Happy medium between comfort and good gas mileage to haul?

[MookieKat]

Hi everyone! I just joined tonight, because we need your experience and wisdom! What would be your recommendation for the most practical size of TT for a couple in their early 60s who wants to travel around the country visiting national parks? We want something that would be good on gas mileage.

We saw a Fun Finder 18' with slide (around 3,100 lbs) on Craiglslist and it looked good, but then we saw a 21' with slide (around 4,200 lbs.) today and loved the layout and the roominess. However, we do not want something that is hard to maneuver around twisting mountain roads, nor do we want to have to buy a vehicle that is a gas guzzler, so we are torn... What is the happy medium between comfort and maneuverability? What is the sweet spot in comfort and decent gas mileage?

We need a newer vehicle anyway, so we will be buying a used SUV that can tow a trailer and will be great to use as an everyday vehicle, since we do not plan (at this juncture), to go full-time....most likely, we will only be traveling 1-2 months out of the year.

We had considered the Toyota Highlander, which tows 5,000 lbs., but we are not married to that idea. Any advice on a vehicle purchase would be appreciated as well! Thanks in advance for your help!

[MookieKat]

Thanks, dadmomh! We do have some health issues that inhibit lifting heavy weights, bending, twisting, etc.....bad knee and back injuries for both of us, so no, we are not considering any hybrids or popups.

From what we saw yesterday, these are what we DO NOT LIKE:
1. entry next to the bed
2. stepping up higher than 6" into the shower (great potential for a fall)
3. elevated booths where the seat is higher than hip level (very uncomfortable...I do not understand why some makes do it this way in a slide out when others do not)
4. windows around our head at the bed

What I DO LIKE:
1. slide-outs (I don't feel claustrophobic)
2. kitchen counter space (we always cook in because we eat organic and gluten-
free)
3. nice size TV - we do not go out at night, so watching a good movie is
important
4. good storage room for groceries since we eat organic, and stores that sell
organic foods are few and far between...we really need a full-size freezer
for our organic meats!

I don't mind doing laundry on the road.

Hobbies...photography. we are not a collectors of anything, except memories on the camera, so that does not take up any room. We do buy a T-shirt now and then, of places that we visit, but no, we are not shoppers as a hobby, just eye-shopping.

[gmw_photos]

MookieKat wrote:

WoodGlue wrote:
gmw photos, you are correct in that some National Parks, etc you aren't allowed to have a popup/hybrid during certain times of the year, or during high bear activity.

To the OP, if you're looking for good gas mileage, you won't be finding it by towing what is essentially a huge brick down he road. In my case, I have two very boxy units (truck and trailer) I manage to get about 10mpg.

If you're only looking to buy once and buy well, I'd suggest an Ultra Lightweight from Lance. They have a superior build quality, plus a very easy tow-ability factor. Be aware that they are into the 2014 model year and that Lance has a 2 year warranty!

Take a look at the floorplans for Lance with the specs alongside:

Lance Travel Trailers

Their very longest unit is 28' but many of the mid-size models are around 22-23 feet.

I tow a 2014 Lance 1685 and am very happy with it!

WoodGlue

Thank you! These are quite nice!! I think we looked at some yesterday, but the raised booths were difficult for me to get on and off of, since I am rather short. I love the 28' one with the L-counter-tops, since we always cook our own meals and love to cook!

The weights seem pretty close to the Fun Finders.

The details are where you will find a lot of differences in travel trailers, even within a given brand. Here are a couple of things to make you stop and think: one of the things I wanted in a camper was to be able to open the bathroom door while the slide is in. Handy for instance when stopping for lunch while on the road to have access to the bathroom. Not all campers, heck not even all Funfinder brand campers are made this way. So think about these sorts of things when you are looking and comparing.
Here's another thought. You mentioned the raised platform area in the Lance slideout. My funfinder has the slide area flat to the rest of the floor. So why is there a difference ? In this case, the reason is the Lance has raised that area so they can have room underneath for a wheel well that recesses up into the coach area. Yet the overall height outside is the same for the Lance as it is for my Funfinder. So, the question is....where did those extra inches go ? The answer is the Lance has more headroom ( standing distance from the floor to the ceiling ). See what I mean ? Lance effectively "dropped" the floor a few inches, to gain headroom. Something like this "could" be important to you if you happen to be a tall person. I'm not....I am only 5'10", so I have adequate headroom in the funfinder, so that was not something that was a deal breaker for me.

