Duramax tuner

[Lightning55]

Has anyone out there used a tuner/programmer on their Duramax? I tow a Jayco 37'FW with my 2013 Sierra 2500HD Duramax it does a good job but I'm wondering about doing some performance enhancements. I'm considering buying a Banks Automind 2 Programmer. Does anyone have any experience with this tuner or others? Reviews are all over the board so not sure which direction to go. It's got good power now, but more is always better and any improvement in fuel consumption would be great.

[ShinerBock]

Lantley wrote:
Yea I get it but once you stray away from the design parameters. Stuff happens!
You claim the extra heat is actually better, but if the entire system is not designed around the extra heat ultimately it's not better. It's a CEL and a headache.
A headache that those who like to tinker can handle, but its a headache for those who prefer to just drive without any unnecessary tinkering cannot.
I will never convince you that tuning is bad. In fact I don't believe it is entirely bad myself.
However I do believe that while tuning can certainly enhances performance and makes a vehicle more fun to drive. It also leads to unintended consequences that have to be compensated for via additional maintenance and repairs.

It is not actually that hot unless you are one that likes to get on it all the time on the highest level tune. If you stay on the lower level tow tunes, it does not get that hot even under constant load. The stock tune is so conservative because it has to keep emissions low and has to keep temps in check while towing it's highest rating. Well what if you are unloaded or never even come close to towing the 23k-30k that the stock tune was de-tuned to tow?

This is the reason why tuners make "tow tunes" all the way up to "performance tunes". The tow tunes have less power to keep EGT's in check under constant load. You are not suppose to tow with a performance tune unless you have the supporting mods that keep the temps in check. I have a 4 selection rotary switch on my dash that can go from my heavy tow tune, light tow tune, daily driving tune, and race tune on the fly. Which tune I run depends on what kind of load my truck is pulling. The more weight I am pulling the less power I can safely run unlike the stock tune which is for the heaviest tow rating no matter what and cannot be adjusted depending on load.

I have actually been saying something similar to what you said here for a long time. Tuning is not for everyone list like modding hot rods in the old days wasn't for everyone either. Not everyone could take a stock engine, modify it, and run it at Le Mans like Carroll Shelby did back in the old days. Since most things are electronic nowadays, a lot of it is done by computers than replacing hard parts. However, tuning does not create more power. Hard parts do. Tuning only unleashes the potential that is already there.

Some people are not comfortable with it or don't know enough about it and don't have the time to know more about it. When you tune or add power modifications, you are stepping out of the safety net of the manufacturer and it is up to you to monitor your truck instead of the computer doing it for you. Some people just don't want to do that and I fully understand which is why I say tuning/modifying is not for everyone. If you are not willing to take control from the computer and place the safety/reliability of your rig in your own hands, then tuning/modding is not for you.

[Lantley]

Yea I get it but once you stray away from the design parameters. Stuff happens!
You claim the extra heat is actually better, but if the entire system is not designed around the extra heat ultimately it's not better. It's a CEL and a headache.
A headache that those who like to tinker can handle, but its a headache for those who prefer to just drive without any unnecessary tinkering cannot.
I will never convince you that tuning is bad. In fact I don't believe it is entirely bad myself.
However I do believe that while tuning can certainly enhances performance and makes a vehicle more fun to drive. It also leads to unintended consequences that have to be compensated for via additional maintenance and repairs.

[ShinerBock]

Higher temps may even be better for the DPF since that would allow it to go into a passive regen more often instead of an active regen which injects diesel fuel on the exhaust stroke to get the DPF hot enough to burn off the ash.

[ShinerBock]

Lantley wrote:

ShinerBock wrote:

Lantley wrote:
So now you guys are coming full circle to make my point.
Be it emissions or transmissions something is likely to give or malfunction as a consequence of tuning.
Tuning ultimately increases maintenance and or repair cost. hat additional power creates other issues that I can do without.
Pick your poison, pay me now or pay me later. Experience has taught me tuning leads to unintended consequences that maybe minor or they maybe costly


Reliability and longevity are more important that fun to drive, although ShinerBock I do get your point, you enjoy the performance and fun tuning provides you and your willing to pay for it. Totally understand it,we all have are vices.
Every $$$ we earn does not need to be spent in a rational way. It's OK to spend a few $$$ for pleasure.
To those that enjoy tuning go for it, for those cheapskates like me be ready to pay for those unintended consequences if you tune.
At this point I simply rather drive my truck than tinker with it! Tuning leads to tinkering.

