? looks really great but I don't want a camper with 2 slides, (double trouble as far as I'm concerned)

I find this funny....

Back in 1999 we were looking at campers and liked the Lance's. We wanted a dinette style of table.... I contacted Lance... Reply was same as yours... "NO WAY".... Cost them a sale of a camper, we bought a Bigfoot.
Funny, about 3-4 years later they offered it... Now here we go again...


Jim

[lincolnmatthews]

No they won't install a wrap around dinette in the 1050s. I talked to the Lance Rep a couple of months back, he checked with the factory & they said no way!. Which I thought was unfortunate. Doesn't make much sense to me, but what do I know. The new 1052 or? looks really great but I don't want a camper with 2 slides, (double trouble as far as I'm concerned)

[Bedlam]

stickbowjoe wrote:
If you live in an environment where mushrooms grow in your armpits, that is NOT Lance's, nor anyone else's fault!

Deal with your issues!

In fun. Sorta. 🙂

Joe

Where I live, the humidity rarely drops below 54% and can be as high as 98%. 2/3rds of the year has measurable precipitation and that does not count the days of drizzle that don't move the rain gauge.

Rot, mold and moss is a major issue with RV's in this area so location does play a big part in what type of problems we have to address. We really don't get paint fade or rubber deterioration here like in some states. You can find cars with original paint and interior here that are 50 years old and lived outside their entire lives.

[run100]

lincolnmatthews wrote:
I wish they made one to match the AF 992 or the EC995 & with a wrap around dinette! If they did I would buy it!

Check out the new Lance 1052. It is very nice and I'm thinking Lance will be selling a bunch of them. If I'm not mistaken, Lance will install either a booth, or U-shaped dinette on most models.

[stickbowjoe]

I lived in my 2004 Lance 1010 for 122 months.

Get off this "inevitability of rot" garbage.

It simply, and demonstrably, is not true, no matter how many yachts you have refurbished.

When i started this thread, Jefe4x4 told me I was "lucky" to have lived in my camper for 10 years without mold and rot!

What utter crap!

If you live in an environment where mushrooms grow in your armpits, that is NOT Lance's, nor anyone else's fault!

Deal with your issues!

In fun. Sorta. 🙂

Joe

[travelnutz]

lincolnmatthews,

John Rybovich called "POP" had 3 sons: Emil, Tom, & Johnny Rybovich and Emil was the youngest and still worked there after it was first sold to John P. Fisher. Think of the GM "Body by Fisher" family. Later after John Fisher died his kids fought and ended up selling to Spencer Boat Works next door. There's a lot to the entire story and history but I won't post it. They did make an extremely fine quality boat, that's for sure and they stood behind them for as long as the owner had it, engines and all! John Fisher and Emil Rybovich were very fine and honest people. We've been in and on many of their boats in the past.

[travelnutz]

lincolnmatthews,

So true, no TC is really any good unless you use and enjoy it. If not, it's a very expensive yard ornament!

However, a long story as to why we have the 990 Lance Legend but to make it shorter. Both our 1997 Lances, the Squire 4000 and the 990 Legend where ordered on the same day. The Squire was for our 3/4 ton Chevy ext cab LB 4X4 for short simple trips and the Legend was for our Chevy ext cab dually for longer trips and Alaska. The Squire came in first and we used it several times on the 3/4 ton. It rode super smooth with the Squire on it and that was very important as my wife has extreme back and neck problems and can't take jolts when riding. It was fine for her. When the Legend came in and we put it on the dually, she couldn't handle the harsh ride at all. So the Legend was put in inside the storage building with the plastic protectors still on the appliances and the carpet and was still a virgin TC and I sold the truck.

We used the Squire until 2009 on the 3/4 ton gas and then the diesel and over 140,000 miles, Alaska trips, and you name it while the new Legend just sat inside still a virgin and collecting dust. We always buy cash so never any payments to worry about. During that Squire use time period my wife had so many operations and has fusions, metal brackets, plates, a bunch of screws, and other fixes in her to give her a new back etc. Turned out excellent! Yup, she's bionic now and can't get near metal detectors as they go nutz. Pun intended! I can honestly say the my wife is "screwed up" and kidding of course!

