Ford Ram GM

[4x4ord]

When I bought my first F350 back in 2011 I felt there were a number of little things that made Ford a better choice for me than what GM and Ram were offering. Things like power tow mirrors, tail gate step, storage compartments, power acc outlets, a much more heavy duty front end. I haven't kept up with all the changes in the new trucks but I know there are fewer things now that Ford has that the others don't. What I'm aware of is the dual panel sun roof and power mirrors. Ram has the air ride suspension and nicer hips on the dually and the mega cab ... does it have a tailgate step? All three manufacturers offer incredible powertrains. Is there anything that GM has the others don't? In the latest HD diesel 1 tons from the big three what features are available or missing on the different brands?

[blofgren]

BigToe wrote:

ROBERTSUNRUS wrote:
Hi, yes you should expect that the fuel you buy to be good, but if it is not, blame the fuel company, not Ford. Water ruins the pump; Ford did not put the water in your tank.

Vehicles have to be built to run on the fuel that is available.

Imagine if your EcoBoost only ran on pure solid rocket fuel that was unobtainable anywhere except Cape Canaveral... that vehicle would be useless in Oregon.

When new Ford trucks don't run on the common fuel that is widely available from Tier One oil company brands dispensed at high volume stations... while all the other diesel trucks on the road do just fine on the same fuel, the problem boils down to Ford not building a truck that runs on the fuel that is available.

Fuel quality and content is strictly regulated. We don't have a choice in the matter. Neither do the refineries. Fuel content is a critical component of the EPA's emission control strategy.

No reasonably responsible person with enough disposable income to afford an $80K truck is dumping in forgotten fuel found in a rusty can buried by their grandpa under a dilapidated barn drowning in a swamp. The owners who have been marooned by Ford on this fuel pump issue have taken fastidious care of their trophy tow vehicle, buying only the best for it, including filter maintenance and top tier fuel. It isn't like they are careless or clueless.

The same fuel powers Peterbilts, KWs, Whites, Hinos, Izuzus, MB's, Cats, Cummins, and my 20 year old Ford diesel that I have drained fuel samples from into a clear container periodically and after letting it stand for a few hours, never yet found a drop of water in the fuel.

Yet Ford has chosen to point to trace amounts of slight corrosion inside the CP4 fuel pump as "evidence" that the customer pumped water into the fuel tank, and therefore the customer (or the fuel company) is to be blamed. For what? Poor engineering of a component that cannot run on the regulated fuel available? When that specific component is manufactured with dissimilar metals internally that eventually exhibit corrosion anyway, without help of water?

That GM warrantied the failure of these fuel pumps, and Ford didn't, demonstrates that Ford took advantage of the propensity of these pumps to exhibit dissimilar metal corrosion, and used that as an excuse to blame the customer for the problem in order to weasel out of any warranty obligation to fix it.

GM abandoned the CP4 pump.(Gale Banks has some insightful comparison comments on the differences between the CP4 and the new fuel pump in the L5P in a recent video he made in conjunction with two other guys whose names I forget)

Very well said!

[ExxWhy]

Cummins12V98 wrote:
"Excellent chance I will be buying a 19 Ram HD, but will never ride with the mirrors up."

Let me know how that works out for you! On my 98 with 3rd gen flip up mirrors I ran with them down as the spot mirror worked the same when up or down. The 4th gen mirrors spot really only works well with the mirrors UP.

HMMMM will this be a deal breaker????? I love em!

Ha, I hope it's not a deal breaker. We'll see when I drive one. Now that I think about it, surprised nobody came out with some ford style mirrors to fit on a ram mount. I bet there is money in that idea. 🙂 I am spoiled with the mirrors I have on my Ford and my Chevy, can see the blindspot next to you at a glance.

[Me_Again]

mooky stinks wrote:
I never understood the Ram guys and having the mirrors up and then I had to drive my buddy's Ram for him. I really didn't like the view unless they were up. lol

It is called "antlers up"! The wide view mirror works much better when in antlers up position.