No, we are not coming full circle if you read my previous posts especially my post about piggy back modules versus actual custom tunes. Piggy back modules only add power and do nothing to help the transmission handle the added power. Custom tunes like I am talking about increase the max line pressure threshold, makes the shift points higher, and adjust the TC lockup to allow the transmission to handle the added power. It also makes the shifts more firm since the stock smooth shifts are harder on your clutches than a firm shift. With trans tuning, you don't have to sacrifice reliablity.

Case in point is my brother's old 2010 2500 CTD that he tuned/deleted at 50k and sold at 175k to a friend of his who is a fishing guide down in Rockport. His friend worked in SA and used the truck to drive his boat 160 miles down to the coast just about every weekend. Him and my brother mostly left it on the level two tune (that I posted earlier) when unloaded and level one when towing. My brother's friend ended up trading it in at 375k miles without one issue and being tuned(with a trans tune) for 325k miles.

I also have another friend who has an LMM Dumrax that he tuned/deleted within 25k miles. It currently has over 200k and is now being driven by his 18 year old son. Not one issue yet although he did put a FASS system on it to keep the fuel clean.

Point being, a proper tune with transmission tuning will make your truck just as if not more reliable than stock if driven responsibly. It will not if you are wanting to do 4wd boosted launches at the track or burn outs everywhere. Then again, stock will not last long doing that either. Piggy back modules don't tune the trans for the added power and you are taking a huge risk of premature trans failure with them. These used to be very common and were one of the reasons why tuning got such a bad rap because people would stack these modules on top of each other and drive it like they stole it without doing any supporting mods.

Of course there is always a limit to what something can handle and if you want to start going past 475 rwhp then you need to start doing supporting mods to handle the added power. Today's diesels can easily handle under 475 rwhp for a long time and hundreds of thousands of miles with the right engine/trans tuning and a sensible driver.

That custom tune maybe syncing with the transmission but what if anything is that custom tune doing to the emissions? How is the emissions system accounting for the increased power/heat?

Diesels run better and more efficient at high combustion temps. In fact, it is because of how efficient they run at these temps is the reason why the EGR is there to introduce spent exhaust gas into the intake to cool these combustion temps down in order to reduce NOx. This creates more soot, makes the engine less efficient, and less powerful all in the name of 2 g-hp/hr. It is also is not good for the longevity of your engine especially with the fuel/soot dilution in the oil.

Overseas in places like Europe, they do not have as strict NOx requirements as the US over there and many of the diesels are starting to come out without EGR's and just have two SCR/DEF systems like the "twin dosing SCR" systems from Cummins and VW in overseas markets. They essentially allow the engine to operate at peak efficiency and performance, and all emissions are taken care of afterwards.

As far as the tuners go, they are either turning off the EGR and just letting it emit a more NOx or forcing the SCR/DEF system to pick up the slack similar to the "twin dosing SCR" systems overseas. Most if not all of the emission intact tuning is still not 100% EPA compliant and is mainly for those who want to keep their emissions on and return it to stock when they need to. The system can easily handle the heat. After all, it handles the 1,500F plus for tens of minutes when it is re-genning so I doubt the 1,200F coming out of the engine at moments of full load will harm it. Although, that 1,200F is coming out of the manifold, it is generally 200-400F lower once it comes out of the turbo hand has another 2-3 ft to go to get to the DPF.

[Lantley]

ShinerBock wrote:

Lantley wrote:
So now you guys are coming full circle to make my point.
Be it emissions or transmissions something is likely to give or malfunction as a consequence of tuning.
Tuning ultimately increases maintenance and or repair cost. hat additional power creates other issues that I can do without.
Pick your poison, pay me now or pay me later. Experience has taught me tuning leads to unintended consequences that maybe minor or they maybe costly


Reliability and longevity are more important that fun to drive, although ShinerBock I do get your point, you enjoy the performance and fun tuning provides you and your willing to pay for it. Totally understand it,we all have are vices.
Every $$$ we earn does not need to be spent in a rational way. It's OK to spend a few $$$ for pleasure.
To those that enjoy tuning go for it, for those cheapskates like me be ready to pay for those unintended consequences if you tune.
At this point I simply rather drive my truck than tinker with it! Tuning leads to tinkering.

