GM is going aluminum

[Groover]

According to an article in the Wall Street Journal Chevy and will GMC will going aluminum 4 years after Ford.

http://finance.yahoo.com/news/gm-readying-aluminum-body-trucks-032223285.html

It will be interesting to see how this affects the debate on the merits of aluminum.

[jus2shy]

spoon059 wrote:
Kinda off topic, but still kinda relevant... Isn't there another technology that would work in place of aluminum for body panels? I know at one point that someone (maybe the Toyota Tacoma?) was using composite material for truck beds. I can't believe that in 2014 we don't have more technology that is suitable for truck body panels that is lightweight, inexpensive and durable enough to survive a parking lot ding...

There are pluses and minuses to material selection in certain areas. For example, in reading some engineering rags, Ford selected aluminum because they could light-weight the truck, but at the same time increase panel thickness and rigidity to help prevent dents. I had the opportunity to look at a brand new 2015 Ford. The panels indeed "Felt" thicker as I knocked on the tailgate (part of the truck that was closest to the velvet rope LOL). So I'm sure that Ford is speaking truthfully when they say the new truck will be more "Dent Resistant".

The problem with polymers/composites is their rate of expansion. There used to be a car company called Saturn. When you looked at their traditional cars (before they went to all steel in their last days), you could see expansion joints that are tight in the summer, but large gaps in the winter. Then for the Fiber reinforced polymers (Like Carbon Fiber or Fiberglass), they don't lend themselves to large scale mass production. It's far easier to stamp out metal forms than to have to mold each piece one by one. They are getting closer to making Carbon Fiber and the like more mass-manufacturing compatible, but we're still a ways away. Maybe in 10 years we'll see our first mass-produced CRP cars (I'm talking units over 100,000 per year). And yes, the Tacoma still uses a polymer bed and I believe the Honda Ridgeline uses one as well. I also seem to recall that the Explorer Sport Trac did the same. I thought that was an excellent idea.

[spoon059]

Kinda off topic, but still kinda relevant... Isn't there another technology that would work in place of aluminum for body panels? I know at one point that someone (maybe the Toyota Tacoma?) was using composite material for truck beds. I can't believe that in 2014 we don't have more technology that is suitable for truck body panels that is lightweight, inexpensive and durable enough to survive a parking lot ding...

[wilber1]

Don't know why this is a brand vs brand issue. Reducing weight is a big part of increasing efficiency. Built to the same standard, an aluminum structure is 35 to 45% lighter than steel. When you are talking large pieces like vehicle bodies, engine blocks, cylinder heads and transmission cases, that's huge. All manufacturers will be doing it eventually, they won't have a choice.

[hone_eagle]

insurance ?

maybe yes maybe no


I hear a lot of blablablabla sour grapes blablablabla sour grapes blablabla

[Perrysburg_Dodg]

Sorry but that 10G is what Ford is willing to pony up for some of their dealerships the cost is more then 10G. Sounds like a vocational school would be cheaper for non dealers.

Still going to cost more to insure.

Don

[hone_eagle]

Engineer9860 wrote:

Hybridhunter wrote:
So as usual, GM is 5 years behind, on paper. In practice, Ford owned Jag which has built aluminum cars for a number of years, and the F150 has ahd an aluminum hood for 6 years. That and the torque monster / throttle response of the current, (and coming) Eco boost engines, and the years of experience with forced induction..... Well it just means that for the foreseeable future, Ford will have the more desirable product....
Unless you like off-brand Diesel engines lol. (and Diesel just hit a 30% premium up here in Manitoba)

I could start by showing all of the ways GM leads Ford but I see you are an idiot, and I'll waste no time with it.

I have actually read the same on G.M. forums (GMI) by GM fans,they want their company to get off their butt.

So...............

[Engineer9860]

I think $10,000 to train would be a reasonable cost to a body shop. If you have 10 techs and they average $40,000/yr 10K seems low compared to the wage budget.

If the #1, and #2 selling trucks go aluminum then there will obviously be a need to repair. Wrecks will happen no getting around that.

If I owned a body shop I would already be looking into adding the equipment, and training.

