Is It Worth It?

[rarin_2go]

I have owned both a gas 1 ton and a diesel 1 ton and do agree that a diesel pulls my trailer better. But at the moment both trucks have went to truck heaven. That is why I am looking for a truck and trying to keep costs down as best as I can. Driving around today I checked the price of diesel vs gas. Today diesel fuel is a $1.04 more expensive than a gal of gas and has been that for quite awhile. Now does the benefits of owning a diesel vs a gas truck justify the extra cost of fuel. Especially when I will probably rarely be in the mountains. I am on the fence about which way to go and need input on your experience with either engines.

Thanks for your input.

[Cummins12V98]

For me Diesel is the only choice for towing. Do like me, have the truck suited for each trailer. 😉

[Grit_dog]

Walaby wrote:
My first five or six trucks in my lifetime were gassers.

My last two were/are diesels.

I'll never go back, even if I quit RVing.

Mike

I agree with your last statement, as we have diesels as well. “just because”, not because they’re absolutely needed. And I’m likely the same way, and have diesels for 3 primary reasons. 1 because I can. 2 because I strongly prefer lots of power in my cars. 3 because for me they are also very practical and useful. (Although the fuel mileage thing ain’t doing so hot on the latest truck…lol. But if it was a gasser it would be a 10-11mpg truck vs 15ish.
However I would roll a supercharged 6.0 LS or 6.4 Hemi truck all day long if I couldn’t have a diesel!

[agesilaus]

blt2ski wrote:

agesilaus wrote:

Cummins12V98 wrote:
What did you like towing with more??? That's your answer.

To a certain extent, but where you will be towing is the most important. Mountain travel, the you need a diesel. Flat lands east of the big muddy, you can live with a gasser.
Of course you can drag your RV up those 7 or 8% grades, but the engine will be working very hard.

7-8% grade is STEEP for an interstate, reality, federal funfed interstates are suppised to be 6% or less, with short spurts to 8. Ive personally necer found interstates geades to be an issue.


Marty

If you are the sort of RVer who never leaves the interstates then fine. But if you want to drive Colorado roads, see Bryce and drive Hwy 12, and otherwise see what this country has to offer. Then no, 7 or 8% grades are mild.

[valhalla360]

Huntindog wrote:
Not only that, but a gas truck with 150K on it is considered by most to be used up. A diesel with the same is considered broke in.

This was true 50yrs ago with fully mechanical, slow turning massively overbuilt big diesels putting out 200hp...compared to carbureted gas engines that needed regular and substantial maintenance and 100k miles was doing good.

Now 250k on a gas engine is nothing special. Usually, it's the body/suspension that has reached the point where it doesn't make sense to keep the truck going. Not the engine.

At the same time, modern diesels are far more complex and the idea it will last forever doesn't hold up as well.

[Lantley]

hondapro wrote:

Walaby wrote:
My first five or six trucks in my lifetime were gassers.

My last two were/are diesels.

I'll never go back, even if I quit RVing.

Mike

I am the same, as long as I am dragging around a RV it will be pulled by a diesel.
I just enjoy the way a diesel pulls for me it is a more relaxing towing experience.

If I was to stop RVing I would go to a gasser most likely in a 1/2 ton.

This^^^
If the plan is to tow regualrly with the truck go diesel.

[hondapro]

Walaby wrote:
My first five or six trucks in my lifetime were gassers.

My last two were/are diesels.

I'll never go back, even if I quit RVing.

Mike

I am the same, as long as I am dragging around a RV it will be pulled by a diesel.
I just enjoy the way a diesel pulls for me it is a more relaxing towing experience.

If I was to stop RVing I would go to a gasser most likely in a 1/2 ton.

[blt2ski]

agesilaus wrote:

Cummins12V98 wrote:
What did you like towing with more??? That's your answer.

To a certain extent, but where you will be towing is the most important. Mountain travel, the you need a diesel. Flat lands east of the big muddy, you can live with a gasser.
Of course you can drag your RV up those 7 or 8% grades, but the engine will be working very hard.