No, we are not coming full circle if you read my previous posts especially my post about piggy back modules versus actual custom tunes. Piggy back modules only add power and do nothing to help the transmission handle the added power. Custom tunes like I am talking about increase the max line pressure threshold, makes the shift points higher, and adjust the TC lockup to allow the transmission to handle the added power. It also makes the shifts more firm since the stock smooth shifts are harder on your clutches than a firm shift. With trans tuning, you don't have to sacrifice reliablity.

Case in point is my brother's old 2010 2500 CTD that he tuned/deleted at 50k and sold at 175k to a friend of his who is a fishing guide down in Rockport. His friend worked in SA and used the truck to drive his boat 160 miles down to the coast just about every weekend. Him and my brother mostly left it on the level two tune (that I posted earlier) when unloaded and level one when towing. My brother's friend ended up trading it in at 375k miles without one issue and being tuned(with a trans tune) for 325k miles.

I also have another friend who has an LMM Dumrax that he tuned/deleted within 25k miles. It currently has over 200k and is now being driven by his 18 year old son. Not one issue yet although he did put a FASS system on it to keep the fuel clean.

Point being, a proper tune with transmission tuning will make your truck just as if not more reliable than stock if driven responsibly. It will not if you are wanting to do 4wd boosted launches at the track or burn outs everywhere. Then again, stock will not last long doing that either. Piggy back modules don't tune the trans for the added power and you are taking a huge risk of premature trans failure with them. These used to be very common and were one of the reasons why tuning got such a bad rap because people would stack these modules on top of each other and drive it like they stole it without doing any supporting mods.

Of course there is always a limit to what something can handle and if you want to start going past 475 rwhp then you need to start doing supporting mods to handle the added power. Today's diesels can easily handle under 475 rwhp for a long time and hundreds of thousands of miles with the right engine/trans tuning and a sensible driver.

That custom tune maybe syncing with the transmission but what if anything is that custom tune doing to the emissions? How is the emissions system accounting for the increased power/heat?

[ShinerBock]

Lantley wrote:
So now you guys are coming full circle to make my point.
Be it emissions or transmissions something is likely to give or malfunction as a consequence of tuning.
Tuning ultimately increases maintenance and or repair cost. hat additional power creates other issues that I can do without.
Pick your poison, pay me now or pay me later. Experience has taught me tuning leads to unintended consequences that maybe minor or they maybe costly


Reliability and longevity are more important that fun to drive, although ShinerBock I do get your point, you enjoy the performance and fun tuning provides you and your willing to pay for it. Totally understand it,we all have are vices.
Every $$$ we earn does not need to be spent in a rational way. It's OK to spend a few $$$ for pleasure.
To those that enjoy tuning go for it, for those cheapskates like me be ready to pay for those unintended consequences if you tune.
At this point I simply rather drive my truck than tinker with it! Tuning leads to tinkering.

No, we are not coming full circle if you read my previous posts especially my post about piggy back modules versus actual custom tunes. Piggy back modules only add power and do nothing to help the transmission handle the added power. Custom tunes like I am talking about increase the max line pressure threshold, makes the shift points higher, and adjust the TC lockup to allow the transmission to handle the added power. It also makes the shifts more firm since the stock smooth shifts are harder on your clutches than a firm shift. With trans tuning, you don't have to sacrifice reliablity.

Case in point is my brother's old 2010 2500 CTD that he tuned/deleted at 50k and sold at 175k to a friend of his who is a fishing guide down in Rockport. His friend worked in SA and used the truck to drive his boat 160 miles down to the coast just about every weekend. Him and my brother mostly left it on the level two tune (that I posted earlier) when unloaded and level one when towing. My brother's friend ended up trading it in at 375k miles without one issue and being tuned(with a trans tune) for 325k miles.

I also have another friend who has an LMM Dumrax that he tuned/deleted within 25k miles. It currently has over 200k and is now being driven by his 18 year old son. Not one issue yet although he did put a FASS system on it to keep the fuel clean.

Point being, a proper tune with transmission tuning will make your truck just as if not more reliable than stock if driven responsibly. It will not if you are wanting to do 4wd boosted launches at the track or burn outs everywhere. Then again, stock will not last long doing that either. Piggy back modules don't tune the trans for the added power and you are taking a huge risk of premature trans failure with them. These used to be very common and were one of the reasons why tuning got such a bad rap because people would stack these modules on top of each other and drive it like they stole it without doing any supporting mods.

Of course there is always a limit to what something can handle and if you want to start going past 475 rwhp then you need to start doing supporting mods to handle the added power. Today's diesels can easily handle under 475 rwhp for a long time and hundreds of thousands of miles with the right engine/trans tuning and a sensible driver.

