We sold our diesel pusher and just ordered a 2016 Montana 3160RL. The fifthwheel has a dry weight of 11,700 and a pin weight of 2570. I know I need a 1 ton and prefer to stay with single rear wheel because this will be my every day driver. What I am torn between is the gas vs. diesel debate. I know that all of the big 3 can tow the weight I need with the proper axle ratio but in the case of ford, I would have to order because I can't find a truck on the lot with 4.30 gears. in the past, I owned a fifthwheel and towed it with a 6.0 power stroke so I know that diesel tows better. What is making me nervous about buying another diesel is the reliability. I see issues all over forums about problems with def systems, injection pumps, injectors, etc. this will be my everyday driver to get me to work everyday along with towing the new fifthwheel under 2,000 miles a year. Another thing that is important to me is resale value. I put approx. 15,000 per year and usually trade them at under 80,000 miles. I know most of the time I will be under warranty but breakdowns are still a major aggregation, especially if it's your only vehicle.Are the newer diesels that problematic?Do the newer diesels have better resale or do they loose that advantage due to the cost factors of repairs once out of warranty?Is the diesel worth the investment when 90% of its life will be just driving it for transportation and doing Home Depot runs, etc.I'm not trying to start a gas vs. diesel war because I like them both and if the epa wasn't involved in these vehicles, I already know what I would buy. Even a friend of mine that works as the service manager at a local ford dealership told me that a lot of there fleet customers are switching to gas. Why?

Dry weight really has little bearing here. How much do you think you will add to it? See, kind of hard to answer. So instead look at the trailers GVWR. You may not hit it, but better to err on the side of caution.From its GVWR use 20% as its pin weight. My guess the fiver your looking at will have a 15-16000 GVWR and a pin weight around 3500 pounds. I doubt your going to find a SRW truck that will have 7000+RAWR, but your welcome to look. Also, I do not think you will find any gas truck today capable of towing 15K around.

if you can aford it, check out a used Freightliner Sport Chassic Truck

I drive my 2014 Ram 3500 SRW with a Cummins daily with no issues at all. It is a fine daily driver. Prior to this truck I had a 2008 Ram 3500 SRW Cummins that I also drove daily with no problems at all. As for towing it's another non issue. Our trailer has a GVWR of 15,500 amd last time I rolled across the cat scales I was under on every weight. RAWR is 7,000 on the Ram SRW.

It can be done with a SRW 3500/350. If you pack 2,000# you will just under 14,000# GVW, with in the capacity of a SRW 3500/350.To the diesel question, I drive an older diesel with the first cut of electronics. Mine has been good, I sure don't hear many issues other then dirty diesel causing high pressure issues.I would look at the brand specific forum sites for the big three.

The Montana fifthwheel has a GVWR of 16,000#. I know for a fact it will never weigh that much. I never carry water and we only go camping for a week at a time. I would estimate the trailer would weigh in between 13,000 and 13,500 at most and even that is estimating high.The number one thing I am looking for is reliability. I don't want to be on vacation thinking about when is my truck gonna breakdown like I did with the 6.0 psd. I think the big 3 have the engines pretty much figured out but the emissions is the add on that ruins them. If your truck goes into limp mode due to a emissions related issue, will it have enough power to get you and your trailer off the road?

Fifthwheel ordered - now I need new truck - advice please

IdaD
Explorer
Jun 03, 2015
Greene728 wrote:
OP
In a nutshell without all the banter, a gas will be just fine but a diesel will pull better. It's nothing more than getting either one configured in a manner and equipped to handle your 5th wheel. If only towing 2000mi or so a year, then the upfront cost and added maintenance probably isn't worth it. Unless you just really want a diesel and don't mind the extra cash up front (pretty substantial) and added cost of ownership (not a big deal) I believe you will be fine with either one. And as someone else pointed out, if you plan to trade at roughly 80,000mi, then the diesel seems kinda pointless to me considering your needs and plans.

I'm convinced the money in gas vs diesel is a wash. You pay more up front and a little more in maintenance with the diesel, pay a little less for fuel and get all the extra expense back on resale. So it'll cost you a little more up front but it comes out as a wash in the end.

As far as towing goes, I would agree a gas truck would be sufficient in this scenario, especially in the northeast. It'll tow different but that doesn't mean it can't do it.

One other point is that personal preferance plays a role. I could have gotten by fine with a 6.4, but I just wanted a diesel more so that's what I bought. It's no different than somebody paying more because they want the features that come with a Longhorn (except most of that money doesn't come back on resale).
transferred
Explorer
Jun 03, 2015
BurbMan wrote:
transferred wrote:
Please don't lead the OP down the miserable road of trying to tow a 12k empty 5th wheel with a gas-powered truck, it's his hard earned money. Same goes for "Greene728".

