Host Cascade and suitable truck

[maxum1989]

I have another thread going talking about the door pillar sticker on a 2015 GMC 3500 hd dually I went and looked at. Door pillar sticker says cargo and passengers shouldn't go over 4887 pounds. I drove this truck today. Its an awesome truck.

I saw the new Cascade camper from Host at the recent Seattle Rv show and fell in love. I contacted Host about this new Cascade camper and optioned the way I would like, it comes in at about 3750 pounds. I actually didn't pick many extra options. This weight is without propane 100 lbs, batteries 120lbs or water 200ish (not full). So before I put any supplies or myself in the truck I'm down to just over 700 pounds. A truck camper this size with as much storage as it has tends to have a lot of things put into it so I'm thinking that 700 pounds isn't going to cut it.

So before a bunch of you say the truck will handle it no problem, I agree, I think it would. The problem is I'm from B.C. where they can and do at times take the truck weight rating seriously. To be fair, I have never seen any of these enforcement setups anywhere in my travels, but they still concern me a little. With this potential enforcement issue in my mind while I try and match a truck to this Cascade camper, I'm trying my best to stay within the trucks weight rating. I think I would own this setup for a very long time so I would like to get it right.

In the other thread, someone eluded to the fact that Ram and Ford have higher weight ratings on their 3500 dually trucks. Can someone with a truck from either of those manufacturers in the 2014 to current year confirm this? I'm hoping for a payload in the 5400 pound area or higher so I can load the camper any way I like for any given trip without concern.

[Kayteg1]

payload - the part of a vehicle's load, especially an aircraft's, from which revenue is derived
Your family/friends sitting in your truck is not a payload, but they add to GVW.

[GeoBoy]

wnjj wrote:

GeoBoy wrote:
When a manufacturer states the maximum payload it doesn’t take into consideration that the load is going to be 12’ to 13’ tall. On my truck the maximum payload is 5,813 lbs., but the maximum truck camper payload is listed at 4,913 lbs..

That difference is usually due to the camper rating assuming 150lbs in each seating position where payload does not. Does your truck have 6 seats?

Payload is payload! It doesn’t care if there are people or not, it is the total sum of whatever is in or on the truck.

[maxum1989]

JIMNLIN wrote:

I think the sentence in your response after (4) is taken out of context. I believe that sentence is from 19.05 Weight scales of the B.C. act. It is explaining how a vehicles weight is calculated by the peace officer. It is in a section explaining the procedure of weighing a vehicle and such. It is not explaining how much weight you can carry.

Sure its how a vehicles gross weight is calculated. Add up the trucks individual 5600 fawr and 9375 rawr = 14975 lbs for its gross weight or as BC uses calls it a GVWR.
And add the trailers gross axle weight numbers GAWR (three 7k axle) = 21000 lbs which is the trailer GVWR. Added together gives the combination a 35975 lb gross combined weight.


(4) The gross weight of any vehicle or combination of vehicles shall be the sum of the individual gross axle weights of all the axles of the vehicle or combination of vehicles.

Any ways if I was going to tow a trailer in BC I would contact their size and weight folks at a troop post and ask them how they determine if a vehicle is overloaded. Asking someone at a 1-800 number in the main office at the state or provincial capital most of the times lead to nowhere or they give you a phone number to a troop post near you.

I really hope you are correct in this. I will stop into a weigh station when I am next near one and try and check. However there is one small thing I think you may be missing in your reading of the way B.C. has written this act.

This:

(4) The gross weight of any vehicle or combination of vehicles shall be the sum of the individual gross axle weights of all the axles of the vehicle or combination of vehicles.

Says: Gross weight. Not gross weight RATING. Which is why I said its just an explanation of how the vehicle weight is measured and does not become the weight rating in B.C. The rating didn't change. Its still just whats on the door pillar.

[JIMNLIN]

I think the sentence in your response after (4) is taken out of context. I believe that sentence is from 19.05 Weight scales of the B.C. act. It is explaining how a vehicles weight is calculated by the peace officer. It is in a section explaining the procedure of weighing a vehicle and such. It is not explaining how much weight you can carry.

Sure its how a vehicles gross weight is calculated. Add up the trucks individual 5600 fawr and 9375 rawr = 14975 lbs for its gross weight or as BC uses calls it a GVWR.
And add the trailers gross axle weight numbers GAWR (three 7k axle) = 21000 lbs which is the trailer GVWR. Added together gives the combination a 35975 lb gross combined weight.


(4) The gross weight of any vehicle or combination of vehicles shall be the sum of the individual gross axle weights of all the axles of the vehicle or combination of vehicles.

