Forum Discussion

Explorer

Mar 23, 2016

First cool weather trip in my new (to me) pop up

Last summer I finally bought a pop-up (a 2003 Starcraft 2406). I had wanted one since my parents sold the one we had when I was a teen (I was 18 when they sold it, I was 45 when I finally bought my own). Because I had done many summers of pop-up camping as a kid, I thought I could ignore the advice given to so many newbies to buy cheap (though I did) in order to be sure you like pop-up camping. I knew I liked it. Well, 27 years is a long time and things can change and I'm glad I went with an older used model instead of new. Don't get me wrong, there are definitely things I like about it, but I really love tent camping and I'm not sure the benefits of the pop-up outweigh other options.

I got it to make it easier to camp during the heat and humidity of MD and southern summers and to let me get out more in cold weather. Well, after this trip (I'm camping in Williamsburg, VA) I prefer a tent in cool/chilly temperatures. It got to 50 last night with moderate winds. I've been out in a tent in much colder and windier weather and it was more pleasant. The large tent walls of the pop-up just catch the wind like a sail, my dome tents feel much more stable in the wind. The pop-up is also very drafty (no less so than my 3-season tents). Now, I did forget to bring a space heater and I couldn't get the furnace to light (I need to do some troubleshooting, though it is probably the supply, I didn't get the tank refilled nor did I check it before I left), but I can do either a space heater (at an electric site) or a propane heater (I have a Mr. Heater Portable Buddy heater) with the tent too.

I'm also not happy with the set up time. It takes me longer to set up and take down the camper than it does a tent. The longer more pain in the rear aspects of setting up camp (setting up the outdoor cooking and living space) is just as much a thing with my pop-up as it was with a tent so it doesn't really provide any benefit in these aspects.

There are several things I like. It was nice to have the AC last summer, and it does extend my usable camping days. My middle age back loves having the bunk to sleep on instead of a thin sleeping pad (I have a good pad, the pad itself is reasonably comfortable, but getting up from the ground can be tough some days). When in for the night or starting the day, having a comfortable bench and table to sit at is nice (I'm sitting at my dinette on the computer now, and when I'm camping with friends it has been a nice place to sit and play games). It makes storage in transport easier (though I replaced my sedan which was limiting in that respect with an SUV/CUV in order to be able to tow so that won't be much of a problem tent camping now either) and I can store some of my camping gear in the pop-up which is nice for the next year or two while I'm still in an apartment and I'll possibly be in a condo for a few years when I buy. The fridge is nice, not having to deal with ice and a cooler (at least on trips short enough that the fridge is big enough) is very nice. The model I bought has a shower/cassette toilet and while I haven't yet needed to use it, it is nice to know it is there should I end up at a campground with subpar facilities (or if I take it someplace without facilities).

Of course, some of what I like can also be had with a tent. When I bought my pop-up, I had thought about getting a portable AC unit to extend my tent camping during the summer, I was also thinking about getting a cot (I already have a nice air bed) which around here, would be safe from late April until early October. I had a cheap portable toilet and bathroom tent set up for when the facilities were unusable and I was shopping camp showers (though the only time the campground facilities were so bad that I needed it was before I bought any of it). Of course, transporting these won't be an issue anymore with the SUV/CUV (though it would have been with my Ford Fusion), but all that extra gear could pose a storage problem in my apartment (I'm trying to avoid renting a storage unit). Of course the cot and airbed are only usable part of the year while the pop-up bunks are safe year round, and the pop-up "bathroom" is much nicer than my tent-camping "bathroom".

One big advantage of a pop-up over other camping trailers is ease of storage. Well, the place that will probably be my next apartment complex doesn't allow them in the parking lot, and they charge $165 a month to rent a garage. If I don't rent the garage I'd need to pay an RV storage lot anyway.

So, does anyone here have some advice on things I can do to make the pop-up more livable? It is nice to have the sheltered and air conditioned/heated space to play board or card games when camping with friends, especially when it rains. Should sell the pop-up and go back to the tent and buy an AC unit (having to rent a storage unit wouldn't be any more money than having to rent an RV storage space)? Before I bought my pop-up, I seriously considered buying the cot, AC and a Springbar or Kodiak canvas tent and I'm wondering if it would have been more (or at least similarly) comfortable for a lot less money. Would I be best off with a tent for when that's what I want and trading my pop-up for a hard-sided R-pod, TAB or teardrop for the best of both worlds?

Now, a lot of this post has been complaining. Don't get me wrong, overall I do like the pop-up. I'm just a bit disappointed in some aspects of it (especially when camping in cooler weather). While I'm not making any decisions right away, I'm not sure if it was the right decision or a mistake. Does anyone have any ideas which would make it more clearly a right decision? Of course, come Memorial Day weekend I may only be seeing the positives (around here Memorial Day weekend should be perfect pop-up weather: cool evenings perfect for the tent sides and opening it up, with daytime temps that can be hot and perfect for the AC).

