F350 payload dispute

[bighog01]

New F350 SRW that I'm considering says 3326 lbs on the payload sticker with a 11500 GVWR. I asked for this info before the dealer had it brought in from another dealer. Salesperson and fleet manager say that its actually 4164 lbs because the factory invoice says the trucks shipping weight is 7336 lbs. Now I'm sure that's weighed with minimal diesel I. The tank. Isn't the door sticker the law? I always thought so. I'm not obligated to buy this truck and I have no deposit on it. Right now I'm not feeling comfortable hitching my Fuzion to it.

[TomG2]

spoon059 wrote:

TomG2 wrote:
Spin it any way you like. I have learned not to argue with moderators or point out their "inconsistencies".

Are you sure about that?

Yes. Once he explained that as moderator he chooses do define payload and vehicle loading ratings in his own terms, I quit.
"When I was asked to moderate, I said I would not tow a max manufacture rating stance as you and others point out."

When 10,000 pounds suddenly becomes fiction, I quit. When the subject wanders off into the speed rating for skid steer loaders, I quit.

Why do you ask? Stirring the pot?

[spoon059]

TomG2 wrote:
Spin it any way you like. I have learned not to argue with moderators or point out their "inconsistencies".

Are you sure about that?

[Bedlam]

The door jam sticker is payload with no occupants. The payload sticker in some glove boxes assume 150 lbs in every seating position which could reflect 900 lbs less if you have crew cab with two bench seats.

[toedtoes]

Bedlam wrote:
His warranted payload is actual weight minus door sticker GVWR.

His legal payload is actual weight minus the weight he registered with the DMV.

Actual weight will not be the same as dry weight or shipping weight since drivers weigh differently and the amount of fuel in your tank will vary with consumption.

Isn't the driver's weight part of the payload not the actual weight? The vehicle may have a different driver at any given time, so that weight is variable.

Fuel could go either way so you would have to choose whether to include a full tank in the "vehicle weight" or in the "payload" and calculate accordingly.

In my opinion, I would use the weight of the vehicle unloaded with a full fuel tank for the calculation. Subtract that from the GVWR to get the payload - which would include driver, passengers, cargo, etc. From what I've understood, that is how the sticker's payload number is calculated (although the fuel tank may not be included).

[Bedlam]

Weekend Warrior did add third axle to their 28’ tag, but they were not the only ones that learned at their customers’ expense. We almost bought one of the tandem axle 28 footers because they had huge “promotion” on that model. I was just within specification with my 22’ version and frequently at 11,500 lbs GTW.

[blt2ski]

Bedlam,
I'm recalling a toy hauler trailer which had to add an axle. IIRC, engineer design spec was too low. I believe this is why Nu-Wa went with a tandem option along with 3 axles scrub too much and from what I've heard are a PITA to tow with. Warrior brand or something with warrior in it..
MH with issues, Tiffin based on Dick and Sandy's issue would be my swag there. They had initially engineer and tire patch issues.

I got in trouble once with an equipment trailer. Asked for 5000 lb capacity, got a trailer with two 2500 lb axles, put my case skid steer on it. Tire the thing to threads. Learned real quick not to trust advertised spec after that!

Marty

[blt2ski]

OP has asked if the door sticker is law, it is not, it his paid for registration that is the law.
Just as I've stated many times. My 2000 C2500 has a paid for registration of 8000 lbs. I am legal to 8000 lbs. IF I run down that road at the 8600 lb door sticker, I am illegal, and over weight by 600lbs!

My twin son's, one has a Toyota Tacoma, the other a Chevrolet 1500. Both.also have 8000 lb registrations. Both are legal to 8000 lbs. Neither maxes their trucks to this ALL the time. If they go over the door stickers, they are legal! There insurance covers.them! Pretty sole from this states standpoint, would assume, most others are equal, ASSUMING they want federal funds for roads, they can not enforce less.than limits in FBL's.

Marty

[ShinerBock]

toedtoes wrote:


Read the question. The issue he had was that he believed the payload was based on GVWR minus dry weight but the dealer says it's GVWR minus shipping weight. His question is actually asking which is correct - i.e., is the vehicle weight used for the calculation what is on the sticker or what is on the dealer invoice as "shipping weight".