My point is, there are a lot of little details that are different among trailers, and the more specific you can be in shopping your needs and wants, the more likely you will be happy with your purchase.

[rfryer]

MookieKat wrote:
Wow!!!! You you people are awesome!! Thank you so much for all the wonderful and quick responses to my query!!

Here's a new development: There is a chance that we may wind up living in it for 6 months or so....as a transition to see if we like the new area that we are considering moving to.

Well, you’re going to be faced with some conflicting desires you’re going to have to work out. If you’re going to live in it for extended periods of time you’ll appreciate more room, i.e., a bigger TT. If you want to visit the parks and do a lot of mountain driving the smaller and lighter the better. You’ll find more campgrounds you can get into and have more available sites. And small is an easier tow in the mountains.

Forget good gas mileage, air resistance of a TT is such that you’re probably in the 10 to 11MPG area. Weight is a small factor on the flats, but it becomes much bigger when you’re trying to drag it up the mountains. You’d have to go really small to do better, I pull a 16’ 3000# loaded TT with an F150 5.4 and spend a lot of time mountain driving. Overall, I get 14, but I get less on long climbs, in the 9 to 11 area. If I were pulling 5000 to 6000# I’m pretty sure I’d be much closer to the 10 to 11 mpg range overall. I also agree with Terryallan, go for the full size SUV.

My thought if I were in your position would be that most of my use is camping and the extended living would be an aberration. So I’d opt for a TT in the roughly 20’ range. But I’d prefer a ½ ton truck with a cap to an SUV, too. I doubt if there’s a sweet spot between comfort and gas mileage though there likely is between comfort and accessibility to off the beaten path camping. Good luck on your decision.

[Anthony_C]

Take a good look at the newer Ford F150 with the EcoBoost engine and tow haul mode. I get 12.5 avg mpgs towing and around 21-22 without the trailer. The new tow haul mode is so incredible. The way it changes the dynamics of the truck really brings the two together as one.
I couldn't be happier with my truck choice.

[dadmomh]

If I could look at this from a slightly different perspective....you said "early 60's" and essentially some longer trips = more days on the road. Are you thinking one night stops or staying in one location for several days and using that as your home base? We were "early 60's" just a few years ago and the daily or every other day set up/break down is a killer if you don't have the right trailer. Absolutely, positively disagree that a hybrid will get better mileage than a standard TT since we had one for going on 8 seasons. If we made a gas stop and were better than 10 mpg, it's a good day. A PUP is a totally different thing and you would get better mileage, but a hybrid is still pulling the barn door down the road. Don't think that we didn't love our hybrid, because until about a year ago we never considered ourselves with anything else. However.....about 3 years ago we took a 17 day trip to the UP and did the set up/break down thing several times - 3 of them were 1 day stops - and it almost finished us off. That was the only downside on our trip or our hybrid in general. Second, re a hybrid is that if you're planning any of these trips to be in the colder climates or during the winter, heating is not the easiest. It's doable, but there is more work involved and it's just simply not as efficient as a TT. OTOH, there is nothing like towing a 23' trailer weighing 5000 fully outfitted and when you're set up you have 30' of living space. I'd at least take a look and you can rule it in or out depending on your plans.

Do you plan on mainly sightseeing or doing some shopping along the way? Do you have any hobbies that you might want to check out shops related to them? That = needing some room to stash your treasures. How do you feel about having plenty of space for clothes vs not minding to make a laundry stop every 4 or 5 days? We don't mind the laundry stop, while some would sooner die than do laundry on vacation. Cooking - are you planning on fixing most of your meals at the campsite or eating out more often? If you're planning on cooking, make sure what you're looking at will give you the room to enjoy that and have room for the supplies you need. Bathroom/showering....do you want a real bathroom with a shower or tub - you really can't easily use it as a tub, but it's a larger shower - or is a "wet bath" plenty? That's sort of like an encapsulated bathroom like is used often in boats - commode, vanity, sink, shower all in one unit.