A friend wanted to buy our Squire so for kicks I put the stored 11'4" very heavy optioned out to the hilt Legend on the 2004.5 Chevy D/A CC LB 4X4 truck just to see how it handled and rode before we sold it and ordered a new smaller Lance. To our surprise, it rode as good as when the Squire was on the same truck and handled exactly the same. The '04.5 diesel truck has airbags just like the 3/4 ton had so just increased the PSI from 40 to 65 and it was perfect. I'd already replaced the OEM Bridgestone junk 245 tires bald to the steel belts at 29K and change with 265 Michelins so capacity was no problem at 3415 each as all 3 GM HD trucks are identical and now the 2500 HD was identical to the 3500HD SRW model. I'm a retired auto engineer and I know the Big 3 pickups very well.

Sold the Squire and since 2009 have used the Legend for over 70,000 miles so far and of course it still looks just like it's new. We knew that nobody would give us even close to half of the $28,000 we paid for the Legend still new at 12 years old so we decided to keep it as it was actually still new and not a scratch, mark, or stain. We are so happy with it and the 3400 watt built in propane generator and having two 30# propane tanks, decent sized holding tanks and 40 gal fresh water and all the other options. We travel a lot and do both dry and hookup camping.

Now you know some more of the story.

[lincolnmatthews]

Travelnutz, yes I very familiar with the Rybovich Wooden tournament yachts! very beautiful! I would love to get back to the Carolina's to see them. The Rybovich Brothers & the old man built the top fishing boats in there day.(I know a little off topic)I currently own a Jack Hargrave designed boat that was built back there also.
I always wanted to get back to Port Clinton to see the Matthews Plant before it burned, but never made it. I still love there boats.
Yes indeed it is a small world!
I actually was thinking about a new Lance, because of what you had also mentioned because of there huge $$$ commitment for CNC equip. I figured that the tolerance's had to be better than the other guys.
I love the 1181's floor plan (rear kitchen, forward bath) but it is just a little to long for the place's where we go off road with our 880 I think. I wish they made one to match the AF 992 or the EC995 & with a wrap around dinette! If they did I would buy it! Oh well, I will probably end up with a new EC or AF.
The main thing is to get out & enjoy our TC's no matter what they are!

[travelnutz]

lincolnmatthews,

You didn't offend me at all but I wanted to keep the info on this thread truthful and accurate.

Here's a way to stop wings etc from rotting in areas you don't see. Especially if you are in a wet type climate. Carefully and thoroughly dry out the wings one at a time as best you possibly can. Days of blowing heat not hours so all the moisture wicks out! Assuming the wood in the wing is in decent condition, replace all the screws in the wing molding with longer SS screws pre-dipped in a good sealant covering the threads to the head and screw them in. Now water won't leak around the screwhead. Next, mask off the molding and around the wing to eliminate overspray leaving 1/8" to 1/4" of the molding left bare next to the black inside side of the wing. Then spray 2 to 3 coats of Dupli-Color pickup bed spray in liner totally sealing the inside surface of the wing and all joints including over the bumper lag bolts inside You can't see the inside anyway unless you climb under the TC. Wait an hour or so between coats or more if in high humidity and the temp must be above 50 F. If you see a crack or aby cracks that didn't cover/seal totally between the molding and the wood or at a joint, fill it with the spray after the rest is covered. It's a tough rubber membrane when it's dry and impervious to water.

I'd done this to the big 11-1/2' Caribou TC we owned to the entire under side and it worked super but the roof leaked above the door and rotted the door frame so bad that it was ready to fall out and the TC was only 6 years old. Fleetwood refused to fix it even if we paid the bill. They knew something we didn't and it went bye bye. That's when we bought our first Lance.

I've used the Dupli-Color bed liner or several things since and it's great stuff. Can build it up so it thick and it really seals. Takes weeks to a month to harden into a real rubber coating so give it time but you can use the items while curing but not to walk on. Sun or heat on it cures it much quicker. Remember that it's made to be used for a pickup bed sprayed in liner so it has to be tought when cured.

I also treated some plywood with Thompson's Water Seal and allowed to dry for a few day with heat and then sprayed the bed liner on it and it still after 14 years in the year around elements uncovered in Michigan is like new but it took a couple months for the bed liner to cure to hard when over the Thompsons. Just depends on your patience and how good or long you want something to last.

I'm very familiar with Matthew Yachts plank boats as there are a lot of them on the Great Lakes. Also, my older brother worked years before retired from Rybovich Marine, now merged with Spencer, in WPB Florida at 42nd on North Flagler Drive where they built extremely expensive custom plank boats called "Rybo Runners" ocean tournament sailfishing boats 30' to 80' long with huge SS towers. They fiberglassed and epoxy bonded between the inner plank and the outer plank and used 52-100 on all thru hull fittings etc. Later used Fiberglass hulls. Perhaps you are familiar with them, both wood and glass!

Small world!

