First TC purchase, please advise

[work2fish]

Hi Folks,

You have a great forum here. I am a middle-aged geezer who, at 51 and still camping in tents, has decided I need to be a bit more comfortable for these old bones and back.

I've been spending the past few weeks reading as much as I can and have learned a lot. Last summer, I traded in my F-150 and bought a new to me one ton truck in preparation for a truck camper at some point.

I found one for sale, a 2013 Palomino Bronco B-1251 SB that has never been used, and from what I can determine it looks like a pretty good deal. However, I know nothing about what to look for. I've read enough to know that Palomino may not be the best brand in terms of fit and finish/quality, but I just don't have $20K lying around to invest in something that I'm not even sure I will have the time to use very often.

The camper appears to have the main features I am looking for: inside wet bath, popup, lightweight, etc. I am planning to take a look at the camper on Saturday morning and am wondering what I should be looking for? What would you say are the limitations of the Palomino Bronco versus the other popup camper lines? Since it looks like this model does not have a grey water tank, does that mean the 7 gal black water tank holds both? How well does that work and does it severely limit the length of time spent camping before needing to visit the dump station?

Thanks in advance for any help or advice you can provide,

[billtex]

You sound like me 10-12 yrs ago! I'll tell yoou our experience.

work2fish wrote:
Hi Folks,

I'm back again. I've been doing a lot of looking at campers and have a realized that decent used and reasonably priced popups are pretty hard to come buy. I had settled on a newer Outfitter, and have seen a few come up for sale online, but they seem to disappear quickly. The good thing about the delay is that this has given me some time to consider exactly what I am looking for in a camper as well as investigate the cheapest way for me to finance it.

These days I have been leaning more toward a light hard-sided camper like the Lance 825. As I think I mentioned, I have a 2011 Ford 1-ton diesel shortbed 4X4 and I am also pulling a boat. The hard-sides seem to have a bit more room and are a little bit nicer inside.

Here are a few issues I have considered, please feel free to let me know the flaws in my thinking(!) 🙂 :

1) One of the reasons I am considering a hard-side is that I don't like the small door on the popups. I can foresee a day in the near future when this will become an issue for me in terms of my mobility. The Outfitter seemed to have a bigger door which is one of the things that led me to consider it.
2) I have a 13 year old son who I will be fishing with. He is currently 5'8" and it looks like he will grow to be in the 6'+ range. Many of the popup dinette beds will be too short. I have not measured the Lance yet, but I am guessing it will be longer. There may also be times in which I am bringing one of his friends.I want to keep our Son with us as long as possibel.
Agree-we just moved to a single slide out for this reason. Want to keep our Son with us as long as possible. He often brings a Friend. Check the dinette bed size for sure
3) I need something that is light enough that I can occasionally take off road, say to a lake that has less than ideal access, or near a mountain stream. I am somewhat concerned about the higher clearance required for a hard-side but it doesn't appear that the Outfitter popup is that much lower.

4) I want to stay around 2600-2700 pounds wet because I am pulling a boat, I will frequently be driving in the mountains and I would generally want to be conservative about my truck's weight limit (3400 lbs in payload). I am willing to make sacrifices on storage, tank sizes, etc. in order to accommodate this.
Tank size can be important. Large tanks= less hassle
5) I do want a wet bath, but when I was looking at popups I have gone back and forth on the cassette toilet versus built-in tanks. From what I can find, either may work for me and one just gets used to it. Of course, the hard-sides usually don't give a person the option. A friend of mine told me that he dumps his camper toilet tank directly into his sewer at home via the outside access port and that this is pretty straightforward. Of course, one issue that I would need to consider about that is that he lives on a couple acres of land and I live in a residential neighborhood. What do others think?
I think Northstar makes a hardside with cassette. They both have
+/-. Cassette = very small tank
6) Since there are times I will have to pack up camp in order to pull the boat in or out of the water, I decided that a hard side would be less of a hassle than lowering the top. The other benefit is that I could camp "icognito" and without drawing attention to the fact that I am sleeping in a camper someplace where this may attract attention.
Agree7) I don't have a lot of driveway space for storage. In fact, I was thinking that I may need to park the truck under the camper when it is not attached. It is not the best option, but I will not move my truck very often as I usually use it primarily for recreation.