Back to that "early 60's" thing. We bought our hybrid in July '06 and had absolutely no problems setting it up, breaking it down, anything. Then there was the hip replacemenht, 2 hand/arm surgeries/other medical issues and we began to think maybe we were on the downhill side of camping. Especially since we were NOT going to get a TT. Take your health into account in whatever you decide.

If you feel like a smaller TT might be good for you, you might check into something like the R-Pod or other similar shaped TT - believe they get a smidge better mileage. Downside of some I've seen is that you have to convert the dinette into a bed every night, so look closely. Forest River makes a line of standard TTs called the Rockwood Mini-Lites that are nice, offer some amenities, somewhat lighter weight than others, but you're still back around that 10 mpg.

We've recently made the change from our ROO 23SS Hybrid to a Rockwood 26' TT. No noticeable difference in mileage. Lots more comfort. If you could find something in the 24' range with some of the amenities you'd like, that might be a good choice.

Re the soft side - PUPs and HTTs - yes there are parks that don't allow them due to bear issues. Most are in the Yellowstone area, but there are some that do allow them.

We tow with an '03 F-150 CC with the 5.4 and factory tow package. It's been perfect. Personal opinion is that you'd be ahead with a pickup of some kind and possibly add a topper if you wanted to. Factory tow package is pretty important. You're going to need a good WDH with sway and a brake controller.

Do as much online as you can, IMHO. You'll save yourself a lot of miles and a lot of "misinformation" from sales folks. Their job is to get you to sign and then it's your problem. You'll get better real-world answers on these forums than from the salesperson.

Suggestion might be that you check out RVWholesalers in Lakeview, OH and also RVDirect. They have a NY location and another somewhere else - when you're over "early 60's" sometimes these details get lost. We have bought both our Rockwood products from RVW and found them great to deal with, but the other upside is that they sell a bunch of brands. You can just sit and look at floorplans and usually they have pictures of both the interior and exterior for each unit. Decide what you really want, the "maybes" and the don't want. Not totally familiar with RVDirect, but believe they are very similar. Prices aren't posted, but if you see something or several somethings that look interesting, they will email you a price quote and that really is the price...no surprises down the road. Even if you decide that you'd prefer to buy from a local dealer, the price quote in hand is a dandy bargaining tool.

You've got a lot of homework to do and a list of priorities to decide about. It's good that you're doing this before rather than after you sign. Good luck and come back any time with questions. There are always folks here that have been there and done that.

[MookieKat]

WoodGlue wrote:
gmw photos, you are correct in that some National Parks, etc you aren't allowed to have a popup/hybrid during certain times of the year, or during high bear activity.

To the OP, if you're looking for good gas mileage, you won't be finding it by towing what is essentially a huge brick down he road. In my case, I have two very boxy units (truck and trailer) I manage to get about 10mpg.

If you're only looking to buy once and buy well, I'd suggest an Ultra Lightweight from Lance. They have a superior build quality, plus a very easy tow-ability factor. Be aware that they are into the 2014 model year and that Lance has a 2 year warranty!

Take a look at the floorplans for Lance with the specs alongside:

Lance Travel Trailers

Their very longest unit is 28' but many of the mid-size models are around 22-23 feet.

I tow a 2014 Lance 1685 and am very happy with it!

WoodGlue

Thank you! These are quite nice!! I think we looked at some yesterday, but the raised booths were difficult for me to get on and off of, since I am rather short. I love the 28' one with the L-counter-tops, since we always cook our own meals and love to cook!

The weights seem pretty close to the Fun Finders.

[MookieKat]

Wow!!!! You you people are awesome!! Thank you so much for all the wonderful and quick responses to my query!!

Here's a new development: There is a chance that we may wind up living in it for 6 months or so....as a transition to see if we like the new area that we are considering moving to.

[gmw_photos]

I just did a search for 'fishing river bridge rv park, yellowstone national park' and they state that because of being close to bear habitat, it is restricted to hard sided campers only.
It seems I have read that in recent years there is more bear activity close to human populations, so apparently that is why these restrictions are now being placed. I guess the bears are getting acclimated to the human presense. Couple that with the liklihood of folks keeping food in their tents or pop ups......and uh oh.....we've got a problem here.....