[Lantley]

So now you guys are coming full circle to make my point.
Be it emissions or transmissions something is likely to give or malfunction as a consequence of tuning.
Tuning ultimately increases maintenance and or repair cost. hat additional power creates other issues that I can do without.
Pick your poison, pay me now or pay me later. Experience has taught me tuning leads to unintended consequences that maybe minor or they maybe costly

Reliability and longevity are more important that fun to drive, although ShinerBock I do get your point, you enjoy the performance and fun tuning provides you and your willing to pay for it. Totally understand it,we all have are vices.
Every $$$ we earn does not need to be spent in a rational way. It's OK to spend a few $$$ for pleasure.
To those that enjoy tuning go for it, for those cheapskates like me be ready to pay for those unintended consequences if you tune.
At this point I simply rather drive my truck than tinker with it! Tuning leads to tinkering.

[ShinerBock]

jtilles wrote:
Something to keep in mind as you look into "emissions on" tuning. Emissions-on tuning does not mean it'll pass a smog check in any of the 17 states that follow CARB's guidelines. Emissions-on tuning like Duramaxtuner is just that... they left the emissions equipment on the vehicle. Sure, you still have a DPF and SCR system intact... but is the truck emitting excessive NOx? Most tuners have no idea and/or don't care. As long as they make more horsepower, they're happy. DPF life shortened thanks to over-sooting? Also, not a concern.

The Banks Derringer carries a CARB E.O. That means you can drive into any smog check facility and pass the test. With the Derringer, intake, and exhaust you'll gain 98 hp. Yes, 98. This is dyno tested by more than a dozen third-party performance shops. A quick YouTube search will reveal the dyno testing.

Oh, and that dead pedal you're describing, Derringer, combined with the new PedalMonster throttle sensitivity controller will get rid of dead pedal completely.

You'll also find a Facebook group with over 3,000 Derringer owners who have millions of combined miles.

Since the EGR is turned off with "emissions-on" tuning, you are not rerouting exhaust gas back into the intake to cool down combustion temps in order to lower NOx. Cooling down combustion temps actually created more soot because the fuel is not completely burned and therefor clogging up your VG turbo and DPF with more soot.

The US NOx limits in the US are extreme compared to other countries which is why manufacturers like Cummins can get away with not having an EGR and run the SCR/DEF system more like the "emission-on" tuners do in the US. This cannot be done in the US due to how much of a hard-on the EPA has on diesels even though gas engines emit way more greenhouse gases. Also, NOx is only harmful in the lower atmosphere in highly populated places(think Southern California/New York) and is not an issue in less populated places where it has a chance to dissipate into the upper atmosphere where it is good for the ozone. However, every diesel owner has to abide by California's rules even though most of us don't live such highly populated places.

As far as the Darringer. The weakest link of a diesel pickup is the transmission. A diesel can easily handle an extra hundred horsepower or more and still go hundreds of thousands of miles. The same cannot be said for the transmission. Does the Darringer also tune the transmission (ie increase max line pressure, higher shift points, better TC lockup strategy) to handle the added power? I can grantee that a transmission replacement will cost a lot more than a DPF cleaning or replacement.

[jtilles]

Something to keep in mind as you look into "emissions on" tuning. Emissions-on tuning does not mean it'll pass a smog check in any of the 17 states that follow CARB's guidelines. Emissions-on tuning like Duramaxtuner is just that... they left the emissions equipment on the vehicle. Sure, you still have a DPF and SCR system intact... but is the truck emitting excessive NOx? Most tuners have no idea and/or don't care. As long as they make more horsepower, they're happy. DPF life shortened thanks to over-sooting? Also, not a concern.

The Banks Derringer carries a CARB E.O. That means you can drive into any smog check facility and pass the test. With the Derringer, intake, and exhaust you'll gain 98 hp. Yes, 98. This is dyno tested by more than a dozen third-party performance shops. A quick YouTube search will reveal the dyno testing.

Oh, and that dead pedal you're describing, Derringer, combined with the new PedalMonster throttle sensitivity controller will get rid of dead pedal completely.

You'll also find a Facebook group with over 3,000 Derringer owners who have millions of combined miles.

[edatlanta]

My old 2006 LBZ is bone stock and going to stay that way. It just rolled over 210,000 and tows my 5'er plenty good enough for me.

And it has been paid for for a LONG TIME!