😎 I have one of those "tri-fold" bed covers that is made up of three sections that fold up. Is it possible to fold it all the way up and still load the camper on the truck? I realize that my visibility will be blocked if I do this but is looks to me like that the small window that looks through the camper will not provide much visibility anyway. Since there are times I will just be taking my boat to the lake, it would be nice to just leave the topper on full-time if possible.
I dont think this will work...9) I note that the Lance has only one battery and one propane tank. For the first issue, I would definitely install solar, and for the second I could easily carry an extra propane tank in the boat. I am guessing that my longest camping trip, at least initially, will be five days or so.

10) I have grown accustomed to my tailgate mounted backup camera on my truck. It would be nice to have a backup camera option that connects to my existing cable that goes to the camera on the tailgate and can be attached to the back of the camper. Does such a thing exist?
You can get a camera on the TCI welcome your thoughts and advice, have I forgotten anything critical? Thanks in advance to everyone who has made comments about their Lance 825's and popups, I have scoured the forum and have come across several helpful posts that have helped me ask the right questions.

I look forward to the day when I can post the first picture of my rig!

Cheers,
Mike

[work2fish]

Hi Folks,

I'm back again. I've been doing a lot of looking at campers and have a realized that decent used and reasonably priced popups are pretty hard to come buy. I had settled on a newer Outfitter, and have seen a few come up for sale online, but they seem to disappear quickly. The good thing about the delay is that this has given me some time to consider exactly what I am looking for in a camper as well as investigate the cheapest way for me to finance it.

These days I have been leaning more toward a light hard-sided camper like the Lance 825. As I think I mentioned, I have a 2011 Ford 1-ton diesel shortbed 4X4 and I am also pulling a boat. The hard-sides seem to have a bit more room and are a little bit nicer inside.

Here are a few issues I have considered, please feel free to let me know the flaws in my thinking(!) 🙂 :

1) One of the reasons I am considering a hard-side is that I don't like the small door on the popups. I can foresee a day in the near future when this will become an issue for me in terms of my mobility. The Outfitter seemed to have a bigger door which is one of the things that led me to consider it.

2) I have a 13 year old son who I will be fishing with. He is currently 5'8" and it looks like he will grow to be in the 6'+ range. Many of the popup dinette beds will be too short. I have not measured the Lance yet, but I am guessing it will be longer. There may also be times in which I am bringing one of his friends.

3) I need something that is light enough that I can occasionally take off road, say to a lake that has less than ideal access, or near a mountain stream. I am somewhat concerned about the higher clearance required for a hard-side but it doesn't appear that the Outfitter popup is that much lower.

4) I want to stay around 2600-2700 pounds wet because I am pulling a boat, I will frequently be driving in the mountains and I would generally want to be conservative about my truck's weight limit (3400 lbs in payload). I am willing to make sacrifices on storage, tank sizes, etc. in order to accommodate this.

5) I do want a wet bath, but when I was looking at popups I have gone back and forth on the cassette toilet versus built-in tanks. From what I can find, either may work for me and one just gets used to it. Of course, the hard-sides usually don't give a person the option. A friend of mine told me that he dumps his camper toilet tank directly into his sewer at home via the outside access port and that this is pretty straightforward. Of course, one issue that I would need to consider about that is that he lives on a couple acres of land and I live in a residential neighborhood. What do others think?

6) Since there are times I will have to pack up camp in order to pull the boat in or out of the water, I decided that a hard side would be less of a hassle than lowering the top. The other benefit is that I could camp "icognito" and without drawing attention to the fact that I am sleeping in a camper someplace where this may attract attention.

7) I don't have a lot of driveway space for storage. In fact, I was thinking that I may need to park the truck under the camper when it is not attached. It is not the best option, but I will not move my truck very often as I usually use it primarily for recreation.

😎 I have one of those "tri-fold" bed covers that is made up of three sections that fold up. Is it possible to fold it all the way up and still load the camper on the truck? I realize that my visibility will be blocked if I do this but is looks to me like that the small window that looks through the camper will not provide much visibility anyway. Since there are times I will just be taking my boat to the lake, it would be nice to just leave the topper on full-time if possible.