Now you're just talking out your a$$. Read the original post, the OP tows 2k miles per year in the northeast. The rest of the time he's using the truck for a daily driver. He's not running loads of artichokes up and down the grapevine every day.

It's obvious you have never towed with a gas engine, and the more you post the more it shows how little you know about the subject.

Countdown till this thread is closed as yet another "gas vs. diesel".....

Not just the defensiveness of the gas owners, but also their rudeness. Did your folks teach you no manners, "burbman"? I have towed with a gas SUV, max was round 7k on a Land Cruiser. It did fine and for four-figure weights occassional towing a gas engine is fine. A 12k DRY 5th wheel (so at least 14k), does not make a gas vehicle a wise buy...if you already own one and its within limits that's a different matter.

If the thread gets closed, look to your language and lack of civility for the reason why. Good day.
BurbMan
Explorer II
Jun 03, 2015
transferred wrote:
Please don't lead the OP down the miserable road of trying to tow a 12k empty 5th wheel with a gas-powered truck, it's his hard earned money. Same goes for "Greene728".

Now you're just talking out your a$$. Read the original post, the OP tows 2k miles per year in the northeast. The rest of the time he's using the truck for a daily driver. He's not running loads of artichokes up and down the grapevine every day.

It's obvious you have never towed with a gas engine, and the more you post the more it shows how little you know about the subject.

Countdown till this thread is closed as yet another "gas vs. diesel".....
Greene728
Explorer
Jun 03, 2015
transferred wrote:
ib516 wrote:
transferred wrote:
BurbMan wrote:
ib516 wrote:
transferred wrote:
Diesel is the only engine for towing more than 5,000 lbs.

LOL

LOL X2! I tow 9000 lbs and pass folks going uphill, and that's with the old 4 speed transmission.

They were cruising nicely at 55 until they let it upshift to 3rd, then never recovered that momentum. Again, the OP lives in MA, there are no grades like this in the northeast.

I exaggerated with 5k but I if you go past 10k gassers are downright dangerous on 5% grades, they simply can't do it and keep moving with the flow of traffic. As for you passing people uphill, well you're either similar to the diesel guys who claim they get 19mpg towing or you're trailer is not 9k. You're truck can safely tow 9k, but it isn't going up more than a molehill at >50mph.

You have no idea what you're talking about.

I have towed my 12k RV (just under 21k GCW, yes I have weighed it) through the Cdn Rockies and haven't experienced what they did in the video. I suspect it has to do with the extreme altitude. I have towed up to 8000' with no RPM limiting. My truck will, and has, held 65-70 mph towing up 7% grades in 2nd gear at ~5400 RPM.

The 6.4L Hemi has 410hp. It makes that power at high RPM. When I need to, I run it at that RPM.

I could post videos where my truck and a SRW 3500 Cummins powered twin both towed a 41' 14k 5er from 0-60 in 22 seconds (they were nearly identical times) but I doubt facts would overturn your preconceived ideas.

Preconceived ideas? That would be a video I posted, not idle claims. I don't see any facts in your post. Please don't lead the OP down the miserable road of trying to tow a 12k empty 5th wheel with a gas-powered truck, it's his hard earned money. Same goes for "Greene728".

You found one video backing up your claim. There are plenty of other videos (as well as members right here in this very thread) that can prove otherwise. If you want the proof use Google. You certainly didn't have any problems finding that video. A Ford 350 with the 6.2 and 4.30 rear end or Dodge/Chevy configured the same can and will do the job. I will state again, will the diesel do it easier? Yes. Is the diesel a better suited towing engine. Well absolutely. Hell, everybody knows that. But, the point I'm trying to make is a gas will do it too. What I think most people are failing to see and or realize is the OP stated that he only tows roughly 2k a year. And trades prior to 80k or so. Can you honestly sit here and tell me (or the OP) that he MUST have a diesel for that???
If he said full timing, traversing the country, 20k a year, etc, then I too would say Diesel. But for his use, weights, and being a DD, gas is more logical. Period! Only exception to this to me is if the person just has money to burn and the added cost of the diesel is a non issue and it won't be missed. If that's the case....have at it!!! But if any economic sense is put into the decision and every dollar matters, then I stand my ground.
Best of luck with your decision OP.
Im done.
spud1957
Explorer
Jun 03, 2015
ib516 wrote:
Turtle n Peeps wrote:
Hedgehog wrote:
Does anyone know why the 6.2 gas in the ford has less horsepower in the models over 10,000 gvw

Duty cycle. Same thing as medium duty trucks have the same engine in them as a class 3 truck but is detuned to less HP.