Yes, he mentions legality, but he's not looking for the convoluted discussion that's been going on about what is legal - he's wanting to know what numbers are used to calculate the payload because he doesn't want to exceed it.

I did read the question. The only sentence in his post with a question mark was..... "Isn't the door sticker the law?"

[Bedlam]

His warranted payload is actual weight minus door sticker GVWR.

His legal payload is actual weight minus the weight he registered with the DMV.

Actual weight will not be the same as dry weight or shipping weight since drivers weigh differently and the amount of fuel in your tank will vary with consumption.

[toedtoes]

ShinerBock wrote:

toedtoes wrote:

Actually, if you re-read the OP, you'll see that his question was whether the payload is determined using the GVWR on the tag OR the dry shipping weight on the dealer's paperwork.

The legality comment was just added for "filler". So all this arguing has been for naught.

bighog01 wrote:
New F350 SRW that I'm considering says 3326 lbs on the payload sticker with a 11500 GVWR. I asked for this info before the dealer had it brought in from another dealer. Salesperson and fleet manager say that its actually 4164 lbs because the factory invoice says the trucks shipping weight is 7336 lbs. Now I'm sure that's weighed with minimal diesel I. The tank. Isn't the door sticker the law? I always thought so. I'm not obligated to buy this truck and I have no deposit on it. Right now I'm not feeling comfortable hitching my Fuzion to it.

Read the question. The issue he had was that he believed the payload was based on GVWR minus dry weight but the dealer says it's GVWR minus shipping weight. His question is actually asking which is correct - i.e., is the vehicle weight used for the calculation what is on the sticker or what is on the dealer invoice as "shipping weight".

Yes, he mentions legality, but he's not looking for the convoluted discussion that's been going on about what is legal - he's wanting to know what numbers are used to calculate the payload because he doesn't want to exceed it.

[ShinerBock]

TomG2 wrote:


After taking a five hundred mile detour covering everything from Class A's to skid steer loaders, now it is the OP that is important?? There must be some politicians on here.

This is why I say you are the only one not understanding it. The question was what is legal. The Class A's and Skid steer were just used in examples of what is or isn't legal. They were not used to detour the OP's question, but rather give examples from real life objects that would better help explain things.

Although, at this point I think it has become a "last word" debate because you are saying the same thing even after Marty and I have explained it multiple times.

[Bedlam]

blt2ski wrote:
Most of these folks will be screwed BIG time if motor homes etc start getting the real weight laws enforced on them!
For us with pickups and trailers, it could hit.those pulling really heavy.Like cummins12v, 99.9% of posters on here are way.under legal weights.
Marty

It was amazing to see the spread when talking to people. Some had no idea of their setups weighed and were not concerned about it since they were able to handle the motor home without problems. Some were actually afraid of pulling into a weigh station when someone was there because they did not want to deal with the consequences. Others knew their weights and adjusted what they carried or changed out to wider tires.

I cannot find the information now but there was a manufacturer that had to retrofit tag axles at great expense into their coaches due to being overweight.

I remember a few toyhaulers had to go to triple axles in later models due to their actual GVW, but I'm not sure if they were at the tire patch limits or just axle capacity.

[transamz9]

I think Tundra owners need to ban together and sue Toyota because they advertised on video that the Tundra could tow the space shuttle. I mean a newby might get the wrong impression of what their truck can handle. I believe GM did a 747 too. I mean what are these companies doing? LOL

[TomG2]

ShinerBock wrote:

Well the OP of this thread did not ask "What can I tow or haul?". He seemed to already have a good idea of that from his initial post.

After taking a five hundred mile detour covering everything from Class A's to skid steer loaders, now it is the OP that is important?? There must be some politicians on here.

[ShinerBock]

TomG2 wrote:

I have no problem understanding legal regulations. I still think that most newbies who come on here with the typical, "What can I tow or haul?" type questions are not looking for only legal opinions. The moderator confirmed that "legal" may not always be "Smart and safe" Some of you do not seem to understand that. Most of us are not smarter than the company engineers and lawyers who come up with factory ratings. Some, think they are smarter.

Well the OP of this thread did not ask "What can I tow or haul?". He seemed to already have a good idea of that from his initial post.

He did, however, ask what was legal thinking that the door sticker was the law. Hence the reason why were were taking about what is legal and what is not legal. Marty gave great examples of each and most here seemed to understand that they were just that, examples.