On the way home from Colorado on the second day in Boise, Id I tried to change lanes on top of a small car. So I stopped and added a little stick on mirror to help with the blind spot.



Chris

[mooky_stinks]

I never understood the Ram guys and having the mirrors up and then I had to drive my buddy's Ram for him. I really didn't like the view unless they were up. lol

[Cummins12V98]

"Excellent chance I will be buying a 19 Ram HD, but will never ride with the mirrors up."

Let me know how that works out for you! On my 98 with 3rd gen flip up mirrors I ran with them down as the spot mirror worked the same when up or down. The 4th gen mirrors spot really only works well with the mirrors UP.

HMMMM will this be a deal breaker????? I love em!

[Bedlam]

With the mirrors flipped down on the Ram, the blind spot section is almost useless to me. Coming from Ford mirrors, I think that telescoping is a better design. Since my truck rarely is driven without the camper, the mirrors are usually flipped out which lessens my annoyance with the Ram design.

[ExxWhy]

Cummins12V98 wrote:
I am sure the ford mirrors work well. But iMHO that is not a reason to buy a truck. Funny part is that seems to be the number one reason given for buying a Ford.

I REALLY like my folding mirrors. Actually I never fold them down. I do use the fold away option every time I park my truck.

But hey it's always nice to have options.

Antlers UP I say!

It is funny how those mirrors cause such a reaction. I am one to react too! Every time I see the antlers up I always think about the poor trailer they must have lost since the tow mirrors are up. I see them up and will always associate that with a trash can sized tailpipe or stacks hacked into the bed. I do wish they would put the Ford and GM copied mirrors on there.

Excellent chance I will be buying a 19 Ram HD, but will never ride with the mirrors up. I have such a phobia about it I don't even want to tow with them up! I really need to get past it, perhaps months of therapy might get me there. 🙂 🙂

[Cummins12V98]

I am sure the ford mirrors work well. But iMHO that is not a reason to buy a truck. Funny part is that seems to be the number one reason given for buying a Ford.

I REALLY like my folding mirrors. Actually I never fold them down. I do use the fold away option every time I park my truck.

But hey it's always nice to have options.

Antlers UP I say!

[Fordlover]

4x4ord wrote:
It is going to come down to putting value on little things like massage seats and remote start range. The remote start range on my Ford is pathetic. Fuel economy is going to play a role in deciding on my next truck.

I use the ford remote access system (now called FordPass I believe) if you (and the truck) have cell signal, you can remote start from anywhere.

Ford really has lead innovation on trucks for many years, Integrated brake controller, unmatched tow mirrors, tailgate step, the surround view camera system.

The mirrors were the big deal for me, I didn't dig flipping mirrors up, so I just couldn't go with the Ram. And the one I had had the small mirrors that didn't even flip.

Became this:


I think everyone else is catching up though. Dodge/Ram did when they brought out the exhaust brake that worked so well.

[ricatic]

BigToe wrote:

ROBERTSUNRUS wrote:
Hi, yes you should expect that the fuel you buy to be good, but if it is not, blame the fuel company, not Ford. Water ruins the pump; Ford did not put the water in your tank.

Vehicles have to be built to run on the fuel that is available.

Imagine if your EcoBoost only ran on pure solid rocket fuel that was unobtainable anywhere except Cape Canaveral... that vehicle would be useless in Oregon.

When new Ford trucks don't run on the common fuel that is widely available from Tier One oil company brands dispensed at high volume stations... while all the other diesel trucks on the road do just fine on the same fuel, the problem boils down to Ford not building a truck that runs on the fuel that is available.

Fuel quality and content is strictly regulated. We don't have a choice in the matter. Neither do the refineries. Fuel content is a critical component of the EPA's emission control strategy.

