Fifthwheel ordered - now I need new truck - advice please

[Hedgehog]

We sold our diesel pusher and just ordered a 2016 Montana 3160RL. The fifthwheel has a dry weight of 11,700 and a pin weight of 2570. I know I need a 1 ton and prefer to stay with single rear wheel because this will be my every day driver. What I am torn between is the gas vs. diesel debate. I know that all of the big 3 can tow the weight I need with the proper axle ratio but in the case of ford, I would have to order because I can't find a truck on the lot with 4.30 gears. in the past, I owned a fifthwheel and towed it with a 6.0 power stroke so I know that diesel tows better. What is making me nervous about buying another diesel is the reliability. I see issues all over forums about problems with def systems, injection pumps, injectors, etc. this will be my everyday driver to get me to work everyday along with towing the new fifthwheel under 2,000 miles a year. Another thing that is important to me is resale value. I put approx. 15,000 per year and usually trade them at under 80,000 miles. I know most of the time I will be under warranty but breakdowns are still a major aggregation, especially if it's your only vehicle.
Are the newer diesels that problematic?
Do the newer diesels have better resale or do they loose that advantage due to the cost factors of repairs once out of warranty?
Is the diesel worth the investment when 90% of its life will be just driving it for transportation and doing Home Depot runs, etc.
I'm not trying to start a gas vs. diesel war because I like them both and if the epa wasn't involved in these vehicles, I already know what I would buy. Even a friend of mine that works as the service manager at a local ford dealership told me that a lot of there fleet customers are switching to gas. Why?

[IdaD]

Greene728 wrote:
OP
In a nutshell without all the banter, a gas will be just fine but a diesel will pull better. It's nothing more than getting either one configured in a manner and equipped to handle your 5th wheel. If only towing 2000mi or so a year, then the upfront cost and added maintenance probably isn't worth it. Unless you just really want a diesel and don't mind the extra cash up front (pretty substantial) and added cost of ownership (not a big deal) I believe you will be fine with either one. And as someone else pointed out, if you plan to trade at roughly 80,000mi, then the diesel seems kinda pointless to me considering your needs and plans.

I'm convinced the money in gas vs diesel is a wash. You pay more up front and a little more in maintenance with the diesel, pay a little less for fuel and get all the extra expense back on resale. So it'll cost you a little more up front but it comes out as a wash in the end.

As far as towing goes, I would agree a gas truck would be sufficient in this scenario, especially in the northeast. It'll tow different but that doesn't mean it can't do it.

One other point is that personal preferance plays a role. I could have gotten by fine with a 6.4, but I just wanted a diesel more so that's what I bought. It's no different than somebody paying more because they want the features that come with a Longhorn (except most of that money doesn't come back on resale).

[transferred]

BurbMan wrote:

transferred wrote:
Please don't lead the OP down the miserable road of trying to tow a 12k empty 5th wheel with a gas-powered truck, it's his hard earned money. Same goes for "Greene728".

Now you're just talking out your a$$. Read the original post, the OP tows 2k miles per year in the northeast. The rest of the time he's using the truck for a daily driver. He's not running loads of artichokes up and down the grapevine every day.

It's obvious you have never towed with a gas engine, and the more you post the more it shows how little you know about the subject.

Countdown till this thread is closed as yet another "gas vs. diesel".....

Not just the defensiveness of the gas owners, but also their rudeness. Did your folks teach you no manners, "burbman"? I have towed with a gas SUV, max was round 7k on a Land Cruiser. It did fine and for four-figure weights occassional towing a gas engine is fine. A 12k DRY 5th wheel (so at least 14k), does not make a gas vehicle a wise buy...if you already own one and its within limits that's a different matter.

If the thread gets closed, look to your language and lack of civility for the reason why. Good day.

[BurbMan]

transferred wrote:
Please don't lead the OP down the miserable road of trying to tow a 12k empty 5th wheel with a gas-powered truck, it's his hard earned money. Same goes for "Greene728".

Now you're just talking out your a$$. Read the original post, the OP tows 2k miles per year in the northeast. The rest of the time he's using the truck for a daily driver. He's not running loads of artichokes up and down the grapevine every day.

It's obvious you have never towed with a gas engine, and the more you post the more it shows how little you know about the subject.

Countdown till this thread is closed as yet another "gas vs. diesel".....

[Greene728]

transferred wrote:

ib516 wrote:

transferred wrote:

BurbMan wrote:

ib516 wrote:

transferred wrote:
Diesel is the only engine for towing more than 5,000 lbs.

LOL

LOL X2! I tow 9000 lbs and pass folks going uphill, and that's with the old 4 speed transmission.

They were cruising nicely at 55 until they let it upshift to 3rd, then never recovered that momentum. Again, the OP lives in MA, there are no grades like this in the northeast.

