Half ton towing

[Keeth1123]

Looking at these numbers and forums for towing and it is very annoying. Most of these trailers say micro or light but have 900 to 1,000 lb tongue weights. Basically, you need a 2500 to tow anything but a pop-up camper.

[Mike134]

Grit dog wrote:

GrandpaKip wrote:
Gosh golly gee Batman, there must be thousands and thousands of overloaded Silverado’s, F150s, Ram 1500s and Tundras pulling trailers out there.
Ohhh, the humanity!

That's what gets the internet experts and weight cops all twitterpated, yup, 10-4, correctomundo. Makes for fun debates!

It really becomes like a 6 beer debate at the saloon, only difference folks sitting at a PC chucking beers offering their humble opinions.

Safe travels.

[ferndaleflyer]

I am not a weight nut. Last week I towed about 5000lb trailer with my F-150 and it towed better than anything I have towed in years. Real eye opener as I have always said "you never have to much truck".

[shelbyfv]

My F150 has a payload of only 1500lbs. It's a lightly optioned XLT. The fancier versions may have even less. Add a fiberglass cap and I'd definitely be over with a 1000lb tongue weight. 1/2 ton owners need to check the sticker and make an honest assessment of the other cargo. May be surprising how little tongue weight you can add. The towing limits might have you thinking big trailer but the payload will bring you back to earth.

[Grit_dog]

GrandpaKip wrote:
Gosh golly gee Batman, there must be thousands and thousands of overloaded Silverado’s, F150s, Ram 1500s and Tundras pulling trailers out there.
Ohhh, the humanity!

That's what gets the internet experts and weight cops all twitterpated, yup, 10-4, correctomundo. Makes for fun debates!

[Grit_dog]

Timmo! wrote:

Grit dog wrote:
@Timmo, maybe good time to stop proving your theories with mfg data unless you understand it. There's NO 2000lb payload increase on a F250 due to lower gears. Here's where reading comprehension and understanding vehicle classifications comes in. That chart is for 250/350 srw trucks and the 2000lbs more is a F350 vs a F250....

You a funny guy! So you are saying Ford did not manufacture a 2005 F250, 5.7L with 4.10 that has a GCWR of 18k lbs? You are entitled to your fantasy. But facts are facts....

Nope, I'm not saying that at all, in fact, presuming the chart you posted is correct, you are also correct that a 250 with deeper gears has or should have a correspondingly greater gcwr.

But you said "but for the F250 there is a 2000 lb increase in both cargo cap AND towing cap"

The F250 does NOT have a 2000lb increase in cargo cap, aka payload rating. That chart encompasses 2 different models of trucks that have or can have significantly different gvwrs.
It can't unless the mfg drops a literal ton off the bare weight along with the gearing change, as payload ratings for 3/4 tons are based off of the, relatively low/limited gvwr - curb weight.
And while the deeper gear ratio upping the GCVWR "could" theoretically increase payload rating, it doesn't as the limiting factor for payload isn't the engine and gearing. It could have a 180hp inline 6 and still adequately carry most any payload. The gcvwr is largely related to towing capacity.

PS, it's a 5.4L, but I know that's just a typo.

[01tundra]

GrandpaKip wrote:
Gosh golly gee Batman, there must be thousands and thousands of overloaded Silverado’s, F150s, Ram 1500s and Tundras pulling trailers out there.
Ohhh, the humanity!

I think it really depends on your definition of "overloaded".

If your definition of overloaded is travelling above the manufacturer's specified GVWR of the vehicle, then yes, I'd say there are thousands of people pulling overloaded, and that also includes many 3/4-ton vehicles, based on data I've seen from people who even bother weighing their rigs.

On the other hand, if your definition of overloaded is pulling over the rated "tow capacity"....then most are likely within that magical number.....

Then there's overloaded as in over the rear axle GAWR.

[Timmo_]

Grit dog wrote:
@Timmo, maybe good time to stop proving your theories with mfg data unless you understand it. There's NO 2000lb payload increase on a F250 due to lower gears. Here's where reading comprehension and understanding vehicle classifications comes in. That chart is for 250/350 srw trucks and the 2000lbs more is a F350 vs a F250....

You a funny guy! So you are saying Ford did not manufacture a 2005 F250, 5.7L with 4.10 that has a GCWR of 18k lbs? You are entitled to your fantasy. But facts are facts....

[GrandpaKip]

Gosh golly gee Batman, there must be thousands and thousands of overloaded Silverado’s, F150s, Ram 1500s and Tundras pulling trailers out there.
Ohhh, the humanity!

[01tundra]

goducks10 wrote:
Average TW for Flagstaff Micro Lights is 670 lbs per their brochure weights. For most 1/2 tons thats a good starting point. Most 1/2 ton receivers can handle north of 1,000 lbs.
Average brochure UVW is 5438 lbs.
Again perfect start for 1/2 ton buyers.