No reasonably responsible person with enough disposable income to afford an $80K truck is dumping in forgotten fuel found in a rusty can buried by their grandpa under a dilapidated barn drowning in a swamp. The owners who have been marooned by Ford on this fuel pump issue have taken fastidious care of their trophy tow vehicle, buying only the best for it, including filter maintenance and top tier fuel. It isn't like they are careless or clueless.

The same fuel powers Peterbilts, KWs, Whites, Hinos, Izuzus, MB's, Cats, Cummins, and my 20 year old Ford diesel that I have drained fuel samples from into a clear container periodically and after letting it stand for a few hours, never yet found a drop of water in the fuel.

Yet Ford has chosen to point to trace amounts of slight corrosion inside the CP4 fuel pump as "evidence" that the customer pumped water into the fuel tank, and therefore the customer (or the fuel company) is to be blamed. For what? Poor engineering of a component that cannot run on the regulated fuel available? When that specific component is manufactured with dissimilar metals internally that eventually exhibit corrosion anyway, without help of water?

That GM warrantied the failure of these fuel pumps, and Ford didn't, demonstrates that Ford took advantage of the propensity of these pumps to exhibit dissimilar metal corrosion, and used that as an excuse to blame the customer for the problem in order to weasel out of any warranty obligation to fix it.

GM abandoned the CP4 pump.(Gale Banks has some insightful comparison comments on the differences between the CP4 and the new fuel pump in the L5P in a recent video he made in conjunction with two other guys whose names I forget)

Exactly what actually happened in my case...second dealer totally debunked the water in fuel nonsense from the crooked stealership in Ann Arbor...To deny Ford took the low road in the CP 4 debacle is a sure sign of “blue kool aid poisoning”...

[BigToe]

ROBERTSUNRUS wrote:
Hi, yes you should expect that the fuel you buy to be good, but if it is not, blame the fuel company, not Ford. Water ruins the pump; Ford did not put the water in your tank.

Vehicles have to be built to run on the fuel that is available.

Imagine if your EcoBoost only ran on pure solid rocket fuel that was unobtainable anywhere except Cape Canaveral... that vehicle would be useless in Oregon.

When new Ford trucks don't run on the common fuel that is widely available from Tier One oil company brands dispensed at high volume stations... while all the other diesel trucks on the road do just fine on the same fuel, the problem boils down to Ford not building a truck that runs on the fuel that is available.

Fuel quality and content is strictly regulated. We don't have a choice in the matter. Neither do the refineries. Fuel content is a critical component of the EPA's emission control strategy.

No reasonably responsible person with enough disposable income to afford an $80K truck is dumping in forgotten fuel found in a rusty can buried by their grandpa under a dilapidated barn drowning in a swamp. The owners who have been marooned by Ford on this fuel pump issue have taken fastidious care of their trophy tow vehicle, buying only the best for it, including filter maintenance and top tier fuel. It isn't like they are careless or clueless.

The same fuel powers Peterbilts, KWs, Whites, Hinos, Izuzus, MB's, Cats, Cummins, and my 20 year old Ford diesel that I have drained fuel samples from into a clear container periodically and after letting it stand for a few hours, never yet found a drop of water in the fuel.

Yet Ford has chosen to point to trace amounts of slight corrosion inside the CP4 fuel pump as "evidence" that the customer pumped water into the fuel tank, and therefore the customer (or the fuel company) is to be blamed. For what? Poor engineering of a component that cannot run on the regulated fuel available? When that specific component is manufactured with dissimilar metals internally that eventually exhibit corrosion anyway, without help of water?

That GM warrantied the failure of these fuel pumps, and Ford didn't, demonstrates that Ford took advantage of the propensity of these pumps to exhibit dissimilar metal corrosion, and used that as an excuse to blame the customer for the problem in order to weasel out of any warranty obligation to fix it.