[abslayer]

It is funny how people blame TC manufacturer for rot problems after a few years when ever manual tells you to check roof / lights / windows ever year to see if they needed to be re-caulk AND they do not and then blame problems on what ever TC they got.

Folks these things bounce and twisted around when you travel things break sealing becomes loose or crack.

Check ever 3 months and you will not have these problems.
My first check on my 2012 Adventure roof showed 2 areas that had to be re-caulk.
What you think would happen 3 years down the road if I had not checked.
Hell I did a check on hour one of owning camper just to be sure;)

[billtex]

stickbowjoe wrote:
3 years, huh? How'd you come up with that?

Totally arbitrary number, without any support for it offered, near as I can tell.

I see you don't have a TC, or at least don't mention that you do.

Thanks though. 🙂

Joe

Eagle Cap 3 yr warranty

[lincolnmatthews]

Apparently you have been very fortunate with your TC's & your right that I don't know about your campers etc. I just know that this is an apparent problem with these older Lance's. They actually sell a kit to repair this area (the wings). I have a dually truck (with mud guards) but it will throw a lot of spray up into the wing areas.
Once wood is wet its almost impossible to dry it out, (I know about this as I have restored a couple of Matthews Yachts) built out of mahogany & oak. Anyway my 93 880 had a 1" frame assy covered with 1/8" Luan over both sides. They covered this with a black tar paper like material on the inboard side & of course the outer metal on the finished side. This was a very crappy way to build a camper IMO, there was no way to really seal this.
This is where the steel staples & screws rusted away, you could literally flex these sides by hand. As mentioned earlier once wet you can't really dry it out & it gets dry rot started & hopefully one finds it before it moves into the flooring (plywood that will never dry out) or into the corner posts. Actually once the wood gets wet it starts a galvanic action & anywhere that a steel staple or screw is touching the aluminum outer skin it will eat tiny holes in the siding, because of the dissimilar metals, this is a real PITA.
And yes I am an expert on restoring old yachts & my old Lance. I replaced all the wood on both sides (lower areas) the cross pieces with clear fir & 1" marine plywood for the wings, all thourghly saturated with a marine 2 part epoxy. The epoxy when mixed with there powder to thicken it, it becomes stronger than the wood itself. So this procedure along with stainless hardware is really the only proper way to repair any old wood camper.
Basically my impression of my Lance was this: very beautiful & finished nice on the inside, top of the line appliances, upholstery, windows which made for a very beautiful camper. And still looks new after I had the paint matched & had all the jacks & bumper sandblasted then sprayed them to match. I just think that behind all the beautiful cosmetics that there really not built any better than the other top brands!
And yes I live in a wet area, & even though my camper has always been stored inside when not in use it takes a beating because of this climate.
I'm sorry if I offended you Travelnutz that wasn't my intent. Take care!

[travelnutz]

lincolnmattews,

Not obsessed but I know what service and use we've gotten from our 3 Lance TC's and you don't. I'm the one who has to fix or repair if it needs it or take it to the dealer etc to have an RV fixed. I'd thank you for NOT telling me that even our Lance wing rotted as you don't know what you're talking about!

Our 1997 Squire 4000 optioned out was ordered new in the summer of 1996 by us, traveled over 140,000 miles including Alaska and every continental state including all but 3 Canadian Provinces. Sold to a friend in 2009 and it did NOT have any wing rot and still doesn't now 5 years later. Our friend re-sold it this past fall when he'd bought his new larger Lance as his 2 kids had grown since 2009.

None of our purchased new 3 Lance TC's have had any wing rot or leaks if you really want to know. I never removed any molding etc either to re-seal/caulk as it sure wasn't needed. We still see the 1988 Lance TC around town on a pickup but I haven't climbed under it to inspect the wings of it lately but they sure look normal.

Might be the price you pay for living where you do as you live in the NW and have so much constant wetness with so much rain and drizzle etc but most people who have Lance TC's etc don't. I only know of one Lance in our area that had some wing rot near the bottom of the passenger side wing. He said that he dried it out with an electric heater and sprayed Thompson's Water Seal (the petroleum based) all over the wood area and soaked the edges a couple years ago and it hasn't rotted any further since. His is a 1999 (15 years old now) and it's his words not mine. Your's always stored inside and the screws rusted away quote: (Of course these were all rusted away.) Getting a little deep? Screws rusted away and stored inside and the TC didn''t fall apart? Magically bonded and held together by the "invisible force of nature" from Star Wars?

I really don't give two hoots what you buy or like as it's your choice but you certainly don't talk for everyone else or anyone else!