Help us choose a TT (5 kids + 2 adlts)! TV - 07 Expy Ltd

[kooka7]

Hi All,
I hope you are well. (Apologies for the long post, i've included as much info I could think of)...

Hubby and I are at the stage now of exhausting appropriately sized TTs for the family. We have 5 kids, with out eldest 7yrs, then 6 yrs, then 4 yrs, then 3 yrs, then 15 months...

Our TV would be a 2007 Ford Expedition Ltd version, fully loaded if that means anything as far as weight goes?.

I have provided as many specs as I could find in relation to weights etc.... and would dearly love someone to translate for me what is the maximum weight we are able to tow with the expedition. I am slowly coming up-to speed with the lingo but its still all goblidook to me!

In all honesty, I think we may be pushing it with the larger bunkhouse type models but there were a few that we had pinpointed that would suit our needs with a growing family. The main criteria is fitting 5 kids in the rear bunkhouse and hubby is keen on an outdoor kitchen!

There are not alot of RV's so far I have come across that have outdoor kitchens without compromising bunkhouse beds, those that do tend to compromise on a bed in the bunkhouse and some of the quad bunks are out for us as there is no where for no 5 to go...

So the specs on the expy are as follows:

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Manufacturers sticker on rear drivers door
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GVWR:7700LB / 3493kg
Front GAWR - 1610kg
PNBE AV - 3550lb

REAR GAWR - 1928KG
PNBE AR - 4250LB

TYRE SIZE 275X 55R20
RIMS - 20X8.5

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(YELLOW STICKER) TIRE AND LOADING INFORMATION
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The combined weight of occupants and cargo should never exceed 701kg/1547lbs.

CLASS IV HITCH
MAX GROSS TRLR WT (LB) 9200
MAX TONGUE WT (LB) 920
MAX GROSS TRLR WT (LB) - WEIGHT CARRYING - 6000
MAX TONGUE WT (LB) - WEIGHT CARRYING 600

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I have TWO trailer plugs. I have the option of EITHER a 4 pin rectangular plug, OR, a round plug.

Q/ is the round plug referred to as 7 pin? it has 7 prongs as such??

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In the drivers side along the rhs bottom underdash area (where your knee kinda is) I have a small black "BRAKEMAN COMPACT" installed with "REESE" branding. This works, as we have already hooked up a standard U haul type trailer.


I know there are a few questions, but some clarification on tow weight would be super appreciated from those who have the calculations down pat!


As for the models we were looking at, we narrowed things so far down to this type of configuration (again because there is no compromise on having 5 kids at the rear of a bunkhouse):

* 2013 COACHMEN FREEDOM EXPRESS 312BHDS RV
* 2015 Jayco EAGLE 314TSBH
* Keystone 3220BHWE

I know that we also need to factor in the weight of occupants, gear, food etc also....

We would also need to get one of those anti-sway hitch type bars installed. Not sure what brands there are - any suggestions pls?

If there are some folk who could help us out with what we can tow weight wise on the expy we can then be in a better position to determine where we stand and exhaust other options if need to on the TV...

I'm still researching manufacturers and what finishes exterior are suited to the weather in calgary as we would still like to utilise the TT in Autumn as well as the warmer months....


Many thanks for your help,

Cheers,

K7

[kooka7]

PAThwacker wrote:
I'm sure that you have figured out how mainstream society caters to family of 4. Outside of the norm reguires additional vehicles, tt, larger houses, bigger septics, and the list goes on.

We are a large family and LOVE it!! Don't care much for main stream societies perception of what 'they' perceive mainstream to be?? Each to their own. We also put up with stoopid comments from complete strangers too - the classic seems to be 'are they all yours'... personally that is a rude question... and answer = yes, same Hubby too....go figure.... each to their own they eh!

cheers,
K7

[kooka7]

Thsldo wrote:
Can I ask why no one has suggested the Shadow Cruiser 280QBS? It is a lot lighter than the other trailers, and has a full bunk house, and out door kitchen?

it's too small for us, no compromise on that as we want to fit our 5 kids in the back without having one of them sleep on the dinette/couch...

cheers, K7

[Thsldo]

Can I ask why no one has suggested the Shadow Cruiser 280QBS? It is a lot lighter than the other trailers, and has a full bunk house, and out door kitchen?

[PAThwacker]

I'm sure that you have figured out how mainstream society caters to family of 4. Outside of the norm reguires additional vehicles, tt, larger houses, bigger septics, and the list goes on.

[APT]

kooka7 wrote:
Please correct me if I am wrong here, with the 1000lbs receiver limit, how does that translate to 'dry hitch weight'. On the Eagle TT the dry hitch weight (lbs) is '903'...?

This is the sticker on my 2011 2500 Suburban and is the same as the half tons as it is integrated into the chassis.



So 1000 pounds is with weight distribution.

903 dry web site/brochure tongue weight will be 1100-1200 pounds loaded. Some manufacturers do not include weight of propane tanks and options in published in dry weights. And any cargo added in front of the axles will increase tongue weight. 903 pounds dry is way to close to 920 pound receiver limit of an Expy and even my own 1000 pound limit.