GM abandoned the CP4 pump.(Gale Banks has some insightful comparison comments on the differences between the CP4 and the new fuel pump in the L5P in a recent video he made in conjunction with two other guys whose names I forget)

[Huntindog]

ROBERTSUNRUS wrote:

Bionic Man wrote:

4bearhug wrote:

ROBERTSUNRUS wrote:

wnjj wrote:

mtofell1 wrote:
They are all great. All the bashing about fuel pumps, etc. on these boards makes me laugh. Very few owners keep these trucks past the warranty period anyway so what difference does it make?

Every post is the same..... "This is going to be the last truck I EVER buy so I want to be sure it's good." Next sentence - "I'll be trading in my 2016 and am hoping to get what I owe on trade...."

Really, just go sit in all of them, shop prices, read, research and take your time. It's hard to make a wrong choice.

It may still matter to those whose warranty was denied due to claims of “water in the fuel”.

🙂 Hi, did the manufacturer put the water in the fuel?????? Owner's problem for buying cheap **** fuel.

Oh now I get it. All of the CP4 failures were due to owners error of buying cheap fuel. Glad we got that cleared up.

I'd agree that the "owner's problem" comment is........not well thought out.

Buyers have a reasonable expectation of getting fuel that won't harm their engine if they purchase at virtually any station in the US.

If someone makes a mistake and puts the wrong type of fuel in, that is arguably a different story.

🙂 Hi, yes you should expect that the fuel you buy to be good, but if it is not, blame the fuel company, not Ford. Water ruins the pump; Ford did not put the water in your tank.

Sooooo... You think that the Ford owners are snakebit? In that they seem to put water in their tank at a much higher rate than the OB?

Of course that isn't true. It also isn't true that the Ford owners are putting water in their tanks on purpose....

I have seen the actual failure rate numbers in the past. They were in a NHSTA document.

GM actually had a higher rate than Ford.... But you never heard about GM failures. They just quietly took care of their customers.

Not to say that GM is an Angel all the time, but they seemed to understand that they did NOT want the Dmaxes reputation tarnished in that way, with that part.

[ROBERTSUNRUS]

Bionic Man wrote:

4bearhug wrote:

ROBERTSUNRUS wrote:

wnjj wrote:

mtofell1 wrote:
They are all great. All the bashing about fuel pumps, etc. on these boards makes me laugh. Very few owners keep these trucks past the warranty period anyway so what difference does it make?

Every post is the same..... "This is going to be the last truck I EVER buy so I want to be sure it's good." Next sentence - "I'll be trading in my 2016 and am hoping to get what I owe on trade...."

Really, just go sit in all of them, shop prices, read, research and take your time. It's hard to make a wrong choice.

It may still matter to those whose warranty was denied due to claims of “water in the fuel”.

🙂 Hi, did the manufacturer put the water in the fuel?????? Owner's problem for buying cheap **** fuel.

Oh now I get it. All of the CP4 failures were due to owners error of buying cheap fuel. Glad we got that cleared up.

I'd agree that the "owner's problem" comment is........not well thought out.

Buyers have a reasonable expectation of getting fuel that won't harm their engine if they purchase at virtually any station in the US.

If someone makes a mistake and puts the wrong type of fuel in, that is arguably a different story.

🙂 Hi, yes you should expect that the fuel you buy to be good, but if it is not, blame the fuel company, not Ford. Water ruins the pump; Ford did not put the water in your tank.

[FishOnOne]

Me Again wrote:
While Ford was blaming users, GM was quietly replacing CP4-2 and some owners did not even study their paper work close enough to know that. Pain for GM was to the point that they switched to the Denso pump. No one has come on here complaining about the pump yet.

The last couple of CP4 pumps that failed here at RV.net was one that the owner admitted pouring DEF into the diesel tank therefore warranty wasn't covered and the last one Ford covered it. Fords inspection procedure is not trivial and is similar as the other manufacturers perform.

I do agree that the Denso pump appears to be doing good but there has been some injector issues.

[Me_Again]

While Ford was blaming users, GM was quietly replacing CP4-2 and some owners did not even study their paper work close enough to know that. Pain for GM was to the point that they switched to the Denso pump. No one has come on here complaining about the pump yet.