Gear Ratio

[covetsthesun]

I'd like to know whether a higher or lower gear ratio is better for towing. Considering a 2013 or 14 Silverado 2500 4wd. I plan to be in mountains as well as flats. Don't know what I'm going to tow yet so that's not currently part of the equation.

DH thinks having lower gear ratio is best for towing..but isn't sure so said to ask y'all.

How does having one or the other make a difference in ability?

cts

[GoPackGo]

I've been driving diesels since the early 80's (VW). These new ones are amazing. I started mine up yesterday and immediately walked back to stand by the exhaust pipe. There was no smoke and no odor. Zip. Nada. Zero. Just crazy amazing. And mine is super quiet. In fact I'll bet my diesel is quieter pulling my 14,000 pound trailer at 60 MPH and about 1700 RPMs (3.73 gears) then a gasser doing the same - especially up any kind of hill. I don't ever want to own another gasser vehicle.

[blt2ski]

Has Consumers reports ever reported on trucks in the HD DOT class 2 relm. ie 8400-10000 lbs gvwr, or class 3 from 10001-13500? or what most of us will call 3/4 or 1 tons?!?!?! Not sure where that post came from, I have seen half ton or cars, trucks with gvwr's under 8400 lbs tested......nothing I would call of significant size.

As far as RA's go.....get one that puts you as low as possible at the speed you will drive at for best mpg. AND with the DOD gears in the trannies today, it is possible to be geared TOO TALL! as it was in the past. I would need a heck of a lot of torque to keep a trailer moving at 60 mph and 1300-1400 rpms with a 3.42 geared rig with a dod at say 15-20K lbs or more with the typical 31-32" tire diam trucks have today.

marty

[NC_Hauler]

PartyMarty wrote:
Regarding Consumer Reports:
I have used them for 40 plus years .
I use them as a source to get educated about every product they test .
I have followed their articles for cars and trucks and have had good results .
Why would I disregard Consumer Reports in favor of some person on the internet that has way less actual experience in comparing two or more vehicles ?
For those that have the combination of duramax / Allison with a 3.73 or lower ratio , they still have a grin on their face after coming from any gasser including all the Big Blocks that I have owned for the last several decades .

Don't recollect anyone stating that YOU need to get rid of Consumers Report. Several of us think it's nothing more than a rag....life and a little research helps me know what is worth buying or not. I was a member and got the magazine for years, never helped me make up my mind about any vehicle, nor appliances, stereo equipment, computers, well you get the gist..it was interesting, but they seem to miss the mark enough times for me to question their authenticity....They've been wrong on so many different things that I canned them...

I agree with you on the D/A combo, I owned three of them....Don't know what big blocks you owned and had in trucks, but I did like the 8.1/A I had in 01'...just never met a filling station it didn't like, other than that, IT WAS A TOWING ANIMULE!:)

[PartyMarty]

Regarding Consumer Reports:
I have used them for 40 plus years .
I use them as a source to get educated about every product they test .
I have followed their articles for cars and trucks and have had good results .
Why would I disregard Consumer Reports in favor of some person on the internet that has way less actual experience in comparing two or more vehicles ?
For those that have the combination of duramax / Allison with a 3.73 or lower ratio , they still have a grin on their face after coming from any gasser including all the Big Blocks that I have owned for the last several decades .

[Water-Bug]

Typically, the more gears/speeds in your transmission, the less critical/significant your rear end gear ratio becomes. A three or four speed transmission probably has a top gear ratio of 1 to 1. A 5 or 6 speed transmission probably has at least one overdrive gear. The same is true for the low/1st gear ratio. The more speeds in the transmission, the lower the 1st gear ratio is going to be. Low 1st gear ratios and high top gear ratioes effectively change the overall ratio to the rear wheels, eliminating the significance of the rear axel ratio.

EDIT. Look at the chart in the thread "I did it", submitted by APT

[covetsthesun]

Cost of diesel fuel vs gas is a huge reason you don't see more diesels in America. And the scarcity of gas stations offering diesel.

None of the 5 stations near my home offer diesel. I would have to drive a long way to find diesel. That puts a damper on buying one for sure.

cts

[bmanning]

KD4UPL wrote:
For towing with a gas engine I would get the 4.10 (which is the lower gearing). If you get a diesel your only option will be the 3.73 which will do just fine.
Please don't judge a diesel engine by a 1984 Mercedes. Try comparing anything else from 1984 to today's technology: computers, cell phones, televisions, etc.
Diesel engines have come a long long way. Unfortunately a lot of Americans still seem to make those comparisons to long past diesel technology. I think that's why we don't have as many diesel vehicle options in this country.

IMO the biggest reason that we don't see more diesels is the fuel price; at a station near my home in Phoenix 87oct is $3.19 and #2 diesel is $3.62.

Though we on this forum realize that diesel inherently gets better MPG and some basic math can determine which is more economical, the "average" consumer will just look at fuel prices and think "no way I'm spending $0.40 more per gallon" even if that basic math might mean the diesel is still cheaper per mile.

If diesel was $3.19 and 87oct was $3.62, I'm confident a WHOLE BUNCH of folks would make the switch, particular now that diesels are quiet and virtually odor-free.