There are lighter versions of that floorplan. Keystone Passport 3290BH is one at 6400 pounds dry. Dry TW is listed at 825. I would consider that with my TV and 1000 pound TW limit, but not not a large family and half ton.

The GM 1-ton vans with 6.0L/6-spd have the same drivetrain as my Suburban except 3.42 axle and 2WD only. Owners are very pleased with them towing and not.

[carringb]

The GM 3500 vans are not available with AWD, only the 1500 series. However Quigley will convert the GMs.

You still have weight limit problems. GCWR = 16,000 pounds, curb weight = ~ 6500. Add in 1500 pounds of family and luggage, and you can only tow 8,000 pounds. Kind of the opposite problem of SUVs, because in this case you have plenty of payload, but not enough pull rating.

The GM 6.0 does make more HP, but quite a bit less torque, which means the HP for the GM 6.0 curve is less flat.

The 2500 version has less payload than the 3500, by about 1,000 pounds. It also comes with the 4.8L standard, the 6.0 is optional.

[kooka7]

carringb wrote:

kooka7 wrote:

I think the van scenario is going to be out given it's not a 4wd, we like to go up to banff area and off the beaten track, so yes... agree... 4wd best option.

Factory-approved 4WD can be installed on a "ship-through" basis by either QuadVan or Quigley. Quigely's are the more affordable option,while the QuadVan option drives better on and off-road, and is easier to service because it uses 100% Ford moving parts.

Dealers around here keep 4x4 vans in stock. If you want to see what's at the dealer down the road from me, click here and use the BODY menu to filter to "VANS 4x4".

Also, here's a nice example of a barely used QuadVan V10 4x4 pop-top for sale

Here's more examples: http://www.quadvan.com/product-category/4x4-vans

Thanks for that info and links. That pop-top looks fantastic!!

I was wondering, do you or anyone know much about this particular passenger van?

2014 GMC Savana 3500 1LS Rear-wheel Drive Passenger Van (altho on the build spec to see the price I selected AWD)

I looked on the gm canada site and did a comparison between the likes of the 2014 Ford E-350 Super Duty XL Wagon and the likes of the 014 Mercedes-Benz Sprinter Standard Roof V6 Sprinter 2500 Wagon 144 in followed by the 2014 Nissan NV Passenger NV3500 HD S V8 3dr Rear-wheel Drive Passenger and I thought that the specs 'on print' looked better than the E350.

Interestingly enough, the GMC and the Nissan were the only ones to offer airbags for the passengers other than the front occupants, interestingly enough again, the 2014 ford mentioned above particular Ford has less HP than the GMC....

Is there a huge difference in general between a 2500 and a 3500?

cheers, K7

[carringb]

PS - One more thing.... Now that I have an outdoor kitchen, I could not be without. It is absolutely worth it. No more steaming up the trailer making pasta....No need to wake up the living area guests making breakfast.... Beer fridge is close at hand where you really want it.... Grilling utensils are already outside.

But... be sure you get one with a gas fridge (mine is a 3-way AC/DC/gas). Most of them only have an AC-powered fridge, which is only useful if you RV-park camp. I pretty much boon-dock exclusively so the gas fridge is important.


BTW ^ that spigot has a quick release to hook up a garden hose. It will fill a kiddy pool with warm water off the tank alone, with plenty to spare.

[carringb]

kooka7 wrote:

I think the van scenario is going to be out given it's not a 4wd, we like to go up to banff area and off the beaten track, so yes... agree... 4wd best option.

Factory-approved 4WD can be installed on a "ship-through" basis by either QuadVan or Quigley. Quigely's are the more affordable option,while the QuadVan option drives better on and off-road, and is easier to service because it uses 100% Ford moving parts.

Dealers around here keep 4x4 vans in stock. If you want to see what's at the dealer down the road from me, click here and use the BODY menu to filter to "VANS 4x4".

Also, here's a nice example of a barely used QuadVan V10 4x4 pop-top for sale

Here's more examples: http://www.quadvan.com/product-category/4x4-vans

[carringb]

kooka7 wrote:

Please correct me if I am wrong here, with the 1000lbs receiver limit, how does that translate to 'dry hitch weight'. On the Eagle TT the dry hitch weight (lbs) is '903'...?

Assuming the TV has a class IV receiver hitch, with a weight distribution hitch wouldn't that increase it over 1000lbs?

The 1,000# rating is already assuming you are using weight distribution. Without WD, it is only good for 600 pounds of tongue weight and 5,000 pounds total weight.

Also, be careful with dry weights. It does not include any options. Many trailers now have "mandatory" options which is really just a way to cheat the numbers in their brochures. This often includes things like awnings and microwave. Also, none of the trailer include propane tanks or batteries as those are dealer installed items. A trailer with a "dry" tongue weight of 900 pounds will most likely end up being 1200 pounds or more, and thats before packing or filling the water tank!