[ShinerBock]

Lantley wrote:
Shiner Bock you said a lot and I get your point.
But For me I don't need to have any driving fun, if the transmission is going to be my potential breaking point?
I'll keep my dead pedal and all of my parameters synced to the OEM specs. vs. new improved and fun to drive!
I having enough fun with the factory tune

That is just it. I don't find any of the factory tuning from any of the big three's trucks that fun and they need to rev to high to get power for what I am used to. As you can see on the dyno pulls bellow(this is with my stock turbo), I get stock power levels at much lower rpms which makes the power more usable for me and way more fun to drive. Imagine having the max horsepower and torque of the stock tune, but at much lower rpm and more to spare if needed.

The lowest line is the stock tune which ramps up slowly to keep PM in check. The other lines are the various different power levels of my tune and the lowest of the 4 is my "heavy tow tune" that gives me way more power and torque at a lot less rpm than stock does even though their peak numbers are not to far from each other. This makes a huge difference when towing.

I have not done any dyno's pulls with my new turbo and pulse manifold yet. It would probably be about 50-75 rwhp or so more than the max the stock turbo was able to do in the pic below. I will also mention that I put about 30-35k miles a year on my vehicles so having them drive like I want them to is important to me. Others may choose to spend their money on other things like motorcycles or luxurious RV's. I choose to spend them making my vehicles more fun to drive or better off road in the case of my Jeep.

[Lantley]

Shiner Bock you said a lot and I get your point.
But For me I don't need to have any driving fun, if the transmission is going to be my potential breaking point?
I'll keep my dead pedal and all of my parameters synced to the OEM specs. vs. new improved and fun to drive!
I having enough fun with the factory tune

[ShinerBock]

Yes and no. Many of today's engines have a lot of unreliable parts all in the name of meeting emissions. From high pressure fuel pumps, variable geometry turbos, to EGR systems. In many cases, tuning makes these engines more reliable by either allowing you remove/replace these parts with more reliable ones or turn them off. There is also fuel maps in the stock form specifically designed to meet emissions even though it harms the engine. One being holding on to higher gears at low rpms which increases EGT's considerably.

I think a lot of people think of tuning and they automatically have 800 rwhp engines in their head with pistons scattered everywhere. Most that tune will not ever take it that high and will likely stay below the 500 rwhp realm which is plenty safe for all of the diesels (internals and all) that have been built in the last decade. You can run 500 rwhp unloaded and switch it back down to 400 rwhp towing heavy and easily have that engine last for hundreds of thousands of miles with no issues. The stock tuning is meant to keep the engine safe and emissions legal towing it's max tow rating(30k lbs) and you can safely increase power output when not towing at these ranges without harming the engine.

Transmissions are going to be your breaking point when you drive at 500 rwhp especially if you have a stock 68RFE or Allison behind your diesel. The Ford 6R140 and Aisin can easily handle 500 rwhp without needing any upgrades. For the 68RFE, you will need to spend another $700 on a new valve body that can handle higher line pressure and you should be good with the right TCM tune and smart driving. Not sure what the Allison needs and I can't speak for the new 10 speed units.

One thing that tuning modern diesels that could not be done on older diesels is transmission tuning. You can alter shift points and TC lockup strategy to your liking and how you use your truck instead of the generic tune meant for everyone. While the stock trans tune that shifts into higher gears at lower speeds may be fine for a flat lander, it may not be ideal for someone who has to constantly go up grades. Having the torque converter lockup when you want it to based on how you use your truck is another benefit.

I implore anyone who has never driven a custom tuned 2013+ diesel truck. They are fun to drive especially when you remove a lot of the "dead pedal" on the factory tuning which is very prevalent in Ram diesels. Do I need 500 rwhp? No, and I even use all 500 rwhp 99.9% of the time, but the added fueling/timing/boost makes the rpms I do drive in(between 1,200-2,000) a lot more fun to drive in than stock since it adds about 150 hp over stock in those rpms so I don't need as high of rpms to get up and go as I did in stock form. The truck feels a lot lighter than it is and I get about 2 mpg better fuel economy.

[Lantley]

I played the tuning game back when I had a 7.3 PSD. Tuning was great for that engine.Tuning released the power of that 7.3.
Fast forward to my 2019 Duramax and I feel no need to add power. I have plenty of OEM power.
Experience has taught me that adding power ultimately causes more wear and tear which leads to reliability issues when things break.
I'll stick with the stock tune and leave the tuning to those that like to work on their truck vs. those that simply like to drive their truck