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How to keep from freezing up?

FireGuard
Explorer II
Explorer II
Im selling my ranch to a buddy and may sit out of the real estate market for 6 months or so.
He will allow me to store my things there as well as live in my Lance when I want to stay. Between working and staying at the Fire Station, taking overnight m/c trips and camping other places I would only be staying there around 5-10 days per month.
The problem is that winter is coming and at 5500 ft, the nights can get down to the single digit temps. I will be parked inside a 40x60' metal building but it's not insulated and not heated. The days are well above freezing.
I will have elec hookups and plan to keep an electric heater going and set the thermostat to around 50-60. The camper is a Lance 981 with enclosed tanks and will be on the truck.
I can drain the grey water on the ground but will have hold the black water and dump when needed.
Every place else I will be using it will be around LA and the beach, so no worries on freezing.
Does my plan sound like it will prevent anything from freezing up?
Any other advice or pointers you can think of?
Thanks
13Jeep Wrangler
07 Ragen 21FB
12 Yamaha Super Tenere
14 Suzuki DR 650
18 REPLIES 18

Bedlam
Moderator
Moderator
I would avoid running LPG inside the shed unless you monitor closely for CO. My hot water heater runs on electric or LPG. If yours is LPG only, there is a kit for about $100 that allows you run it on electric. Between the internal electric heater and keeping the hot water heater going, you will be fine. Our TC is set up with a convection/microwave, so when we are on electric hookups, we don't use any LPG.

Host Mammoth 11.5 on Ram 5500 HD

FireGuard
Explorer II
Explorer II
Thanks for all the great info, all valid points .
My advantage is that I will only be staying in these conditions a night or two and then I'll take the rig back down to warmer temps around L.A. If I need to leave it on the mountain, I can winterize it in about 15 min.
It seldom gets in the single digits and if so, only for a few hours. During that time I will be inside with an electric heater and furnace if needed.
I did pull out the rear storage tray and noticed a "T" off the furnace ducting blowing into the basement storage. All tanks are enclosed and get the heat.
Although if I know its going to get that cold, I'll probably head for Malibu or Ventura.
13Jeep Wrangler
07 Ragen 21FB
12 Yamaha Super Tenere
14 Suzuki DR 650

bka0721
Explorer II
Explorer II
A few things have been covered and I will only touch upon these briefly. First I full time and have spent considerable amount of time, long periods, in single digit weather, without winterizing. My opinions are mine and not based on occasional use.

For long term use in cold conditions, I would encourage you to consider these three things;

1. Personal Safety

2. Cold Creep

3. Condensation

4. Personal Comfort


With your personal safety, caution should be exercised in any enclosed area when using any combustible fuel. Even though it is a large building, concentrations of deadly gases can and do build up. In your situation, they will begin to “pool.” While it might not be in concentrations, it can greatly impact your health, in many ways. My suggestion is to follow the advice of the previous comment and use the south side of the structure, or; increase or verify adequate venting is available. Open doors and evacuate the building on a daily basis and, use any combustible fuels sparingly. Use electrical appliances when possible, exclusively.



With Cold Creep, get it out of your head that you are going to keep your temperatures low. That is the first mistake many make in winter/cold conditions is allowing their core temperatures (of their habitat) to creep down. This can possibly damage electrical equipment, water equipment/supplies and foodstuffs. Btggraphix gave me a suggestions, years ago, and that was to use wireless thermometers in recessed areas, like my valve compartment, so as to monitor the temperatures in those areas. I just place the receiver on the wall near my kitchen sink, to monitor these temperature changes.

Some think that they can save money, or for other identified reason, by keeping temperatures low. This will cause very cold temperatures to slowly penetrate the camper, like a thermos bottle working backwards. Also, let’s be honest, many of us are not spring chickens and cold temperatures can and do impact our lives detrimentally and in an emotional way. Already you are going to be impacted by the lack of light (being in a building), shorter daylight, why subject yourself to lower temperatures? Keep your thermostat 70?F to 74?F. I do a lot of extreme measures with my full timing, but I draw the line at being cold.