Any ways if I was going to tow a trailer in BC I would contact their size and weight folks at a troop post and ask them how they determine if a vehicle is overloaded. Asking someone at a 1-800 number in the main office at the state or provincial capital most of the times lead to nowhere or they give you a phone number to a troop post near you.

[maxum1989]

This from a commercial haulers website concerning how their truck gvwr is determined. Found this on a haulers website thread which was poking fun at rv website myth about the truck makers gvwr determining how much load a truck can legally/safely carry. These guys and gals are scaled every day so they should know what BC says.

BC Motor Vehicle Act Regulations

Weight scales: (1) thru (3) snipped for length

(4) The gross weight of any vehicle or combination of vehicles shall be the sum of the individual gross axle weights of all the axles of the vehicle or combination of vehicles.

Your 3500 DRW won't have any legal or safety issue carrying weight in the bed right up to its 9xxx lbs rawr in BC

If this is the case then yes, I agree, I don't have anything to worry about. This would be great, but I have read that act. I think the sentence in your response after (4) is taken out of context. I believe that sentence is from 19.05 Weight scales of the B.C. act. It is explaining how a vehicles weight is calculated by the peace officer. It is in a section explaining the procedure of weighing a vehicle and such. It is not explaining how much weight you can carry.

Very close to the above explanation about weighing a vehicle is the following under the heading Overload prohibition.

19.11(1) Unless operating under the provisions of an overload permit issued under the Commercial Transport Act, no person shall operate or cause to be operated a vehicle that is loaded in such a manner that the gross weight carried by any axle exceeds the gross weight rating for that axle as specified by the vehicle manufacturer, or the gross vehicle weight exceeds the gross vehicle weight rating for that vehicle as specified by the vehicle manufacturer.

This one pretty much seals the deal. Can't go over GVWR.


I have thought about going to the scales and just asking. Problem with that is you get different answers from different workers there as nobody seems to know what would really happen.
Its a little like going to the border and asking questions there. Depending on the border guard, you get totally different responses to the same question. Been there done that.

Pretty much only two ways to go on this. Just say forget it and overload the truck by a little and take your chances with the possible enforcement issues. Probably things would be alright. After all the majority of campers loaded on pickup trucks are overloaded. Or, get a truck that has a high enough GVWR and don't worry about it ever.

My current camper on my 2500hd is overloaded. Not by much (maybe a few hundred pounds). Never been a problem. Thing is it doesn't look overloaded. My camper is one of the smallest Northern Lites and one would expect that my truck should be able to handle it so it doesn't raise any eyebrows. Its a little different with a camper like the Cascade. That thing looks MASSIVE and just begs the question "what does that thing weigh?" Hence, being looked at a little closer.

I do appreciate every ones input into this. It helps me sort out the right way to handle it.

[wnjj]

GeoBoy wrote:
When a manufacturer states the maximum payload it doesn’t take into consideration that the load is going to be 12’ to 13’ tall. On my truck the maximum payload is 5,813 lbs., but the maximum truck camper payload is listed at 4,913 lbs..

That difference is usually due to the camper rating assuming 150lbs in each seating position where payload does not. Does your truck have 6 seats?

[brholt]

With current model trucks you can get a payload over 6,000 pounds with a gas engine. My 2013 F350 CC DRW Lariat optioned 4x4 has a GVWR of 14,000 pounds and a payload of over 6,200. Carrying a fully loaded AF1150 I'm under the GVWR.

[GeoBoy]

When a manufacturer states the maximum payload it doesn’t take into consideration that the load is going to be 12’ to 13’ tall. On my truck the maximum payload is 5,813 lbs., but the maximum truck camper payload is listed at 4,913 lbs..

[Kayteg1]

hedge wrote:
I don't know what you mean, they get the numbers from the manufacturer. 2nd point in the FAQ

This recreational not commercial.

Don't matter if RV or commercial, registered GVWR is registered GVWR.
Following laws might be different, but number is number.
Now if you don't understand taxable weight v/s technical weight, it is very comparable to income taxes.
The taxable number is always different from earned number. At least for 99.99% Americans.
So when truck can carry "earned" number, you pay taxes on much lower number and that is what factory stickers say under GVWR.

[wnjj]

JIMNLIN wrote:

Area13 wrote:
OP, sorry you have to worry about the Canadian weight police. I think the 2015 GMC 3500 hd dually you are looking at would be a great match for the Cascade.

This from a commercial haulers website concerning how their truck gvwr is determined. Found this on a haulers website thread which was poking fun at rv website myth about the truck makers gvwr determining how much load a truck can legally/safely carry. These guys and gals are scaled every day so they should know what BC says.

