Ford haalf tons- 2000 to now, how do they do that?

Fact from my own testing:

My 02 Explorer is a far better tow vehicle than my 95 F-150.

Explorer VS. F-150
7K tow rating VS. 6K
3.73 gear VS. 3.55
4.6 V8 VS. 5.0 V8
5 Speed Auto VS. 4 Speed Auto
240 HP VS. 195 hp
280 Ft. Lbs. VS. 275 Ft. Lbs.
Both have heavy duty tow package

It's incredible what a few years of design improvement will do for capability.

Many of today's "1/2 ton" pickups are using stronger frames, heavier suspension components, stronger running gear components, and higher capacity coolling systems than "3/4 ton" pickups of 2000 vintage. This is particularly the case when you buy the "1/2 ton" with the high payload and HD towing packages.

Don't get wrapped up in horsepwer numbers, thats not what determines towing capacity. When you move up into medium-duty trucks with even greater towing capacity, you will find some of the same engines down-rated substantially, for a 100% duty cycle rating, as oppossed to the "maximum I can't make it reach on a dyno" ratings used to sell trucks to buyers looking for bragging rights.

hertfordnc wrote:
Just read the thread about the F150 with the GCWR over 15,000 lb with a 5.4 and 3.55 gears.

That's 3000 lb more than my 2001 Expedition with the same engine nd gears.

What else is different? Just curious, not planning to upgrade.

1st: You have the power robbing 4 speed transmission that sucks so much power out of the engine. The gearing is very poor for towing and better for fuel economy. Even with a 3.55 axle, it won't help. The old F150s were also cursed with that 4 speed transmission and also had very low tow ratings because of it. You'd need an axle with a gear of over 5.00 to make up for the transmissions lousy gearing.

The gears are as followed: 1st: 2.84 :1 2nd: 1.55 :1 3rd: 1.00 :1 4th: 0.70 :1 Rev: 2.23 :1 . The new 5.4L F150 transmission is a 6 speed with the following gear ratios: 1=4.17 2=2.34 3=1.52 4=1.14 5=0.86 6=0.69 R=3.40

2nd: You have the 2 Valve 5.4L which is really low on horsepower and torque next to the 3 valve 5.4L. The 3 valve 5.4L has 310 HP and 365 lbs of torque. Your 2 valve 5.4L only has 260 horsepower and 350 lbs of torque.

Any F150 with that 4 speed transmission had really low tow ratings compared to the newer trucks with the 6 speed transmission.

If your Expedition tows what you need, no need to upgrade. But I wouldn't push it as you'd likely damage your transmission.

When I bought my previous 2010 F150 Crew 5.4L 4WD truck, I test drove a similar USED 2008. Night and day difference. The 2008 felt like a dog next to the 2010 even though both had the same engine (2010 was 10 hp more). That transmission takes so much from the engine. Never understood why Ford didn't go with a 5 speed trans like others did. I may had not bought my 2004 Titan if Ford had a decent drive-train then.

I should mention that these tow ratings are only good for boats and flat bed trailers. Travel trailers have heavy tongue weights that go against your payload. Even the new F150 are tow limited by their payloads.

The axle ratings and GVWRs haven't really changed in the last decade so they will likely be able to tow around the same 'real weight' if that makes you feel better. I wouldn't tow more than a 7000 lbs loaded travel trailer with my truck due to it's payload and the weight of my family, gear, and truck accessories.

According to the post that inspired my question, a 2010 F150 with a 5.4, 3.55 has a GCWR of 15500. My 2001 Expi with the same engene and gears is 2000 lb less.

The take away for me is that if i had to pull 9,000 lb I could. It would not be safe but it would probably not kill my truck.

A SUV is going to weigh more than a similarly sized pickup truck for starters and the extra passenger space of the SUV reduces the trailer portion of GCWR by 150 lb per passenger space in the SUV.

There is also a difference in many cases with the rear suspension with the SUV having a design for maximizing passenger comfort whereas the truck is designed to carry as much of a load as possible.

In general the engine cooling and trucks' brakes have improved a good deal over the years. Some of this is adopting disc brakes at the rear wheels and in others it has come from larger rotors at all corners.

Frames have also been strengthened and with the current heavy duty trucks a WDH is not required as with the 1/2 ton trucks and SUV's.

I don't know from Expy's, but based on the numbers of the newer 150's in comparison to mine, I too sometimes have the thought balloon appear above my head "Hmmm....really?"

Shorter wheelbase (145" compared to 163"), taller tires (20" compared to 17") and lighter capacity wheels (and axles?), payloads generally lower by 500-700 lbs (mine is 2200lb compared to 1500-1700) and still OEM whimpy receiver that flexes badly under tongue weights near max of 1150, and yet because of the HP and trans increases, they are rated to tow more than my 9300 lbs and 15,300 combined with the 4.10 and four speed? Granted, I'd love an extra 30 HP and one more practical gear (the last two or OD's) but I don't see the difference covering the gap, especially when the payload is such a big player. I'd love to hitch my 8K to one and see for myself. Other than the power of an Ecoboost in the mix, not sure there'd be a whole lot of difference. At least not enough to give to nod to higher tow ratings. It'd be interesting to see "seat-of-the-pants" comparisons.

Thanks for taking the time to lay that out. Those numebrs do make sense.

I never should have asked, up til now I loved everything about my 2001 Expedition.

Now I only love the title, sitting in a desk drawer.

F-150 is not the same as Expedition. They are similar, but the frames are unique, suspension, etc.

The 5.4L went from 2valve per cyl to 3 vales for 2004 F-150. That improved HP by 15%, torque by a little. 2007+ Expy and 2009+ F150 went 4spd->6spd trans. That's huge as far as real world towing experience goes. Look at the gear multiplication from this of 4-spd to 6-spd. Even ignoring the Ecoboost's extra torque advantage over 5.4L, the gearing of the trans from the 6-spd (and now 2014+ 8spds) is huge impact in wheel torque and real world towing experiences.

I think a lot of specifications for most products are written by the marketing departments and then engineering and manufacturing are charged with making it happen. Or getting close if they can.

maxwell11 wrote:
what bothers me some on these 1/2 pickup numbers,

braking power, the ability to stop and maintain the load.

I have had a 3/4 ton truck since 2000, just always felt a little safer with the bigger brakes and heavy frame.

The loads that these new "1/2 ton" trucks can tow today are because they have more power and probably bigger, better brakes than your 2000 era 3/4 ton. Many of them still lack payload, although some configurations have 1600-1800 available. That being said, the "3/4" and "1 ton" trucks have bigger brakes and frames yet, and their towing numbers are still considerably higher. In many cases, towing capacities have nearly doubled in the last 25 years.