Hi,I'm starting to research Trucks that are suitable for a TV.I've read the the HUGE discussion on Diesel vs gas so lets not go there! :-)This question is: Do I need Dual wheels or single wheels?We currently have a TT that we tow with our GMC Yukon XL 90+K miles but really struggled when we just did a 4 week trip from San Diego to Jasper NP in Canada vi Utah etc and back via Washington and Oregon.. Given the advancing miles and the prospect of doing even longer and tougher trips with my young family then its time to replace the Yukon while I still have some re-sale left in her.We may sell the TT sometime in the future and get a 5th wheel that is MUCH heavier.. who knows? So my spec for the truck needs to be based on possible future trailers or 5'ers rather than our existing one. I don't want to be limited by my TV when it comes to choosing a new RV.So with that said.. should I choose dual or single?What are the advantages and disadvantages?Please can you give reasons for your opinions?Many Thanks!Steve

Hi Steve. Your question is pretty general so hard to give specific advice but it all depends on what you are thinking about buying in the future. This advice is not true in all cases as it depends on some specifics but a good general rule of thumb for the modern trucks (couple years old)is:3/4 ton or SRW 1 ton for up to around 12k GVWR FW. The SRW vehicles are generally limited by payload capacity on the rear axle and tire ratings. You could go gas or diesel with this combination based on your preferenceIf you are going over 12k GVWR (and definitely over 14k GVWR) trailers you need a dually to get the payload capacity. With dual wheels you generally become limited by the GCWR at that point. This is diesel land in a pickup I wouldn't even think about gas unless it was the ford v10 (dodge and chevy don't make a gas big enough in a pick up any more for this load)There's no real advantage or disadvantage with dual wheels in non towing activities IMHO. I use a dually as a daily driver and put it anywhere you can put a car including parking garages.

Thanks for the reply!I would like to dimension the trucks capabilities so that I will not be limited in the future. Just to show my ignorance could you remind me what GCWR stands for again?If I understand correctly then in layman's terms that a DRW gives you a much higher tongue weight capability than a SRW if we're talking about TT's. Not sure how that relates to 5'ers though??I can let the cat out of the bag and say that I'm pretty keen on a 3500 Diesel.. Something like: 3500 TruckWould this truck serve me well regardless of my choice of future TT or 5ifth wheel?Thanks Again!

A lot also depends upon the cab style, ie my 2000 C2500 reg cab has 3800 lbs of payload, mean while my 05 dually crew cab, has all of 300 more lbs at 4100 lbs. REality is, BOTH have about the same ability at the end of the day from a payload perspective, but slightly different, if one is choosing based on the drive train!For me, I choose a tv that has a GRAWR of about 1/2 of the trailer wt for the minimum chassis size, then make sure I have the payload to carry the wt in the bed, be it hitch wt or bikes or whatever, add in people wt too. I then choose a drive train to meet MY specs and needs, not the nganeers in detroit or where ever that want to spec a truck to THERE needs and wants! This takes practice and some math figuring.At the end of the day, ALL trucks have a limit, The ONLY way you will always have too much truck from an rv standpoint, is to buy at least a class 7 tractor! Otherwise, like many 25 series trucks with diesels, 4x leathe crew cab versions. some have less payload than the strongest reg cab half ton ie 15 series trucks. Along with some SW 25;s like the one I have, have more to a bit less than dw crew cab trucks. At the end of the day, you in reality need to figure out the how much payload you need along with body style, THEN and ONLY THEN, can you figure out what truck will or will not work for you. What works for you, may not work for me with 4 adult size teens and a given equal wt trailer. I will need more truck chassis payload than you. If hauling a ball mount, you need minimum 1000 to 1500 lbs of free payload per 10K lbs of trailer. For a 5w, you will need 2000-2500 lbs of free payload per 10K lbs of trailer. You can get away with WAY less truck in a ball mount, than a 5w!Marty