The dry tongue weight on our Mini Lite 2109S (the lightest model available) was advertised as 412 lbs.

Lightly loaded ours scales at 660 lbs, that's with lithium batteries mounted in the rear of the trailer, water tanks empty and the front storage area practically empty.

Mini/Micro Lites are very tongue heavy, most of the 25XX series have a loaded tongue weight over 1,000 lbs.

[nickthehunter]

Gdetrailer wrote:
… I would love to see anyone show a sticker from their "1/2 ton" with a available cargo that meets or exceeds 3,800 lbs….

I think you went way off in left field somewhere. The OP doesn’t need anywhere near 3800 lbs of payload to tow the 7800 lbs GVWR trailer he is contemplating. There are plenty of 1/2 tons that will work just fine.

[ford_truck_guy]

Quote from Gdetrailer - "I would love to see anyone show a sticker from their "1/2 ton" with a available cargo that meets or exceeds 3,800 lbs..

Oh, by the way, the newer F250s if you chose a XL standard cab 4x2 gas with short bed can easily have cargo ratings of 4K.." END QUOTE

My 2019 F150 set up to tow, 3.5 eco boost, max tow package, you name it, and it only has a payload of 1526#

My son in law just got his 2022 F250 with 6.7.. It has the Max tow package on there as well that boosts the GCVWR to 30,000#. BUT the payload is only 2796# on the sticker...

So, I agree, there is NO 1/2 ton towable with that type of payload..

[propchef]

Grit dog wrote:

Fun fact, they only did that to appease the folks who don't understand the difference (or lack thereof in this case) between DOT class 2 and class 3 vehicles. In reality, the mfgs, in appeasing the weekend warrior weight cops, screwed up the system for anyone who operates commercially and uses 3/4 tons to stay under DOT driver and vehicle requirements that start with class 3 trucks...unless those commercial operators specifically get a, now, "downgraded" 3/4 ton that is <10klb gvwr.

Thank you. Exactly. The same truck in Canada is topped at 4500k, or 9920 lbs. for similar reasons.

[Grit_dog]

falconbrother wrote:
I have been towing my 5800, dry weight, trailer for 5 years with a Suburban (7200 rated). Never worried about the details.

Nor is it a cause for concern, as you're aware. Many of the "details" either don't matter, real world, or are incorrectly interpreted (as evidenced in this thread).

Now, for those uninformed or without practical experience, knowledge and good judgement to rely on, the OEM's "limits" are the OEM's best attempt at a conservative, works for most all scenarios, while limiting corporate risk to the greatest extent, benchmark that anyone can use without question.

Nothing wrong with folks making conservative decisions. Also nothing wrong with folks making educated decisions, as much as some may argue otherwise.

[Grit_dog]

@Timmo, maybe good time to stop proving your theories with mfg data unless you understand it. There's NO 2000lb payload increase on a F250 due to lower gears. Here's where reading comprehension and understanding vehicle classifications comes in. That chart is for 250/350 srw trucks and the 2000lbs more is a F350 vs a F250.
How do I know? Because neither Ford, nor any other mfg ever put out a "3/4 ton" model with greater than 10klb gvw, until just a couple years ago.
Fun fact, they only did that to appease the folks who don't understand the difference (or lack thereof in this case) between DOT class 2 and class 3 vehicles. In reality, the mfgs, in appeasing the weekend warrior weight cops, screwed up the system for anyone who operates commercially and uses 3/4 tons to stay under DOT driver and vehicle requirements that start with class 3 trucks...unless those commercial operators specifically get a, now, "downgraded" 3/4 ton that is <10klb gvwr.

[goducks10]

I towed a 7200 lb 31' TT with a 2010 F150 Screw, 5.4 3.73 and 1857 CCC for 2.5 years. Never had a serious sway issue and I tow in the PNW and down into CA. I used a 4pt Equalizer WDH at 1st but hated the mess and noise. TT did have a tendency to wander a bit when passing semi's so I found a used Hensley arrow. Towing was as good as it gets with the HA.
Ended up trading up to a Ram 2500 CTD for several reasons. One was that the F150 with a RAWR of 4050 was at 4000 on scales. I had a canopy on it and the bed was loaded to the gills with gear. Also the 6sp trans was pure garbage. No way to lock out 6th or 5th so it hunted all day long. Plus the 5.4 towing 7200 lbs up in the mtns was a big dog especially at 4,000' EL and higher.

To bring all this forward to today if I had an F150 with the 3.5 Eco with Max Tow (Not the HDPP) I would have no issues looking at a TT in the 7000-7500 lb loaded to camp range. I would by a Pro Pride and get on with it. Much less than paying the $$$$ for a 3/4 ton along with the extra $$$ for gas as a DD. The Max Tow package gives you the 36 gal gas tank which would be perfect.