[kooka7]

APT wrote:
Exactly what Carringb said. There is only one 2007+ 3/4 ton SUV, but the 1000 pound receiver limit means no to that Jayco Eagle 314. There are however other TTs that are closer to 7k dry that would work pretty well with it. Ford discontinued 3/4 ton SUV after 2005. GM after 2013, but it has that recevier limit at 1000 pounds.

Please correct me if I am wrong here, with the 1000lbs receiver limit, how does that translate to 'dry hitch weight'. On the Eagle TT the dry hitch weight (lbs) is '903'...?

Assuming the TV has a class IV receiver hitch, with a weight distribution hitch wouldn't that increase it over 1000lbs?

Seems a bit daft that manufacturers of the larger suv's have ditched the idea of class IV hitches or not being able to upgrade...

makes the whole process frustrating...

cheers,
K7

[PAThwacker]

kooka7 wrote:

PAThwacker wrote:
Only option for 7 and rear quad bunk tt, plus the other kid on the couch. You need to find spots for 10 towels, multiple extra bedding, and food storage. 100 gallon water, and big honking duramax one ton van.
I have a 2 year old and 5 year old camping,and I have gone through 3 sets of sheets in one night.

I had actually considered a toy hauler and setting the kids on their own camping stretchers LOL! it's doable and I am more than happy to customise and.... much lighter... but for some reason I have found that the toy haulers are slightly more expensive than a TT?? correct me if I am wrong...

I'm hearing you on the wet bed scenario... not sure if they are fully bed time trained, accidents happen, they are kids... I need to consider washing and drying too.... with 5 kids, it's kinda ridiculous so not sure how I will cross that hurdle. I have seen some washer/dryer combos and a mod that someone had done in their TT with a conventional dryer/washer combo, but you need to get the water and the juice (electric) in order to run....

Lots to consider in deed.... hope you got the packing all sorted and you did 't need to throw any punches, it can be frustrating at the best of times trying to get the kids out the door.... let alone packing and organising 'stuff'.... I hear ya!

btw - aim is to not have anyone sleeping on the couch/diner

Cheers,
K7

You need to have all 5 in the back of the TT. It will be tough. I would first get the du
duramax extended one ton passenger van, AWD,and then start looking for dual rear slide bunk room TT. This is a min $75k purchase before you can even consider where the clothes, towels, bedding, and kids needs will get stored.

Camping styles will be limited to full hookups only. We blow through 60 gallons a weekend with 2 kids. Resorts and state parks have onsite laundry. I visuallize 10 bath towels, 10 beach towels, diapers, swimming diapers and bulk laundry detergent.

[kooka7]

2112 wrote:
Another option may be a 36' or so Class A RV.

I say this because if you are buying a new or gently used Super Duty tow vehicle that can seat 7 and a new toy hauler you are in the price range of a well equipped gently used Class A. With a properly configured A you can carry and sleep 7 and it can come with an onboard W/D. There are bunk house floor plans but not very common. Here's one without the W/D Of course it wouldn't become your daily driver.

You may get by with a larger C as well.

Are you set on a TT or FW? There are other options.

With the motorhomes, I'm not sure how all the kids would be seated safely/legally as 3 are in seat belt boosters and the other two are in tethered baby seats and the ones we looked at, had no bunkhouse configurations.

We're not ruling out a specific as such, however preference is a TT given TTs seem to have better floor plans to suit us as a large family. If we could transplant the jayco floorplan into a motorhome without breaking the bank that'd be a consideration 😄

Cheers,
K7

[kooka7]

Genblue wrote:
We have four kids & a dog. My wife fell in love with the Coachmen Freedom Express Liberty/Maple Leaf edition 312 bunkhouse (similar layout to the Jayco 314). After spending months researching various tow vehicle options (just as you're doing now), we decided the best option for us was a 2005 Ford Excursion diesel. Vans were a close 2nd but in the great white North, we need 4wd and didn't want to spend an additional $10k on adding 4wd to a van.

It took us 3 months to find our X but we finally did in Missouri. It was a 16 hour drive each way but it was well worth it (as long as you can live with the extra engine) since it only had 41k on it.

The 6.0L diesel engine has it's issues and we're prepared to spend $5-6k to "bulletproof" the engine in the near future. Now we're on the hunt for a new Coachmen 312.

The 314 is a nice unit but my wife loved the table in the bunkhouse for the times when the kids will need their own space for games, coloring etc. and the Coachmen is a few thousand cheaper than the Jayco but the Jayco is better insulated and offers the outside kitchen.

Good luck as you work through the process.

Thanks, that's a great bunkhouse too. The Jayco does have a flip up table also but the dinette in the back is great and more room!. I think I came across this one and showed hubby and he wasn't sold on there being no outdoor kitchen. IMO, is it really that hard to pack an aluminium table, a camp stove and an extra gas bottle... i'm not so fussed about an outdoor kitchen, i'm more thinking a deep freezer in stead of the whole outdoor kitchen LOL!

I think the van scenario is going to be out given it's not a 4wd, we like to go up to banff area and off the beaten track, so yes... agree... 4wd best option.

I'll need to look into more of the issues surrounding the diesels. I do know that they generally have more on them to go wrong with them and I can do without the headache tbh.

thanks,
K7