Hi,It seems like the single rear wheel F-350 has enough cargo capacity for a larger fifth wheel, and does not require the extra wide fenders that tend to get hit by things. You can also check the new GMC 3500 SRW, they have a higher GVWR than the prior years. It might also meet your needs. For a 14,000 pound fifth wheel, then you would guess about 20% hitch weight, or about 2800 pounds. Then the hitch weight is about 150 - 200 pounds. You can figure the weight of passengers, dog and firewood, then add that to the 3,000 pounds or so for the trailer. The problem is until you have the heavier trailer, the truck can ride like a lumber wagon, until you load it up to 2,200 pounds or more. Most travel trailers are well under 1,400 pounds hitch weight, and you will tow yours fine, even with lightly tightened weight distribution hitch.Fred.

Golden_HVAC wrote:Hi,It seems like the single rear wheel F-350 has enough cargo capacity for a larger fifth wheel, and does not require the extra wide fenders that tend to get hit by things. You can also check the new GMC 3500 SRW, they have a higher GVWR than the prior years. It might also meet your needs. For a 14,000 pound fifth wheel, then you would guess about 20% hitch weight, or about 2800 pounds. Then the hitch weight is about 150 - 200 pounds. You can figure the weight of passengers, dog and firewood, then add that to the 3,000 pounds or so for the trailer. The problem is until you have the heavier trailer, the truck can ride like a lumber wagon, until you load it up to 2,200 pounds or more. Most travel trailers are well under 1,400 pounds hitch weight, and you will tow yours fine, even with lightly tightened weight distribution hitch.Fred.^^^ I would say not good advice ^^^^If you plan on going larger in the future, and don't replace your TV every two years, because it is out of style, or it is getting OLD, then go with the 3500 DRW. It is your choice, right now the Dmax/Allison is not a bad choice. Personally I would (for me) stick to a Cummins. Just wondering are you brand loyal, even so give the Cummins a try, you might be surprised! Buying a diesel is an investment, yes they cost $8k to $10K more out the door new, but the resale value of a good used diesel retains a large percentage of those $$$$. Once you have towed with one you will likely never go back to gas.Current;y fuel cost is only about 10 percent more than gas, and towing mileage for the same result is about 30 to 60 percent better. You still need to run about 120K miles to get pay back on the $$$, but the payback in towing power is immediate!

Dual Rear or Single Rear Wheels on Tow Truck?

smcrea
Explorer II
Jul 15, 2013
jack0351 wrote:
LOTS of things to consider- payloads and weight ratings, etc. If you truely dont want to outgrow the truck, look at the largest FW you would want now, and then buy a TV to match that. It may be overkill until you get that FW, but you will not have to worry about being too small when you buy the FW.

I ordered my Voltage, and then realized the truck I had wasn't going to cut it, because I didnt do enough homework, and fell into the "a 1 ton can tow anything" trap. When I finally sat down and worked the numbers, the (older-2000 MY) 1 ton wasnt rated high enough to tow my Voltage empty, and had to scramble to find a more suitable TV. That was how I ended up with my F450.

If the TV will also be a daily driver, that will factor in a lot as well. You need to WANT to drive your TV as a daily driver, and if you're not comfortable, it sort of defeats the purpose!

Hi Jack,

I see that you're from Santee. We also live in San Diego andf was at Santee lakes a few weeks ago..

Anyway.. I saw your reply to my old post.

We are still researching both tow vehicle and 5th wheel with a view to buying a 'pair' in the not to distant future.

We are closing in on a Toy Hauler.. something that will hold a UTV in the garage and give us that patio that we really like!.. we've been looking at the Voltage, Fusions and Cyclones.

Anyway back to the original topic. I was talking to a guy at Holmans about the Toy Haulers and we got onto the topic of the TV. he tells me that it's not about pin weight, it's not about gross towing weight, it's all about stability. He was saying that when you put your UTV in the garage that your pion weight is actually reduced because of the pivot around the axles, but stability is a problem because you have the weight at the back.

He's therefore HIGHLY recommending getting a DRW and not SRW for that very reason.

So now we're looking at a Chevy 3500 DRW.

Any comments on this TV and any feedback on the Toy Haulers?

