Ford and GMC to produce new 9 and 10 speed transmissions

[Golden_HVAC]

This is a link to the press release.

Ford and GMC to jointly develop new 9 and 10 speed automatic transmissions for both front and rear wheel drive vehicles. Using common parts in both will allow lower prices due to scale of transmissions being built.

https://www.fleet.ford.com/ShowWhatsNewItem.asp?id=1313

So all the 2014 trucks with only 6 speeds will need to be replaced with the newer 9 or 10 speed trucks that will come out in a few years.

Fred.

[Mark_Kovalsky]

Golden_HVAC wrote:
This might prevent a current problem, the transmission overheating while backing up with a larger fifth wheel attached. The transmission heats up mainly because it is not turning more than a few dozen revolutions on the output shaft in a minute, but the input shaft needs to turn 900 - 1800 RPM to develope enough horsepower to move a larger trailer onto leveling blocks, or to get it up a steep driveway.

Fred.

The transmission heats up when backing because of torque converter slip, not the ratio between the input shaft and output shaft. That's just gearing, and compared to the heat the torque converter generates, the gearing generates almost negligible heat. The other contributing factor is little or no airflow over the cooling system when backing.

A higher (numerically) reverse ratio will help keep the trans cooler because the torque converter won't have to work as hard, so it won't generate as much heat.

[Golden_HVAC]

Yes they might be planning on using the same 5 gears as they use now, with a second set to give a mid-range for each of those 5 gears, giving a total of 10 speeds without the need to build 10 separate ratios inside the transmission.

But who knows, it is still early in the design process.

I would also imangine they can now have a two ratio reverse gear too. Perhasps a low ratio used while in the tow haul mode, and a second ratio used only when not in the tow haul mode, so they can go a little faster in the higher range. This might prevent a current problem, the transmission overheating while backing up with a larger fifth wheel attached. The transmission heats up mainly because it is not turning more than a few dozen revolutions on the output shaft in a minute, but the input shaft needs to turn 900 - 1800 RPM to develope enough horsepower to move a larger trailer onto leveling blocks, or to get it up a steep driveway.

Fred.

[PUCampin]

It is in the name of efficency. All engines have a brake specific fuel consumption map, which plots how fast it uses fuel as a function of RPM and load (looks like a topo map). For the zetec in my focus, that is between 1500 and 3000rpm and 1/2 to 3/4 load. The more you can keep the engine in the zone of lowest consumption, the more effecency you squeeze out of it. More gears help to keep it there. The most ideal transmission for this is a CVT, but people seem to really dislike CVTs and in general do not buy them.

The other benefit would be only 1 rear end choice required with so many gears. I wonder if they are going to use some under/over inside the new transmissions to multiply the ratios

[Dave_H_M]

Back to the OP. I think that 9 or 10 speeds would be way too much for my towing needs.

I see no need for any more than the current six speeds.

[h2guy]

h2guy wrote:

h2guy wrote:

rjstractor wrote:

h2guy wrote:
And on these 9-10 spd trannys, I'll bet you'll never see one in a HD diesel powered PU. Too much stuffed into a small space can't possibly allow much torque.

???? The up to 18 speed transmissions in OTR trucks seem to handle 2000+ ft./lbs of torque pulling over 100,000 lbs. just fine. A smaller, fully automated version would work well in a pickup.

I don't think so. Those trannys are MASSIVE, as is everything else on an HDT. And they use a splitter to get 18 spds, not gearsets. And they're manuals, not automatics.

I just don't think the metallurgy and size constraints under a PU will allow it.

The Ford's 4R100 (100 for the 1000ft lbs of torque rating) is pretty big already.

[h2guy]

h2guy wrote:

rjstractor wrote:

h2guy wrote:
And on these 9-10 spd trannys, I'll bet you'll never see one in a HD diesel powered PU. Too much stuffed into a small space can't possibly allow much torque.

???? The up to 18 speed transmissions in OTR trucks seem to handle 2000+ ft./lbs of torque pulling over 100,000 lbs. just fine. A smaller, fully automated version would work well in a pickup.

I don't think so. Those trannys are MASSIVE, as is everything else on an HDT. And they use a splitter to get 18 spds, not gearsets. And they're manuals, not automatics.

I just don't think the metallurgy and size constraints under a PU will allow it.

The Ford's 4R100 (100 for the 1000ft lbs of torque rating) is pretty big already.

[h2guy]

rjstractor wrote:

h2guy wrote:
And on these 9-10 spd trannys, I'll bet you'll never see one in a HD diesel powered PU. Too much stuffed into a small space can't possibly allow much torque.

???? The up to 18 speed transmissions in OTR trucks seem to handle 2000+ ft./lbs of torque pulling over 100,000 lbs. just fine. A smaller, fully automated version would work well in a pickup.

I don't think so. Those trannys are MASSIVE, as is everything else on an HDT. And they use a splitter to get 18 spds, not gearsets.

I just don't think the metallurgy and size constraints under a PU will allow it.

The Ford's 4R100 (100 for the 1000ft lbs of torque rating) is pretty big already.

[reddwar]

I liked my old 13 speed road ranger. Why more gears the bigger the load & taller the hill the more gears I would use. A diesel will pull harder but has a lot smaller power range then a gas engine. RPM on a diesel only goes up to around 3,000 where gas 6,000+.

Two speed rear end, I had one go into neutral & we stopped about 50' from the top of a very long hill, not fun the only thing that would hold it is my foot brake. After a while no one came by so very slow I backed back down that long very long hill. No one to chock a wheel but also no one behind me all the way down. Thank goodness for no traffic. Only good thing was that I had a bob truck with a 22' flat bed. Don't know what I would have done if I would have had a trailer. I am good at backing up, but not a mile or more. Never liked a two speed after that.

[BenK]

I'm a KISS trained person...

The higher the complexity, the more chances for failure and increase in both
cost to repair and difficulty of repair

but...I'm a manual tranny kind of guy...

[64thunderbolt]

Imagine the diesel tuners scratching their heads thinking, "what do I do with these things.

[thomhack]

Durability and longevity, plus maintenance costs are my main concerns.

[rjstractor]

h2guy wrote:
And on these 9-10 spd trannys, I'll bet you'll never see one in a HD diesel powered PU. Too much stuffed into a small space can't possibly allow much torque.

???? The up to 18 speed transmissions in OTR trucks seem to handle 2000+ ft./lbs of torque pulling over 100,000 lbs. just fine. A smaller, fully automated version would work well in a pickup.

[Hannibal]

What's this going to do for you shiftochondriacs who have a panic attack every time the transmission downshifts with only four or five forward ratios?

[BenK]

this thread has me noodling 'why' and one obvious is SMOG tune

Most of us here talk about the sweet spot for towing, be it gasser or diesel

For the EPA and their mandated goals for the OEMs says to me, that the OEMs are
going to super tune all ICE's for a specific area of those ICE's RPM vs Torque/HP
curves

Betcha it will be a small RPM range and will do anything to keep those ICE's
spinning within that range in all conditions

Fly by wire everything (throttle, tranny shifter, advance, fueling, etc, etc, etc)
will have the computer control all...if not already there now

Another betcha is that the Tow/Haul button will either be gone, or does little
as the EPA SMOG position #1 on the priority list