9) I note that the Lance has only one battery and one propane tank. For the first issue, I would definitely install solar, and for the second I could easily carry an extra propane tank in the boat. I am guessing that my longest camping trip, at least initially, will be five days or so.

10) I have grown accustomed to my tailgate mounted backup camera on my truck. It would be nice to have a backup camera option that connects to my existing cable that goes to the camera on the tailgate and can be attached to the back of the camper. Does such a thing exist?

I welcome your thoughts and advice, have I forgotten anything critical? Thanks in advance to everyone who has made comments about their Lance 825's and popups, I have scoured the forum and have come across several helpful posts that have helped me ask the right questions.

I look forward to the day when I can post the first picture of my rig!

Cheers,
Mike

[tooldad1041]

I have a 2005 Bronco 1500, which is the long bed version. I have it on a one ton dually. Very stable, great fuel mileage (diesel). The only thing I don't like is they are only 7ft wide.

I bought it a year ago and found out it had water damage. A piece of trim along the roof had come off with the previous owner and he never replaced it. Once I got a new top, I slept in the camper 5 nights during a rain storm, not a drop inside.

Now why did I need a new top you might ask? One afternoon in May, I forgot to latch the front locks and it lifted like a kite. It cost me $800 for the new top, plus $200 in labor to have it installed. I bought the camper for $2800.

While the roof was off, I took the time to fix the water issue right. removed all of the bunk wood, and some other areas and replaced. I water treated everything before installing. It was more a musty smelling, rather than rotting. I used bleach and other powerful cleaners before replacing all wood.

I like the 2 piece door, it works fine if level/square. If it is sitting on the the truck it works great. If just setting on legs and not square, then minor rubbing, but a few simple turns of a jack and problem solved.

Good luck on your purchase. Palomino is not top of the line, but with careful attention during use and proper maintenance, it is a decent value for what you get. I too cannot justify what some of these manufacturers are asking price-wise.

Also i like the palomino as it is a "glorified" tent with AC. We have yet to use the stove or water. I also took out bathroom as I stated the width is an issue, a lot more storage with the cabinet I built instead. We have a porta-potty at our lake lot, and most other places there are trees!

One last thing, I don't feel as claustrophobic in a pop-up since there is not a lot of upper items, that does cut down on storage, but it is a nice open feel.

again, good luck. PM me if you have an specific questions.

J

[Geewizard]

My all up weight is about 2000. E-W bed. single battery, 120W solar, Tundra fridge (12v only), pure sine-wave inverter, no microwave or oven, air bags, E tires, Honda gen., handles very well. No issues since 2004.

[cewillis]

Mine is the E-W bed. With 4 89# batteries, 44 gal fresh water, a 2nd mounted spare, at least 150 lbs in tools and gear, a winch, winch anchor, plus cabinets full of food, clothes, etc, my weight is about 3000 lbs.
(and my truck sits at stock height with my overload springs )

[work2fish]

805gregg wrote:
If you have a 1 ton truck why not get a hard sided camper instead of a tent camper

A couple reasons:

1) Payload capacity is still only 3400 total (there are four of us and a dog which may total 700lbs) and I pull a boat (tongue weight approx 250-300lbs)

and

2) I want to maintain a bit more clearance for 4WD roads and brush

Thanks for all the posts from Apex owners and others. I am still wondering about the total wet weight since the one for sale has the North-South cab over, A/C, two batteries, microwave and the King Dome, etc.

I read a post from a while ago :

http://www.rv.net/forum/Index.cfm/fuseaction/thread/tid/25097958.cfm

In which this fellow said his fully loaded Apex weight exceeded 3700 pounds(!) he appeared to have many extras, but what are some of the wet weights from other Apex 8 owners and what options do you have?

Cheers,
Mike

[805gregg]

If you have a 1 ton truck why not get a hard sided camper instead of a tent camper

[Geewizard]

cewillis wrote:

work2fish wrote:

Thoughts on Outfitter and this price?

First, I'm biased. But I carefully compared Outfitter, Hallmark, and Northstar comparable sizes back in 2007 before I bought new. I thought those were the three best popups back then. The Outfitter Apex 8 was the best choice for me.
I've had absolutely no reason to regret or even reconsider my decision since, and only minor maintenance type issues. The camper been on several deep back road, off road trips, and a couple of long coast-to-coast type trips. http://www.ctwillis.com/

Don't know anything about used prices, sorry.