I exaggerated with 5k but I if you go past 10k gassers are downright dangerous on 5% grades, they simply can't do it and keep moving with the flow of traffic. As for you passing people uphill, well you're either similar to the diesel guys who claim they get 19mpg towing or you're trailer is not 9k. You're truck can safely tow 9k, but it isn't going up more than a molehill at >50mph.

You have no idea what you're talking about.

I have towed my 12k RV (just under 21k GCW, yes I have weighed it) through the Cdn Rockies and haven't experienced what they did in the video. I suspect it has to do with the extreme altitude. I have towed up to 8000' with no RPM limiting. My truck will, and has, held 65-70 mph towing up 7% grades in 2nd gear at ~5400 RPM.

The 6.4L Hemi has 410hp. It makes that power at high RPM. When I need to, I run it at that RPM.

I could post videos where my truck and a SRW 3500 Cummins powered twin both towed a 41' 14k 5er from 0-60 in 22 seconds (they were nearly identical times) but I doubt facts would overturn your preconceived ideas.

Preconceived ideas? That would be a video I posted, not idle claims. I don't see any facts in your post. Please don't lead the OP down the miserable road of trying to tow a 12k empty 5th wheel with a gas-powered truck, it's his hard earned money. Same goes for "Greene728".

You found one video backing up your claim. There are plenty of other videos (as well as members right here in this very thread) that can prove otherwise. If you want the proof use Google. You certainly didn't have any problems finding that video. A Ford 350 with the 6.2 and 4.30 rear end or Dodge/Chevy configured the same can and will do the job. I will state again, will the diesel do it easier? Yes. Is the diesel a better suited towing engine. Well absolutely. Hell, everybody knows that. But, the point I'm trying to make is a gas will do it too. What I think most people are failing to see and or realize is the OP stated that he only tows roughly 2k a year. And trades prior to 80k or so. Can you honestly sit here and tell me (or the OP) that he MUST have a diesel for that???
If he said full timing, traversing the country, 20k a year, etc, then I too would say Diesel. But for his use, weights, and being a DD, gas is more logical. Period! Only exception to this to me is if the person just has money to burn and the added cost of the diesel is a non issue and it won't be missed. If that's the case....have at it!!! But if any economic sense is put into the decision and every dollar matters, then I stand my ground.
Best of luck with your decision OP.
Im done.

[spud1957]

ib516 wrote:

Turtle n Peeps wrote:

Hedgehog wrote:
Does anyone know why the 6.2 gas in the ford has less horsepower in the models over 10,000 gvw

Duty cycle. Same thing as medium duty trucks have the same engine in them as a class 3 truck but is detuned to less HP.

Not true. Its actually noise related. A Ford Powertrain engineer answered that question a while back on one of the Ford forums. The engines are identical under and over 10k gvwr, but over 10k they are rated at a lower RPM for noise reasons. Dumb yes but true.

Link

Link 2

X2 Identical horse power and torque at identical RPMs!!!

[transferred]

Grit Dog- well said.

[transferred]

ib516 wrote:

transferred wrote:

BurbMan wrote:

ib516 wrote:

transferred wrote:
Diesel is the only engine for towing more than 5,000 lbs.

LOL

LOL X2! I tow 9000 lbs and pass folks going uphill, and that's with the old 4 speed transmission.

They were cruising nicely at 55 until they let it upshift to 3rd, then never recovered that momentum. Again, the OP lives in MA, there are no grades like this in the northeast.

I exaggerated with 5k but I if you go past 10k gassers are downright dangerous on 5% grades, they simply can't do it and keep moving with the flow of traffic. As for you passing people uphill, well you're either similar to the diesel guys who claim they get 19mpg towing or you're trailer is not 9k. You're truck can safely tow 9k, but it isn't going up more than a molehill at >50mph.

You have no idea what you're talking about.

I have towed my 12k RV (just under 21k GCW, yes I have weighed it) through the Cdn Rockies and haven't experienced what they did in the video. I suspect it has to do with the extreme altitude. I have towed up to 8000' with no RPM limiting. My truck will, and has, held 65-70 mph towing up 7% grades in 2nd gear at ~5400 RPM.

The 6.4L Hemi has 410hp. It makes that power at high RPM. When I need to, I run it at that RPM.

I could post videos where my truck and a SRW 3500 Cummins powered twin both towed a 41' 14k 5er from 0-60 in 22 seconds (they were nearly identical times) but I doubt facts would overturn your preconceived ideas.

Preconceived ideas? That would be a video I posted, not idle claims. I don't see any facts in your post. Please don't lead the OP down the miserable road of trying to tow a 12k empty 5th wheel with a gas-powered truck, it's his hard earned money. Same goes for "Greene728".

