Grit dog wrote:Timmo! wrote:
GDE,
Thanks for the mini sermon on cargo weight...unfortunately the discussion here is all about 1/2 tons towing capacity (or lack thereof).
OP's postKeeth1123 wrote:
Looking at these numbers and forums for towing and it is very annoying. Most of these trailers say micro or light but have 900 to 1,000 lb tongue weights. Basically, you need a 2500 to tow anything but a pop-up camper.
My information (although dated to 2005), is from personal experiences and of course from Ford's published info, available here:
https://www.fleet.ford.com/content/dam/aem_fleet/en_us/fleet/towing-guides/Ford_Linc_05RVTTowGuide.p...
Ahhhh, Timmoโฆ.I would t expect you to make the direct connection between cargo cap and towing. Especially base on your last misguided post.
Only a fool would argue that cargo cap has nothing to do with towing cap, but as I have demonstrated, engine size and gear ratios can help separate the men from the boys (F250 vs F150). As I originally stated, comparing my F150 with a F250--both with the same engine and gear ratios--the F250 has a 1000 lb greater cargo cap, but the F150 has a greater towing capacity...9300 vs 9200 lbs (period).
And take special note of the gear ratio data with 5.4L engine...the F150, no real diff between 3.73 and 4.10, but for the F250 there is a 2000 lb increase in both cargo cap AND towing cap. Same engine but different gear ratio....hmmm.
From pages 16 & 17 of the 2005 document I linked earlier.
Timmo! wrote:
Methinks there is more to 1/2 ton vs _____. The gear ratio variable is the wild card with motor size a close 2nd.
My 2005 F150 (5.4L, 4x4 Lariat Supercab and with all the options, 144.5" wheel base) with 3.73 gear ratio has rating (with stabilizer bars) of:
GCWR: 15000 lbs
Max trailer towing: 9300 lbs
The F250/F350 version (5.4L, 4x4, Supercab, 144.5 wheel base with 3.73 gearing)
GCWR: 16000 lbs (1k bonus to F150)
Max trailer towing: 9200 lbs (100 lbs less than F150)
BTW, Ford says the F250 numbers are within a 100 lbs of the F350.
Now, if we change the F250/F350 gear ratio to 4.1, it is a different game.
GCWR: 18000 lbs (3k bonus to F150)
Max trailer towing: 10700 lbs (1400 lb bonus to F150)
And (drum roll please) jumping to from 5.4L to 6.8L engine is where the big jump pops up, the towing capacity increases to 13,600 lbs and 15,100 lbs respectively.
LOL, who would have thought the trailer towing capacity would be 100 lbs less for the F250/F350, when compared to identical engine and gear ratio of my F150.
That's why I purchased an F150 over the F250/F350 to tow my Nash 20' TT (GVWR 7000 lbs)...and it is a joy to drive sans my Nash TT.
Hate to disagree, but everything you have used to justify your choice is based on assumptions.
Towing ratings now days has very little to do with gear ratios for the most part. That is due to the advancements in engine and transmission technology giving lots of HP and TQ to be available to hit the ground.
Vehicle size, frame design, axles, tires, brakes all play a big factor in towing.
In trucks there are additional factors at play, generally the GVWR is used to classify them into groups.
GVWR is the max combination of the curb weight and cargo the vehicle can handle.
Most states use GVWR as a way of sorting out just how much the weight the vehicle will be legally registered to haul. The higher the GVWR the vehicle is registered for, the higher cost to register and license the vehicle.
For instance, PA works this way..
PA Weight classification chart
1/2 ton-1 ton pickups generally fall into Class 1-4.
Class 1 5,000 lbs or less
Class 2 5,001 - 7,000 lbs
Class 3 7,001 - 9,000 lbs
Class 4A 9,001 - 10,000 lbs
Class 4B 10,000 - 11,000 lbs
Note, most "1/2 ton" rated trucks will fall into "class 2" or possibly into class 3 category..
Most 3/4 ton trucks typically fall into class 3 or class 4A category topping out at class 4A.
1 ton trucks typically fall into 4A or 4B category.
Seriously doubt your going to find any trucks that fall into class 1 (5,000 lb or less) now days.
To get around these weight classifications the only resort manufacturers can do is to make the trucks "lose weight"..
How is that done?
Lighten the vehicle by reducing frame size, reducing size of vehicle, use lighter materials which may have more strength per lb, use smaller engines, transmissions, axles, tires wheels.
Going back to GVWR, that is the max gross weight the vehicle is allowed to carry which is is the empty or curb weight plus the cargo weight.
Can't say for GM or Ram, but Ford typically limits F150s GVWRs to 7,200 lbs-7,500 lbs.. with available cargo from 1,000 lbs up to 2,200 lbs depending on cab, bed, spring/axle, and trim configuration.
Your trailer tongue weight becomes "cargo" of the tow vehicle which plays a huge factor in how heavy a trailer you are allowed to tow.
F250s, well lets just say that they have considerably more cargo weight available which allows for much heavier trailers due to having a much higher GVWR classification rating..
F250 can be configured to have a considerably higher available cargo rating without going over the 10,000 lb GVWR classification.
Example..
Yep, that says 3800 lbs of available cargo weight!
That sticker is from my 2020 F250.
Here is the other sticker..
I would love to see anyone show a sticker from their "1/2 ton" with a available cargo that meets or exceeds 3,800 lbs..
Oh, by the way, the newer F250s if you chose a XL standard cab 4x2 gas with short bed can easily have cargo ratings of 4K..
Sure, a F150 (or any 1/2 ton) can tow something large and heavy and even possibly exceed cargo and GVWR of the tow vehicle if you wish. But you do so at the possible cost of higher mechanical failures or damage. You also take chances of not having a stable of a tow as you could have had with a vehicle with higher GVWR ratings.
The beauty of my F250 choices over the yrs is I have so much leftover cargo weight that WD is not needed to restore weight to the front axle and is optional if I wanted to mess with it. I don't, I am well below rear axle rating, front barely lifts (almost not measurable) so nothing needs restored to the front axle.
As far as cost of F250, well we can compare that if you wish, my 2020 F250 4x2 XLT supercab shortbed with 6.2 was $43K out the door cost with no trade.. You will be hard pressed to by a F150 with half the cargo rating for under $60K out the door.