Like cewillis, I compared all the pop-up TC manufacturers before I bought mine in 2004. And, again like cewillis, the Outfitter Apex 8 was the best choice for me.

I have absolutely no regret buying my Apex 8. I expect to have it for the rest of my TCing days.

[cewillis]

work2fish wrote:

Thoughts on Outfitter and this price?

First, I'm biased. But I carefully compared Outfitter, Hallmark, and Northstar comparable sizes back in 2007 before I bought new. I thought those were the three best popups back then. The Outfitter Apex 8 was the best choice for me.
I've had absolutely no reason to regret or even reconsider my decision since, and only minor maintenance type issues. The camper been on several deep back road, off road trips, and a couple of long coast-to-coast type trips. http://www.ctwillis.com/

Don't know anything about used prices, sorry.

[ISBRAM]

work2fish wrote:
Just a followup, today I looked at a used 2011 Outfitter Apex 8.
In any event, they are asking $20K for it, but the King Dome itself is a $1600 option.

Thoughts on Outfitter and this price?

Thanks in advance,
Mike

I’ve never owned an Outfitter but many folks here do and many people believe it is one of the best pop-up’s you can buy. It’s a lot of money but if you can afford it and will use it enough to justify it you may be much better off than with a low end camper in the long run.
Outfitter and Hallmark seem to retain a lot of value at resale time; at least I know my old ’94 Hallmark did.
At 20k that’s the ball park asking price for this camper used; if it’s a dealer they should be including installation on your truck. The cost of tie downs, turnbuckles, wiring, steps etc all add up fast. Maybe you could sell that dish on the roof and recoup a little cash.

Outfitter has a forum; I haven’t been over there for a long time.

[stickbowjoe]

CD, that might well be the coolest post I ever read!

Carry on, Sir!

Joe

[cd4eac]

Well, I know I am in the minority here but we have had a Bronco 1251 since 2007, have it on a Ford F 250 and it works fine for us. We usually take a 2 week vacation in Sept. with several nights closer to home every summer. It was cheap when we bought it but have stayed over 100 nights in it. The door works fine once on the truck and leveled in the bed. I carry a 2 step ladder to poke in the canvas, never had any problems with it and have been from Maine to Washington, Florida to Montana. I will be the first to admit it is not nearly as nice as a Northstar. I don't need and can't afford the high end things in life, I make do with what I have and Have a good time whenever out on the road..The main thing is to USE it! We have fun no matter where we go. Good luck.

[DemingNM2009]

We had a 2009 Bronco 1251B. Frankly, we hated it. Putting the 2 part door up in the rain is no fun. We put a lot of cauk on the seams but couldn't stop the leaks. We now have a Northstar 850SC. Big difference in quality. I'd look for a used Northstar, Hallmark or Outfitter and forget the Bronco.

[stickbowjoe]

I think the very worst thing a prospective buyer of his first camper could possibly do would be to compare "features", or appliances, or gizmos.

The best and the worst share the same appliances. Construction is the key, just as in a house.

It IS a house, albeit a tiny one.

Maytag appliances don't trump a leaky roof, or a poor foundation, in a house, and the same ethic applies to campers.

I only know one brand, so am not experienced, but I wanted to mention that.

Cheap is often, even almost always, cheap for a good reason.

When you buy quality, it only hurts once.

Best,

Joe

[work2fish]

Just a followup, today I looked at a used 2011 Outfitter Apex 8. I think Outfitter might be the camper for me, if I can come up with the dough! 🙂

It was nice and roomy and had plenty of sleep space. My 13 year old is getting bigger and the bed in the Bronco was a bit short when I measured it, but this one was 6'2". I also liked the pull out drawer bed which would come in handy when my son brought a friend along or my daughter went with us. Overall, I thought it was a nice layout and had good fit and finish.

It also had the King Dome satellite dish on top, which is an expensive option and something I probably wouldn't use much as I don't pay for TV. If it had an Internet connection capability, that would be something else entirely but my quick search of the net shows that this isn't likely.

In any event, they are asking $20K for it, but the King Dome itself is a $1600 option.

Thoughts on Outfitter and this price?

Thanks in advance,
Mike