[Grit_dog]

You already know you need a diesel to comfortably tow a camper that size unless you just plan on putting around the flatlands.
If you trade at 80k mi you're looking at about $35-40k private party for a cherry loaded truck value.
Obvious,y you're not too concerned about the $ if you're dumping a modern diesel at that mileage.
Any of the big 3 will kick @ss and take names. I'm less of a Ford guy by a long shot but you should t expect any issues in rthose low of miles with any of them.
Id lean towards the Ram in your position for many reasons but one that I can't quantify is that the rear springs on the 3500 Rams are hella stout. I've put trounce weight on a new Ram 3500 that buried a F350 and it just leveled the truck out. Best combo out there right now IMO. Dmax 2nd but not by much. Pstroke is a screamer but currently sitting in an almost 20 yr old chassis. Wait a year if your gonna get a ford and get a new one or get one of the other 2 and tow with ease!

[Turtle_n_Peeps]

ib516 wrote:

Turtle n Peeps wrote:

Hedgehog wrote:
Does anyone know why the 6.2 gas in the ford has less horsepower in the models over 10,000 gvw

Duty cycle. Same thing as medium duty trucks have the same engine in them as a class 3 truck but is detuned to less HP.

Not true. Its actually noise related. A Ford Powertrain engineer answered that question a while back on one of the Ford forums. The engines are identical under and over 10k gvwr, but over 10k they are rated at a lower RPM for noise reasons. Dumb yes but true.

Link

Link 2

Which came first, the chicken or the egg.

Same with the Vetts of the early 70's playing games with the insurance companies. They would rate them at a much lower RPM then the engines were capable of. GM's official line was the engines made less power. We know that was not true but never the less that was their line.


Much like Fords official line saying it's because of EPA noise requirements but I guarantee they don't want to have HD F350's making the same power of lets say a raptor. And it's because of duty cycle........or EPA noise requirements. :W

[ib516]

Turtle n Peeps wrote:

Hedgehog wrote:
Does anyone know why the 6.2 gas in the ford has less horsepower in the models over 10,000 gvw

Duty cycle. Same thing as medium duty trucks have the same engine in them as a class 3 truck but is detuned to less HP.

Not true. Its actually noise related. A Ford Powertrain engineer answered that question a while back on one of the Ford forums. The engines are identical under and over 10k gvwr, but over 10k they are rated at a lower RPM for noise reasons. Dumb yes but true.

Link

Link 2

[ib516]

transferred wrote:

BurbMan wrote:

ib516 wrote:

transferred wrote:
Diesel is the only engine for towing more than 5,000 lbs.

LOL

LOL X2! I tow 9000 lbs and pass folks going uphill, and that's with the old 4 speed transmission.

They were cruising nicely at 55 until they let it upshift to 3rd, then never recovered that momentum. Again, the OP lives in MA, there are no grades like this in the northeast.

I exaggerated with 5k but I if you go past 10k gassers are downright dangerous on 5% grades, they simply can't do it and keep moving with the flow of traffic. As for you passing people uphill, well you're either similar to the diesel guys who claim they get 19mpg towing or you're trailer is not 9k. You're truck can safely tow 9k, but it isn't going up more than a molehill at >50mph.

You have no idea what you're talking about.

I have towed my 12k RV (just under 21k GCW, yes I have weighed it) through the Cdn Rockies and haven't experienced what they did in the video. I suspect it has to do with the extreme altitude. I have towed up to 8000' with no RPM limiting. My truck will, and has, held 65-70 mph towing up 7% grades in 2nd gear at ~5400 RPM.

The 6.4L Hemi has 410hp. It makes that power at high RPM. When I need to, I run it at that RPM.

I could post videos where my truck and a SRW 3500 Cummins powered twin both towed a 41' 14k 5er from 0-60 in 22 seconds (they were nearly identical times) but I doubt facts would overturn your preconceived ideas.

[Turtle_n_Peeps]

Hedgehog wrote:
Does anyone know why the 6.2 gas in the ford has less horsepower in the models over 10,000 gvw

Duty cycle. Same thing as medium duty trucks have the same engine in them as a class 3 truck but is detuned to less HP.

[Hedgehog]

Does anyone know why the 6.2 gas in the ford has less horsepower in the models over 10,000 gvw

[Golden_HVAC]

I went with a gas engine motorhome back in 1997, and am very happy with the results. It will out-pull most DP's on a mountain grade because the overall weight is only around 16,500 for the RV and another 3,500 for the car that I pull behind it. The HP/weight ratio is pretty good on a gas motorhome.

Oil changes are a LOT cheaper!

No fumes stuck to your hands after refueling.

Fuel filter was once in 20 years, around the 40,000 mile mark. Spark plugs on the new Fords are at 100,000 miles.

The 6.2L pulls great. I would suggest getting the 3.73 or 4.10 rear axle ratio. If you want the engine to scream at 55 MPH, then use a lower gear, not lower rear end ratio! It will allow much better mileage while not towing.

Like you said, in 5-8 years, you will want to upgrade, well before paying off the extra cost of that diesel engine.

The gas truck will be a little lighter, so more ability to tow with!

The 6.2L owned by many pulls a trailer great! So will the diesel 6.7L. Still it is nice to save $10,000 on the upfront purchase!

Good luck,

Fred.