Thanks,

Steve
Huntindog
Explorer
Aug 27, 2012
4x4ord wrote:
smcrea wrote:
Hi All,

Thanks for all the discussions on this SRW vs DRW quesion:

I was trying to sum it all up and came up with this.. am I close?

- $345 difference in price from a SRW
- People say that the DRW sits on the road like it was on rails when towing and is much more ‘stable’
- It is however wider by about 12”. People say that if the mirrors fit then your hips fit as well but you have to be careful when parking.
- The DRW carries more load than a single rear wheel and so opens the 5th door to just about anything we can see.

Would I be able to tow most except the VERY largest 5th wheels with a SRW 3500?

My problem is that one we arrive on site and setup the RV then the tow vehicle becomes the family car, so we cant have something that is unusable as a family car for sightseeing, shopping etc

-If you are pricing a Ford the short box SRW with 20's is actually a little more than the dually but if you go with 18 inch wheels on the SRW short box you can save about $1260 over the dually long box.

-Stability is a non issue with the new F350 SRW with 20 inch wheels regardless of how stable the dually is. My guess is that the new GM 3500 SRW is more similar to the Ford but even though our 2010 Duramax SRW is quite impressive as a tow vehicle it feels significantly less substantial than the 2011 Ford when towing.

- The payload advantage of the dually becomes a big deal if you are planning on towing a 5'ver much over about 15,000 lbs.

-Because Ford requires that you go to a 3.73 axle in the dually vs the SRW there is a significant fuel savings with the SRW. The 20" wheel option requires that you go to a 3.55 ratio axle which will cost a little on fuel over the 3.31 axle. The GMC uses the same axle (3.73) for all their Duramax configurations and the difference in fuel economy is less significant whether you go duals or not.

What is the height difference in all the tire/rim choices from Ford.

Wheel size doesn't by itself affect power/economy..Tire height does.
Sometime in the past I looked at this and the Ford was requiring lower gears with taller tires and taller gears with shorter tires. So the net effect was pretty much nothing. Not sure if that is still the case.
abednego
Explorer
Aug 27, 2012
If you want to know what a truck will tow, go here:

Fifth Wheel Calculator

or here

Travel Trailer Calculator
Cummins12V98
Explorer III
Aug 27, 2012
smcrea wrote:
Cummins12V98 wrote:
Glenn West wrote:
My Mobile Suites has a pin weight of 4400#. That is rather much for 2 E rated tires.

My 36 MS has 4,500# pin wt. 4,400# are on the rear axle. My rear axle weight is 8,280# a nice load on 4 tires but two????? I see one guy here with the same rv as mine that his name starts with a R and ends with a U that thinks his red GM single rear wheel is perfectly safe.

Big rv, get a Dually and keep your family safe and others!

Thanks for the reply..

I'm struggling here.. so to help me I went to Holman Motors website and was looking at 5th wheels and sorted by weight with heaviest first.

http://www.holmanrv.com/types/fifth-wheels.aspx?s=true&page=1

To help a complete dummy like me get a perspective can someone tell me which 5'ers I would NOT be able to pull with a 3500 SRW... again sorting from the heaviest down?

Thanks for the help!

My opinion is stay away from anything over 34'. It is not just the weight it is ths size. Hold up a small pc of plywood to the wind then hold up a larger pc that is thinner but is the same wt as the smaller pc. You will get the idea.
smcrea
Explorer II
Aug 27, 2012
Cummins12V98 wrote:
Glenn West wrote:
My Mobile Suites has a pin weight of 4400#. That is rather much for 2 E rated tires.

My 36 MS has 4,500# pin wt. 4,400# are on the rear axle. My rear axle weight is 8,280# a nice load on 4 tires but two????? I see one guy here with the same rv as mine that his name starts with a R and ends with a U that thinks his red GM single rear wheel is perfectly safe.

Big rv, get a Dually and keep your family safe and others!

Thanks for the reply..