BC Motor Vehicle Act Regulations

Weight scales: (1) thru (3) snipped for length

(4) The gross weight of any vehicle or combination of vehicles shall be the sum of the individual gross axle weights of all the axles of the vehicle or combination of vehicles.

Your 3500 DRW won't have any legal or safety issue carrying weight in the bed right up to its 9xxx lbs rawr in BC

When I read the quote you posted here, I read it as the weight is measured by adding the individual weights. It says nothing here about exceeding anything or any rating. It simply says it shall be the sum, not that it shall not exceed GAWR's. In other words, GVW is not the same as GVWR.

[wnjj]

hedge wrote:
It's not a myth, below is a link directly from the BC government website.

https://www2.gov.bc.ca/gov/content/transportation/driving-and-cycling/traveller-information/seasonal...

about 1/2 way down the page:

Motor Vehicle Act Regulations in B.C. prohibit the operation of vehicles that are unsafe or improperly loaded and exceed either the Gross Axle Rating (GAWR) or the Gross Vehicle Weight Rating (GVWR). These regulations apply to recreational towing, utility towing and boat towing.

BC GVWR FAQ

I still think most people would be ok as it still has to 'look' overloaded before they will do anything and there just don't seem to be that many cases of it happening.

If it did though it could be a real hassle.

Have you found the actual BC laws about this? I'd be interested to read them directly. I've found that FAQ's and more general publications aren't always correct, even when government agencies publish them. I've read stuff from Oregon DMV that weren't correctly describing actual ORS (Oregon Revised Statues) law. The ORS is all that matters legally in those cases.

Edit: I see Jim posted much the same response. I'll check out his link.

[JIMNLIN]

hedge wrote:
It's not a myth, below is a link directly from the BC government website.

https://www2.gov.bc.ca/gov/content/transportation/driving-and-cycling/traveller-information/seasonal...

about 1/2 way down the page:

Motor Vehicle Act Regulations in B.C. prohibit the operation of vehicles that are unsafe or improperly loaded and exceed either the Gross Axle Rating (GAWR) or the Gross Vehicle Weight Rating (GVWR). These regulations apply to recreational towing, utility towing and boat towing.

BC GVWR FAQ

I still think most people would be ok as it still has to 'look' overloaded before they will do anything and there just don't seem to be that many cases of it happening.

If it did though it could be a real hassle.

Both clicky links lead to a info sheet and is exactly the ones those haulers were joking about floating around rv websites. The info sheet clicky isn't anything regulatory. If you notice down at the bottom of the sheet it says ;
**Information on this Info sheet is subject to
change without notice. In the event of
conflict with this Info Sheet and the Motor
Vehicle Act and Regulations, the
Acts and Regulations shall apply**

Now go to Motor vehicles Acts and Regulations which is what I posted above IE;....... the sum of the trucks GAWRs can be the trucks new gvwr.

Agree dot isn't about to weigh a non commercial vehicle just because. However they can weigh any vehicle on the road if they so choose.

[hedge]

I don't know what you mean, they get the numbers from the manufacturer. 2nd point in the FAQ

This recreational not commercial.

[Kayteg1]

hedge wrote:
It's not a myth, below is a link directly from the BC government website.

https://www2.gov.bc.ca/gov/content/transportation/driving-and-cycling/traveller-information/seasonal...

about 1/2 way down the page:

Motor Vehicle Act Regulations in B.C. prohibit the operation of vehicles that are unsafe or improperly loaded and exceed either the Gross Axle Rating (GAWR) or the Gross Vehicle Weight Rating (GVWR). These regulations apply to recreational towing, utility towing and boat towing.

BC GVWR FAQ

I still think most people would be ok as it still has to 'look' overloaded before they will do anything and there just don't seem to be that many cases of it happening.

If it did though it could be a real hassle.

Than again, the common lack of understanding on this forum is that only axle ratings are technical numbers and even those can be derated.
The cargo and GVWR are taxable numbers, who can be changed for extra fee.
That is why commercial haulers make fun of this forum.

[hedge]

It's not a myth, below is a link directly from the BC government website.

https://www2.gov.bc.ca/gov/content/transportation/driving-and-cycling/traveller-information/seasonal...

about 1/2 way down the page:

Motor Vehicle Act Regulations in B.C. prohibit the operation of vehicles that are unsafe or improperly loaded and exceed either the Gross Axle Rating (GAWR) or the Gross Vehicle Weight Rating (GVWR). These regulations apply to recreational towing, utility towing and boat towing.

BC GVWR FAQ

I still think most people would be ok as it still has to 'look' overloaded before they will do anything and there just don't seem to be that many cases of it happening.

If it did though it could be a real hassle.