Folding Trailers

Deleted_per_op
Explorer
Mar 26, 2016
Jeff, I'm not sure if there are different brands of bunk end fans. We saw the ones at the dealer that were inside the popup on the lot. We didn't like them and didn't look further. A 'real fan' just seemed more flexible - we could put it anywhere and could choose among many models to find the most quiet.
rexlion
Explorer
Mar 26, 2016
One way to warm up your bunk sleeping experience would be an Electro-warmth 12V mattress pad under your sleeping bag. Heat rises, so the mattress pad is more efficient than an electric blanket on top. It can run off your trailer's battery. Best to have a solar panel or something to recharge the battery, though, if using it for more than 2 nights in a row.

One reason why I like my Black Cat heater is, its radiant heat tends to be directional so I can point it toward the bed and get more effect if I need it.
Jeff10236
Explorer
Mar 25, 2016
TooMany and Mike, are there different brands of bunk fans (I think there are)? Which brand did you each use? I'm wondering if that might have made the difference in the very different experiences you both had with the fans.
Mike_Up
Explorer
Mar 25, 2016
I guess I had different experiences. I loved my bunk fans. I thought they moved decent air amounts and could be placed inside the bunk. I also liked having a light in one unit. I wouldn't be without them. Just my opinion.
Deleted_per_op
Explorer
Mar 25, 2016
Jeff,
We always found the bunk end fans noisy and mostly useless for moving air. I just got the most quiet small table fan I could find. 3-speed oscillating cost about $10 or so.... maybe $20. If you're going to camp without electric hookups, get a 10" Endless Breeze box fan (12v). It's quiet and moves a lot of air. Only draws an amp or so on low speed. With both, the key advantage is we can put them anywhere and aren't limited to hanging from one spot on the bunk end.
Mike_Up
Explorer
Mar 24, 2016
Also it's much easier to setup a tent campsite by car lights. Trying to back in a camper in pitch black is a major pain.

In fact, If I can't get the camper backed in when it's day light, we don't go or wait another day. Of course a smaller trailer is easier but still a pain in the dark. Then setup of a pop up is all by flashlight.
Jeff10236
Explorer
Mar 24, 2016
So, I went to Target and got a ceramic heater (on clearance for $14.99, woo hoo). It got outright hot in the box of my pop-up, but in the bunk areas it was still cool (but substantially warmer than the night before). It was enough to sleep comfortably in my sleeping bag. I had thought about getting bed end fans before I bought my pop-up, but in summer camping the AC blows straight into the bunks so I thought I didn't need it. I guess they may be a good idea. I think they may make sleeping in cool weather in the pop-up outright comfortable when paired with a space heater.

The combination of a more comfortable night of sleep and being another day removed from set up, I'm starting to like my pop-up a bit more again.

I agree with you, but DW doesn't

I guess that's one of the advantages of being single. I currently have 4 (each serves a different purpose) and I'm thinking about getting a couple more (a 3-man tent for kayak camping and a Springbar or Kodiak because I've wanted one for years). I don't need to worry about whether someone else things 4 or more sounds like too many.

Even if I do keep my pop-up (or "upgrade" to a hard sided A-frame or TAB), tents have their advantages. I already knew they were better for outright cold weather, and now I know they have advantages on cooler fall/spring nights as well. Also, when I want to be able to leave straight from work, I can put a tent in the back of my Sorento, but I can't park a camper at work.

Edit (4:20PM):
So, take down was pretty quick and easy. Quicker than a tent (only because of the struggles to get the tents back into the almost always too small stuff sack). That at least partially makes up for the tougher set up. With the heater and future bunk end fans (as mentioned earlier) I think I'll be happy with the camper. I'll be setting up again in a few days to do a few things with the camper that need done (check on the propane, furnace and water heater, interior cleaning) so I'll soon see if it becomes easier.

That said, a good night sleep in warm enough conditions last night and the easier take-down, I'm much happier than I was in my initial post. I'm especially happy since I got 21.9mpg towing on the return trip (less stop and go). No way I'd get that with a TAB or other taller trailer with my Sorento, and absolutely no way I'd get that with a vehicle with a higher tow rating to enable larger trailers (not to mention the loss of MPG in day to day driving, I get 26-28 highway, 20 or so city, and 22-24 in day to day driving/commuting).
Deleted_per_op
Explorer
Mar 24, 2016
Jeff10236 wrote:
TooManyTents (great forum name BTW, though there really is no such thing...),

I agree with you, but DW doesn't ;)
rexlion
Explorer
Mar 24, 2016
It's always a trade-off of some sort. Always will be.

We tented when the kids were growing up. I didn't care for tenting but I grew up camping with my parents (in a truck camper and then a motorhome), so I longed for the day when I'd have an RV. Finally DW and I got a Starcraft popup (about '99 or 2000) and took a 10 day trip. We didn't like the setup and teardown process, nor the canvas snapping in the wind and all that. So we sold it after the trip. Finally in 2004 we bought a 23' Rockwood travel trailer, and that was the way to travel. I've had a series of small TTs since then. It's great to be able to stop anywhere, walk to the TT, open the door, hop in and do whatever. No setup at all for lunch, a nap, or a bathroom break. At the CG it's just a matter of checking level, hooking water/electric if applicable, and starting dinner.