[Engineer9860]

Hybridhunter wrote:
So as usual, GM is 5 years behind, on paper. In practice, Ford owned Jag which has built aluminum cars for a number of years, and the F150 has ahd an aluminum hood for 6 years. That and the torque monster / throttle response of the current, (and coming) Eco boost engines, and the years of experience with forced induction..... Well it just means that for the foreseeable future, Ford will have the more desirable product....
Unless you like off-brand Diesel engines lol. (and Diesel just hit a 30% premium up here in Manitoba)

I could start by showing all of the ways GM leads Ford but I see you are an idiot, and I'll waste no time with it.

[FishOnOne]

Perrysburg Dodgeboy wrote:

hone eagle wrote:
better

Ford is subsidizing repair training ,and subsidizing what new tools need to be purchased,however "designed to be easier to repair or replace panels"

That's great if you want to have the dealer only do your body work. If you want to use a private shop then you may run into some issues. The Funny thing about the story you linked, is spin master Mark Levine kind of contradicted himself.

From your link wrote:
DEARBORN, Michigan — Ford has unveiled a collision repair program for dealers and owners of body shops when it comes to fixing the aluminum body panels on the 2015 Ford F-150, a move that should reassure car shoppers, the company told Edmunds.
Then he says this.

Ford will subsidize 20 percent or up to $10,000 for training and equipment at U.S. dealerships to repair the truck's aluminum panels.

So only Ford dealer network body shops will get any subsidized training. How many private body shops can doll out $10,000+ to have their techs trained? The techs sure aren't dgoing to
Don

Don,
If the body shops want to stay up with new technology, then they will have to invest in training and equipment, just like the drivetrain repair shops.

Let's try not being the spin doctor here.... It's quite obvious

[v10superduty]

Perrysburg Dodgeboy wrote:

hone eagle wrote:
better

Ford is subsidizing repair training ,and subsidizing what new tools need to be purchased,however "designed to be easier to repair or replace panels"

That's great if you want to have the dealer only do your body work. If you want to use a private shop then you may run into some issues. The Funny thing about the story you linked, is spin master Mark Levine kind of contradicted himself.

From your link wrote:
DEARBORN, Michigan — Ford has unveiled a collision repair program for dealers and owners of body shops when it comes to fixing the aluminum body panels on the 2015 Ford F-150, a move that should reassure car shoppers, the company told Edmunds.
Then he says this.

Ford will subsidize 20 percent or up to $10,000 for training and equipment at U.S. dealerships to repair the truck's aluminum panels.

So only Ford dealer network body shops will get any subsidized training. How many private body shops can doll out $10,000+ to have their techs trained? The techs sure aren't dgoing to
Don

Hey Don..
Where is the contradiction? The way I read it is


--They will provide a program to "any" shops who want to get involved..

--They will subsidize FORD dealers who do the program..

I think its fair that they will offer the program to ANY body shops but do you really think they would subsidize their dealers competitors?

[TurnThePage]

Typical constructive and useful comment... As usual.

[Hybridhunter]

So as usual, GM is 5 years behind, on paper. In practice, Ford owned Jag which has built aluminum cars for a number of years, and the F150 has ahd an aluminum hood for 6 years. That and the torque monster / throttle response of the current, (and coming) Eco boost engines, and the years of experience with forced induction..... Well it just means that for the foreseeable future, Ford will have the more desirable product....
Unless you like off-brand Diesel engines lol. (and Diesel just hit a 30% premium up here in Manitoba)

[hone_eagle]

Thats what is so great that GM is going aluminum too,all the shops that would of sat on the fence will jump in now .
GM did Ford a big favour

[Perrysburg_Dodg]

hone eagle wrote:
better

Ford is subsidizing repair training ,and subsidizing what new tools need to be purchased,however "designed to be easier to repair or replace panels"

That's great if you want to have the dealer only do your body work. If you want to use a private shop then you may run into some issues. The Funny thing about the story you linked, is spin master Mark Levine kind of contradicted himself.

From your link wrote:
DEARBORN, Michigan — Ford has unveiled a collision repair program for dealers and owners of body shops when it comes to fixing the aluminum body panels on the 2015 Ford F-150, a move that should reassure car shoppers, the company told Edmunds.
Then he says this.

Ford will subsidize 20 percent or up to $10,000 for training and equipment at U.S. dealerships to repair the truck's aluminum panels.

So only Ford dealer network body shops will get any subsidized training. How many private body shops can doll out $10,000+ to have their techs trained? The techs sure aren't dgoing to
Don

[hone_eagle]

better

Ford is subsidizing repair training ,and subsidizing what new tools need to be purchased,however "designed to be easier to repair or replace panels"