[ktmrfs]

jma3910 wrote:
I have never heard of any NP or COE or for that matter, any SP that will not allow canvas campers, hybrids, popups, tents. As will anything check for yourself.

I have and I've been to them, try some of the glacier park, yellowstone, and the tetons campgrounds. There are specific campgrounds that will only allow hard side trailers, no canvas sided trailer, no tents.

I think I recall that some Yosemite campgrounds are similar, but can't say with certainty.

And it isn't just in park campgrounds, there are other FS campgrounds I've been to in bear country that will not allow anything but hard sided trailers.

And they often have 'bearproof" boxes at each campsite to store anything food related. No coolers or cooking stuff of any kind are allowed to be outside at night.


Bear problems are to high to allow anything else.

However, in the areas I've been to, other campsites that do allow soft sided trailers or tents haven't been so far away to not have that be an option. Just that your favorite, or the "best" campground may not be one you can use.

so I wouldn't eliminate a soft sided trailer, just be aware there are a few places you may not be allowed into.

[Francesca_Knowl]

jma3910 wrote:
I have never heard of any NP or COE or for that matter, any SP that will not allow canvas campers, hybrids, popups, tents. As will anything check for yourself.

It does happen, but on a very limited basis and in a vanishingly small number of campgrounds. Two that I know of are Fishing Bridge in Yellowstone N.P. (permanent restriction) and Rising Sun in Glacier N.P. All or most other campgrounds in those parks have no such restriction. The restriction is always related to bear activity, reasoning being that they're less likely to tear into hardsided rigs...though if you've ever seen what a bear can do to a CAR, it's hard to believe our flimsy "hardside" trailers afford any better deterrent!

Such restrictions are so rare that I certainly wouldn't factor it in to choice of rig.

[jma3910]

I have never heard of any NP or COE or for that matter, any SP that will not allow canvas campers, hybrids, popups, tents. As will anything check for yourself.

[WoodGlue]

gmw photos, you are correct in that some National Parks, etc you aren't allowed to have a popup/hybrid during certain times of the year, or during high bear activity.

To the OP, if you're looking for good gas mileage, you won't be finding it by towing what is essentially a huge brick down he road. In my case, I have two very boxy units (truck and trailer) I manage to get about 10mpg.

If you're only looking to buy once and buy well, I'd suggest an Ultra Lightweight from Lance. They have a superior build quality, plus a very easy tow-ability factor. Be aware that they are into the 2014 model year and that Lance has a 2 year warranty!

Take a look at the floorplans for Lance with the specs alongside:

Lance Travel Trailers

Their very longest unit is 28' but many of the mid-size models are around 22-23 feet.

I tow a 2014 Lance 1685 and am very happy with it!

WoodGlue

[gmw_photos]

I believe ( someone can correct me if I am wrong on this ) that some national parks do not allow camping in "soft-sided" ( tents, pop-up with canvas sides, etc ) campers.

I pull a funfinder 189FDS ( just under 19' total length ) with a Nissan Frontier ( V6, 4WD, six speed manual trans ) and get between 10 and 13 mpg. My overall average while pulling has been right at 12.5 mpg.
This truck pulls this 3900 pound travel trailer fine.

When not towing, the truck gets 19 to 22 mpg for normal use.

[jma3910]

My wife and I just went through this. There has been lots of discussion on this thread about TV, TT weight etc. All very good info. But one important factor in your post that we share with you is camping in SP's and NP's and COE's. The bigger the rig, the harder to get to some of these places. We bought a new F-150 V8 Super Crew 4x4 and a 2014 Jayco 197. If there is a downside to that size trailer ( <20' )is lack of walk around bed. That was low on our priority list. We are base campers and use our TT for just that. My advice is list your criteria and then prioritize. Our solution works great for us.
Happy Trails!

[profdant139]

Just to confirm -- we have a small trailer and get only 11 mpg. But the small trailer is a lot easier to maneuver in campgrounds and gas stations. Our trailer is about 2500 lb and our truck is rated at 6000 lb -- I wanted a big margin of safety in the mountains. Beefy brakes and transmission for the downhills!