You have mentioned that you have a dedicated electrical source, so use it! When I am in long term cold areas, I use a number of things, even when I don’t have electricity abundantly. For really cold temperatures, buy two small thermostat controlled electric heaters. Find locations at the lowest portion of your living area and set them there. Or one on the floor and one on a counter, facing where you are sitting. Just ensure they won’t tip over (even though manufacturers are not required to have a tip shut off), especially when pets are around. Also, you will have areas that are susceptible to damage from freezing, such as dump gates and water heaters. Most Lances have these valves inside cabinets and by placing a mechanic’s shop light (with a higher wattage bulb) in these locations, the heat that they generate will keep things from freezing. Make sure that the light is not touching or near anything that can burn or melt (plastic). Last season, I found a very small thermostat controlled electrical heater (Wal-Mart) and placed it in my Gate Valve enclosure area. By plugging the holes, by capping them and stuffing towels in them, you can keep things pretty warm, even in below zero temperatures. (Every few hours I run the generator to power my electrical heating appliances, when off the grid, as well with my furnace). Identify areas where your pipes are and keep those doors/cabinets open (cracked) to allow air circulation. Use this time to check for openings where the cold can creep in. Seal these areas off, by caulking, taping and using solid and batten insulation. I am a big believer of using a trouble light, at night, stuffed into areas to see where the light seeps out, revealing possible leak sources.


Condensation is a curse and hard to get rid of, once it starts getting out of hand. There are many things you can do to minimize this issue, in long term cold weather. Simple things, like; Cooking, boiling water for meals/pasta, heating sources and of course, breathing. For weekenders and short vacations, this is not as much as a problem, as it will be for you and has been for me.

Minimize using heating devices that dispense large volumes of water vapor, such as Wave Heaters. I love my Wave Heater, but with everything, there are compromises. The plus is when you can use the heat and then open the doors and windows, the next day, to literally dry out the camper. That is why most weekenders don’t experience heavy condensation. Try to capture this condensation every morning, by wicking out the window tracks and taking this water outside (towels or rail wicks) to dry. Try to do more cooking outside and refrain from bathing indoors. Yep, a quick hot shower outside can be invigorating, with a simple bucket and garden sprayer, suspended from the ceiling of the building filled from your water heater and mixed with some cold water (now you are seeing why some consider me an extreme boondocker). Be sure to check your cabinets and clothes. You might have to remove everything that can absorb moisture (clothes/foodstuffs) out of cabinets to keep them from growing mold, from the condensation (want to see pictures of a pair of dress shoes of mine that are covered in mold from last winter? I forgot them on the floor of my closet until I found them this summer.). I use sleeping bag stuff sacks to keep my clothes in (shirts, pants, underwear, socks on and on), in the winter time, so they are not stored in cabinets but on the bed or in the cab of the truck. That musty smell is horrible. Also, your mattress and anything touching the outside walls will become saturated with condensation and begin to get musty smelling. Be sure to check for this and take action when you find this. Yes, condensation can be an issue in the winter time, for RV campers. Some of the dehumidifiers do work and available on Amazon.


Personal comfort is important and a great combatant of; “Cabin Fever.” Dress in layers, get some light flannel gloves and a stocking cap, for wear while sleeping. Having a down comforter (Kohls) and a great cold weather sleeping bag, is a great resource as well (you will find the cab over area very cold). Keep your clothes clean and clean them often. It is common for people in these environments to experience “diaper rash” for not changing undergarments frequently. Eating well and comfort type foods ensure your own body heater works well. You are an experienced outdoors person and know this area better than most. Protein diet is important.

With the enclosed building, I would build a composting toilet or use an outside toilet to extend the black tank and dumping cycles.

One of the most important things, have fun and stay in contact with family and friends.

b
08 F550-4X4-CC-6.4L Dsl-206"WB GVWR17,950#
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btggraphix
Explorer
Explorer
No problem if you put in some effort, very closely monitor things and fix/improve any cold spots you find. There is no reason at all you cannot live out of your camper in single digits nights. Just about every camper has cold weather 'flaws' in one way or another....from ducts that are pinched, to lines along outside walls in the basement, to inadequate ventilation/heat through the basement etc. etc. All of them can be dealt with, but do not expect to just park it there unattended for many days in a row without oversight, at least in the beginning of the adventure. But if you live in it and pay close attention and put some work into insulation, re-routing ducts if necessary, ventilation (really, air flow throough) the basement etc. Tons of good threads on insulation and cold weather improvements (look in the TCUniversity to start with.) That Lance is a good base to start from, but I bet you find some big improvments you can make.