Not true. Its actually noise related. A Ford Powertrain engineer answered that question a while back on one of the Ford forums. The engines are identical under and over 10k gvwr, but over 10k they are rated at a lower RPM for noise reasons. Dumb yes but true.

Link

Link 2

X2 Identical horse power and torque at identical RPMs!!!
transferred
Explorer
Jun 03, 2015
Grit Dog- well said.
transferred
Explorer
Jun 03, 2015
ib516 wrote:
transferred wrote:
BurbMan wrote:
ib516 wrote:
transferred wrote:
Diesel is the only engine for towing more than 5,000 lbs.

LOL

LOL X2! I tow 9000 lbs and pass folks going uphill, and that's with the old 4 speed transmission.

They were cruising nicely at 55 until they let it upshift to 3rd, then never recovered that momentum. Again, the OP lives in MA, there are no grades like this in the northeast.

I exaggerated with 5k but I if you go past 10k gassers are downright dangerous on 5% grades, they simply can't do it and keep moving with the flow of traffic. As for you passing people uphill, well you're either similar to the diesel guys who claim they get 19mpg towing or you're trailer is not 9k. You're truck can safely tow 9k, but it isn't going up more than a molehill at >50mph.

You have no idea what you're talking about.

I have towed my 12k RV (just under 21k GCW, yes I have weighed it) through the Cdn Rockies and haven't experienced what they did in the video. I suspect it has to do with the extreme altitude. I have towed up to 8000' with no RPM limiting. My truck will, and has, held 65-70 mph towing up 7% grades in 2nd gear at ~5400 RPM.

The 6.4L Hemi has 410hp. It makes that power at high RPM. When I need to, I run it at that RPM.

I could post videos where my truck and a SRW 3500 Cummins powered twin both towed a 41' 14k 5er from 0-60 in 22 seconds (they were nearly identical times) but I doubt facts would overturn your preconceived ideas.

Preconceived ideas? That would be a video I posted, not idle claims. I don't see any facts in your post. Please don't lead the OP down the miserable road of trying to tow a 12k empty 5th wheel with a gas-powered truck, it's his hard earned money. Same goes for "Greene728".
Grit_dog
Navigator
Jun 03, 2015
You already know you need a diesel to comfortably tow a camper that size unless you just plan on putting around the flatlands.
If you trade at 80k mi you're looking at about $35-40k private party for a cherry loaded truck value.
Obvious,y you're not too concerned about the $ if you're dumping a modern diesel at that mileage.
Any of the big 3 will kick @ss and take names. I'm less of a Ford guy by a long shot but you should t expect any issues in rthose low of miles with any of them.
Id lean towards the Ram in your position for many reasons but one that I can't quantify is that the rear springs on the 3500 Rams are hella stout. I've put trounce weight on a new Ram 3500 that buried a F350 and it just leveled the truck out. Best combo out there right now IMO. Dmax 2nd but not by much. Pstroke is a screamer but currently sitting in an almost 20 yr old chassis. Wait a year if your gonna get a ford and get a new one or get one of the other 2 and tow with ease!
Turtle_n_Peeps
Explorer
Jun 03, 2015
ib516 wrote:
Turtle n Peeps wrote:
Hedgehog wrote:
Does anyone know why the 6.2 gas in the ford has less horsepower in the models over 10,000 gvw

Duty cycle. Same thing as medium duty trucks have the same engine in them as a class 3 truck but is detuned to less HP.

Not true. Its actually noise related. A Ford Powertrain engineer answered that question a while back on one of the Ford forums. The engines are identical under and over 10k gvwr, but over 10k they are rated at a lower RPM for noise reasons. Dumb yes but true.

Link

Link 2

Which came first, the chicken or the egg.

Same with the Vetts of the early 70's playing games with the insurance companies. They would rate them at a much lower RPM then the engines were capable of. GM's official line was the engines made less power. We know that was not true but never the less that was their line.

Much like Fords official line saying it's because of EPA noise requirements but I guarantee they don't want to have HD F350's making the same power of lets say a raptor. And it's because of duty cycle........or EPA noise requirements. :W
ib516
Explorer II
Jun 03, 2015
Turtle n Peeps wrote:
Hedgehog wrote:
Does anyone know why the 6.2 gas in the ford has less horsepower in the models over 10,000 gvw

Duty cycle. Same thing as medium duty trucks have the same engine in them as a class 3 truck but is detuned to less HP.

Not true. Its actually noise related. A Ford Powertrain engineer answered that question a while back on one of the Ford forums. The engines are identical under and over 10k gvwr, but over 10k they are rated at a lower RPM for noise reasons. Dumb yes but true.

Link

Link 2