[APT]

If you can afford it, get a 2010+ diesel. No smell, quiet once moving, 700+ lb-ft of torque for reserve. If you stick with gas, get the 4.10. 6th gear is tall!

[NC_Hauler]

dougsee3 wrote:
Axle Ratios

Knew I was right on that one....just didn't want to get into the math formula's that would have proven all that out....:)

[dougsee3]

Axle Ratios

[mpierce]

Consumer Reports has bad mouthed HD trucks for years. They are a "green" org. So, when they review pickups, I take most of what they say with a LARGE grain of salt. The HD features that allow you to haul a bigger load, they rate as NEGATIVE! They prefer a small, low capacity truck, with car like features! To them, a nice seat, is MUCH better than the ability to tow a load!

They down rated a 3500, BECAUSE it rode a little rougher than a 1500! No s**t!

[NC_Hauler]

Gotta get me one of the T-shirts to be sure....:)

If I'm not mistaken, I thought the Duramax/Allison combo comes with the 3:73...can tow a lot of weight, has low end TQ and still get's pretty good mpg.

As far as 4:10, which is what I have, it gives you more gross combined weight..the truck and what you tow can weigh more than with a 3:73, 3:42 etc...

The way I understand it, the 3:42, 3:73 would give better mpg than the 4:10 would...I'm use to a 4:10 so it doesn't matter to me...But there are Math equations that show you tach lower with the 3:42, 3:73 than with the 4:10 when empty or towing, thus, higher rpm, would equate to using a little more fuel, but would allow for heavier towing...(if trucks GVWR can handle pin or tongue weight).


4:10 isn't as "economical" as the 3:73, 3:55, 3:42, but they have a less GCWR than the 4:10 gives one in an identical truck....

hope this helped......

[covetsthesun]

NC Hauler wrote:

covetsthesun wrote:
NC Hauler.. a "big dog" truck is simply a bigger stronger vehicle than a small one. In every group of dogs there's always an "alpha" male and he is the Big Dog.

There's also a saying... "if you can't run with the Big Dogs stay on the porch".

It's just a way of highlighting the more powerful object.

Our friend just happens to own a Ram diesel that can tow just about anything. I can ride in his truck and not deal with a salesman right away.

I've had Chevy/GM's for a long time and while I like them...Dodge compared well in Consumer Reports too. Our Ram friend thinks I should get a Sierra... he's impressed with the comfort and finish.

Thanks to all for the education. There's a lot of experience here and y'all are generous with sharing it. I'm sure there's a few folks out there that learned something new too.

cts

AT 63 years of age, and towing steady since 75', I've owned a pile of Chevy's, gas and diesel...and Dodge/Ram since 2010 (three of them)...

Never heard a truck, no matter the size, referred to as a "Big Dog", must be a regional thing:)

The old saying, if you can't run with the big dogs has been around for a lot of years, when I was younger I used it quite often, it was more of a "macho" thing, same as the "alpha male" tag.....I just know trucks and what they can and can't do...

I learned a lot the hard way and wished, when I was younger that I had listened to some advice given me at times..now that I've "been there, done that' got the T-Shirt, all I try to do is try to help some not make the mistakes I did, saves some money and grief in the long run:) Sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't.

oh, Consumers Report in my mind, having been a member for well over 20 years has proved out wrong on quite a few of their reports on reliability and choice of vehicles....I dropped them and pay no more attention to any of their reports on anything, they don't have the credibility they did years ago.....they "miss" more than they "hit".

And trying to avoid mistakes is exactly why I come here to ask questions! I wish I'd listened more too... my Dad passed a few years ago and there's so much I could have learned if I'd only listened.

My CR scrip runs out in 2014. On the fence about keeping it.

Re Big Dog... it's probably regional, but there's a brand of Big Dog clothing out that's pretty cool. DH loves his "we don't need no stinking leashes" tee shirt. BD has become a "state of mind"LOL!

cts

[covetsthesun]

Dadoffourgirls wrote:
When GM changed to the 4.10 as the standard rear ratio for the 2013 HD, they indicated that it was because it improved fuel economy for most lower speed driving.

So, I wouldn't necessarily be giving up fuel economy? Also... would the lower gear ratio help driving over rough ground?

A few years ago we (DH)accidentally got on a BLM mountain forest road... while it was gorgeous our Silverado is not tricked out for that type of road. A crush plate would have been nice. It took about two hours to go 10 miles. Had to move a few logs and rocks out of the "road". No way to turn around or back out. Lets just say the GPS lied.

In 2003 we (I was driving)had a Ford 150 out in Colorado and took a "squiggly grey line on the map" that looked like a promising short cut... it was ONLY if you had 4wd. We did make it through the "short cut" without damaging the truck.

DH's coffee was all over the place... him, the headliner... windshield...dash... he didn't enjoy it much and was adamant that we never ever do anything like that again. Meaning me of course.

So... when HE got on the wrong road in GA... it was agreed we would never speak of it again.

That's a long winded story but it does illustrate the kinds of places I find fascinating and why I'm leaning 4wd...crush plate... etc.


So..does the lower gear help even when not towing?

cts