Though it isn't practical to winterize constantly, you do need to be prepared to do it in an emergency (no propane, no battery power, blown converter, dead furnace etc.). Do you have an air compressor in the shed? It is good to have practiced winterizing a number of times (whether using air or Pink stuff) so that the first time you do it isn't in a blizzard and seriously cold. That way if you run out of propane (I'd get a 100# bottle rigged up to connect to your system.....you'll go through propane pretty fast) you'll have the dril down. Practice practice practice.

Go for it!

PS: We are living in our camper right now, full time, in Colorado and winter is here. We are sort of splitting time between our house in the mountains (which is now much more inaccesible due to the floods and washed out roads.) It is really nice being able to live warm and comfortably in the camper in the middle of winter weather in Colorado; I'm sure you will do just fine in your scenario.....
2006 LanceMax 1191 - loaded and well-used
2005 C4500/Kodiak 4x4, GVWR 17,500

MN_Ben
Explorer
Explorer
You could place a half full bottle of water under your sink as well as one outside the rig in the shed. When you wake up in the morning, check to see if the water iced up at all. This would give you a good indication of what is happening inside your pipes. I have a feeling you will be just fine. You may want to have a hair dryer handy just in case you need to thaw a line.
2006 F350 Dually PSD
2008 Keystone Laredo 29RL 5th Wheel

2002 F250 7.3 PSD -SOLD
2004 Lance 1130 -SOLD
2005 Lance 981 -SOLD
2000 Lance 1010-SOLD
199? Texan 650 -SOLD
Ford FX4 Ranger -SOLD

FireGuard
Explorer II
Explorer II
Thanks for the posts, all good points.
Its a 40x60 metal bldg with 22' ceiling so it gets plenty of air. Don't think carbon monoxide will be a problem.
I guess if it gets too cold, I'll head for the beach.
13Jeep Wrangler
07 Ragen 21FB
12 Yamaha Super Tenere
14 Suzuki DR 650

notruffinit
Explorer
Explorer
Supposed to get to 27 here tonight. Just went out and opened all the faucets and the Low Point Valves. Furnace at 45. Should be OK.
'11 Ram 3500 Cummins
'12 Cameo 34SB3

bighatnohorse
Explorer II
Explorer II
I think it would be okay. Wind will suck the heat off a camper and you'll be inside.
It sounds very survivable.
2021 Arctic Fox 1150
'15 F350 6.7 diesel dually long bed
Eagle Cap Owners
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Are full of passionate intensity."
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Buzzcut1
Nomad II
Nomad II
In my Lance I can take the pull out tool drawer in the entry step just inside the rear door out. It leads to the basement and waterlines, holding tank. Mine has access holes to those areas and with it out the warm air in the TC will keep those areas from freezing
2011 F350 6.7L Diesel 4x4 CrewCab longbed Dually, 2019 Lance 1062, Torqlift Talons, Fast Guns, upper and lower Stable Loads, Super Hitch, 48" Super Truss, Airlift loadlifter 5000 extreme airbags

insp1505
Explorer
Explorer
Don't forget about the risk of cabin monoxide if you are inside that building and running the furnace and hot water heater if the electricity goes out.

2oldman
Explorer II
Explorer II
FireGuard wrote:
I'm assuming by keeping the inside warm it will prevent freezing.
Yes, and occasionally using water.
"If I'm wearing long pants, I'm too far north" - 2oldman

FireGuard
Explorer II
Explorer II
I will be staying in the TC, so winterizing it would not be practical.
During the day the temp rises well above freezing so the south side wouldn't matter.
My concern is keeping the water from freezing overnight while I'm staying in it.
I'm assuming by keeping the inside warm it will prevent freezing.
13Jeep Wrangler
07 Ragen 21FB
12 Yamaha Super Tenere
14 Suzuki DR 650

MN_Ben
Explorer
Explorer
You could keep the inside doors open to the water lines. Also, you might consider parking up against the south side of the shed, outside the shed. I assume it will be just as cold inside of the shed as it is on the outside, if not colder. If you were against the south wall on the outside, the sun may keep the rig warm shining on your rig and reflecting off the shed.
Just a thought.
2006 F350 Dually PSD
2008 Keystone Laredo 29RL 5th Wheel

2002 F250 7.3 PSD -SOLD
2004 Lance 1130 -SOLD
2005 Lance 981 -SOLD
2000 Lance 1010-SOLD
199? Texan 650 -SOLD
Ford FX4 Ranger -SOLD

fikkellin
Explorer
Explorer
I would just winterize it...Drain water....RV antifreeze in waterlines....antifreeze in drains..takes 10 minutes and saves your propane