I always wanted to try an A frame, so I picked up a 4 year old Aliner Ranger 12 and kept it for a year. It was easy to tow, fast to set up just like they say, and super easy to heat/cool. My dislikes were centered in quality of the unit, a number of small, nuisance-type issues like the window that sometimes wouldn't close all the way and the door that always scraped the lower threshold. And the countertop sat too low for comfort (although I'm just 5'8") so my back would get sore just from washing dishes. So I sold it.

Unfortunately business has slowed and money is tighter lately, and I am (like you) transitioning to a new career... believe it or not, I am getting certified for teaching secondary math. For this summer I plan to use my molded-fiberglass Li'l Hauley cargo trailer to carry my camping stuff and for sleeping in inclement weather (it does have 3 small screened windows), and I bought a cheap Coleman Instant Cabin tent so I can try tenting once more. My big must-have purchase was a Coleman ComfortSmart deluxe folding cot, which feels surprisingly good (yeah, no more ground-floor bed for me!) and I can use it in either the tent or the trailer. For heat, I like using the Coleman BlackCat catalytic heater. I already had a porta-pot and a camp stove. The thought of a window A/C unit zipped into the doorway of the tent in hot weather has crossed my mind.

This setup will do me for a while. Eventually, though, I have my sights set on a small, molded-fiberglass TT. They tow almost as easily as a popup. Sturdy bodies. No seams to leak, so there's no roof maintenance and no way a water leak can cause structural damage (other than the floor). Jeff, you might want to have a look at a Scamp or Casita sometime; a 13' is less than 2000 lbs and might fit your solo needs just fine.
Mike_Up
Explorer
Mar 23, 2016
I also owned a 2406 but it was a 2007.

I also tent camp.

Tent camping is definitely less comfortable. Even though I have additional tie out points on my Eureka tents, in high wind, the walls blow in about 1'. My shower/toilet tent bends over in high winds. I need to use my rigid pole shower/toilet tent instead but it takes longer setting up. :) In colder temps I use my Big Buddy Heater but not while sleeping.

I like to be comfortable so my set up times is about the same for either. Packing time is definitely longer for the tent since I use duffle bags and need to go through them all to replenish paper plates, plastic ware and the such. Pop Up, everything is stored in a cabinet or canvas hanging pantry.

Shower and water setup is really time consuming on the 2406 since cassette toilet isn't tied in with the campers water system, and water heater is NOT DSI.

My 2406 was in like new shape at all times, so the furnace would literally cook you out of the trailer if you had it set to high, and that was with temps in the 30s.

Things I hated about that model after living in it after several trips was the U dinette. I don't ever want to own another!! No space to sit and no leg room, compared to a standard dinette. Corners are comfortable though. Did I mention that the stupid water heater wasn't DSI and the pilot was always blowing out! And it was a pain to get lit! Didn't care for the toilet since it wasn't connected to the water system. Hated having to constantly fill it like a potta potti.

The worst, was that Aqualon material leaked like not even being there. We had a stream of water pouring in from the corner seams of "BOTH" bunkends. At different times but the stream was the width of a pencil and soaked the bed and my wife. No happy wife, no happy life! While I had some drips from poorly sealed tent seams or condensation in my previous cheaper tents (Eureka tents are water tight), never got soaked and most drips were tolerable.

What I loved about the 2406 over the tents was that I had large comfortable beds, cabinets, a dinner table, running water, warm or cool dwelling according to season, a microwave, indoor stove, refrigerator, and a TV for rainy days, and an indoor toilet.

What I love about the Eureka tents, CHEAP, can be put anywhere, DRY, semi comfortable with air mattress or wide cot, and spacious enough for a chair, table, duffle bags, and a large cot.

What I love about my current travel trailer, EVERYTHING. Complete comfort with easy setup.

What I don't like about it, the fact I need a special space on my property to store it, that I need a specially equipped 1/2 ton truck with enough wheelbase, payload, tow capacity, and hitch receiver rating to tow it safely, and the much higher upkeep costs of caulking and pressure testing to guarantee no water intrusion, plates and insurance, extra gas to tow it, and that I can't get into some of the more scenic campsites I had with my smaller trailers. Also leveling is much more time consuming since I have dual axles now. Twice the lynx and the time to get both wheels on them while in sandy or none level soil.

The fact is though, if I want my family to go camping, I HAVE TO HAVE a TT. :) Wife won't do tents or Pop Ups now.

BTW, giving up an indoor shower and hot water, my Previous Rockwood camper was more comfortable and leak free. BUT it was built like a piece of cr@p and fell apart in the first year. That's why I bought the Starcraft 2406.