I'm struggling here.. so to help me I went to Holman Motors website and was looking at 5th wheels and sorted by weight with heaviest first.

http://www.holmanrv.com/types/fifth-wheels.aspx?s=true&page=1

To help a complete dummy like me get a perspective can someone tell me which 5'ers I would NOT be able to pull with a 3500 SRW... again sorting from the heaviest down?

Thanks for the help!
Cummins12V98
Explorer III
Aug 27, 2012
Glenn West wrote:
My Mobile Suites has a pin weight of 4400#. That is rather much for 2 E rated tires.

My 36 MS has 4,500# pin wt. 4,400# are on the rear axle. My rear axle weight is 8,280# a nice load on 4 tires but two????? I see one guy here with the same rv as mine that his name starts with a R and ends with a U that thinks his red GM single rear wheel is perfectly safe.

Big rv, get a Dually and keep your family safe and others!
smcrea
Explorer II
Aug 27, 2012
FYI, I'm pretty much settled on the Chevy 3500. Brand loyalty and a GREAT experience with my GMC Yukon 1500 had a part to play in that decision. I have however owned an F150 inline 6 in the past and LOVED it!..

Anyway I made the decision on that one and don't want to divert the discussion.

I have to admit that when we decided to get another truck immediately a BIG DUALLY sprang to mind and my reaction was "COOL" :)

But I'm now looking at practicalities of the DRW and please tell me if I'm on or off track here..

- As I said earlier the TT that we have now, we may keep for the foreseeable future. Maybe somewhere in the future we will move to a 5'er. But with our family of 5 I'm not sure if we would need a 5'er of humungous proportions!.. Would I be correct in saying that IF... IF sometime in the future we get a 5'er then the SRW 3500 would leave our options open except for the very biggest 5'ers? (this is the core question)

- I'm also considering that the Truck needs to morph into our family vacation car when we are away, and have dropped the trailer. We just came back from yellowstone so here is a good scenario.. you are driving along and your see that rare wild animal at the side of the road. Everyone on the road slams on the breaks and makes some amazingly dangerous maneuvers to get into the "pull in" to observe the animal. Those who have been to Yellowstone will understand! :)

When I say everyone that includes us :o

With the 1500 Yukon I can make it into that tight spot without trouble, but I can't see that happening in a DRW??? that sucker is just to BIG!.. I'm just using the Yellowstone animal sighting as an example ... I hope you know what I'm trying to say... the TV needs to also be the family car which ever way you look at it. And no matter how much I like the DRW it is starting to not make sense as far as bang for buck goes..or should I say (Ib's pin weight vs being a family car when on vacation.)

Please let me know what you think.. does anyone strongly disagree with my thinking or does it make sense?

FYI I have a similar discussion running about long vs short bed :-)

Thanks Again,

Steve
dfb
Explorer
Aug 27, 2012
Really easy... What will be the PIN Weight of the 5ver. If the pin weight cause the TV to exceed it's GVWR then you need the dually... It is not that hard...
blt2ski
Moderator
Aug 27, 2012
Glenn West wrote:
My Mobile Suites has a pin weight of 4400#. That is rather much for 2 E rated tires.

This depends upon the size of the tire! 4400 plus the wt of my old trucks RA when empty was 2200, so a total of 6600 maybe 7000 max on those two rear tires......probably a few LR E rated tires that can handle that amount. I can think of some LR F and G rated tires that will also handle that amount, along with more wt than typical pickup duals will handle!

Remember folks, make a single response post, someone may have a way to make it work! altho like in my case and examples, not stock options, but options none the less! If one can get tires rated to 10,500 lbs like a number of clss 8 trucks and trailers are using, single tires can be found to do what duals will do! one of these tires will carry more than or equal to some of our dual setups! Equal to the 4 215-85-16 LR E tires on my dually! My two 245-70-19.5 tires on the front of my navistar are good to around 11K lbs. So a few single tire set ups that will carry a 4400 lbs pin wt pretty easy!

Marty
Glenn_West
Explorer
Aug 27, 2012
My Mobile Suites has a pin weight of 4400#. That is rather much for 2 E rated tires.