7-8% grade is STEEP for an interstate, reality, federal funfed interstates are suppised to be 6% or less, with short spurts to 8. Ive personally necer found interstates geades to be an issue.
The 10% geades to Timberline, NE Corner of Yellowztone, granted max speed limit is 35, reasinably obtainable if you're producing 100-150hp. If bot, you're going slower get.
If you want to pulo your boat out of on particular ramp or to i know of, you better have a rig that can pull more than a min 12% grade per current tow specs. Or you're stalled out, or you better have a 4lo option.
If you have 400 lb ft of torque, an overall low of around 24-1. Including ra rAtio, trans ratio, or 4lo, you have the ability to pull 20k up a 30-32% grade. Many forest service normal steep grades to really steep local roads. Here in Puget Sound region, it's not hard to find local roads in the 20-25% relm.
Some vehicles like my 26K dump truck, are better low speed steep grade pullers, my 05 Dmax killed speed wise at the same wieght, ie double the speed on an interstate. But would stall out literally on half the % grade of local road.
Choose your poison for the type of driving you do!

I would go with gas in OPs shoes. Quick guestimate with current pricing etc, it would take 150-200k miles to truly pay off the difference in cost to go diesel. That's a hellatious long time for many of us.
Hey, if you got to have a rattler, go for it! I can make any of the current gas rigs over the last 8 or so years work fine, if geared correctly, payload capable etc.

Marty

Marty

[Walaby]

My first five or six trucks in my lifetime were gassers.

My last two were/are diesels.

I'll never go back, even if I quit RVing.

Mike

[agesilaus]

Cummins12V98 wrote:
What did you like towing with more??? That's your answer.

To a certain extent, but where you will be towing is the most important. Mountain travel, the you need a diesel. Flat lands east of the big muddy, you can live with a gasser.
Of course you can drag your RV up those 7 or 8% grades, but the engine will be working very hard.

[PA12DRVR]

For me, although I no longer tow an RV (it was a 39' FW when I last RV'd), I have 2 diesel vehicles and 1 gasser that are used for towing. For most of the towing, I use the F250 so that there is no problem when I'm pulling the boat or the sno go trailer and push down on the pedal, something happens other than a gas engine wrapping up to 5k+rpms. I know it's more semantics than physics, but I'm just more comfortable towing loads that get up into the capacity of the TV if it's diesel. Some concept on the "big" truck: when the equipment trailer needs to be moved, and I hook up to the F550, I know I won't set any speed or mileage records, but it will go.

The Sequoia hauls the jet ski, the kayaks, and the log splitter just fine.

...and as an added thought, it wasn't that long ago (although maybe 8 - 12 months) that diesel was priced lower than gas and fuel cost was cheaper in the F250 for a non-towing road trip than in the Sequoia.

[Huntindog]

valhalla360 wrote:

Cummins12V98 wrote:
What did you like towing with more??? That's your answer.

If you need to sooth your ego and money is a non-issue, by all means get the diesel. They are great fun.

Unless you are doing 30-40k miles per year towing, the fuel savings won't pay for the diesel up charge.

Biggest driver is what are you pulling.
- If you are pulling a 7k lb trailer, go gas.
- If you are pulling an 18k lb trailer, go diesel.

For me the break point is going to be somewhere around 12-15k lb.
- With lots of mountain driving, I would use the lower end of that range.
- With modest mountain driving, I would use the upper end of that range.
- Obviously, check the actual tow and payload ratings.

You don't need to pay for the diesel upcharge. That premium price for the diesel will still be there when you sell it. Not only that, but a gas truck with 150K on it is considered by most to be used up. A diesel with the same is considered broke in. IOW used diesel sell easier/faster than used gas trucks and for more money..... The gas motor fans always leave that part out.... And the fun/ Ego factor is just a bonus for driving a more capable truck.

Gas truck people seem to feel the need make a lot of excucses or rationalizations for their choice.... Diesel tuck owners just smile a lot.

[Grit_dog]

thomas201 wrote:
I got to be friends with two company fleet managers over the years. One with a fleet of hundreds of our type of trucks, the other had several thousand in the US, along with a fleet of heavy duty trucks.

Initial cost, all costs of ownership (fuel, parts, oil, antifreeze, mechanic time and so on), then your exit price when you sell the vehicle. Pass it though Discounted Cash Flow Rate of Return (Internal ROR) and/or Net Present Value, and there you have it. They bought gas unless the usage mandated diesel (heavy loads).

Now for fun, I just loved towing for 10 years with a diesel, but don't confuse that with money. Fun and money, do not normally travel together.

And while that is a good point and virtually every large corporate fleet of pickups is gassers (unless like you said, diesel power being absolutely necessary), there are probably a dozen significant differences between "fleet" considerations and "personal" considerations.

It'll make my fingers hurt, but here's a few.

1. Fleet vehicles generally = multiple or maybe hundreds of different drivers over the course of a vehicles' lifespan. Not conducive to the bit of extra consideration diesels need.
2. Same as above, but far more valuation is lost due to damage on fleet vehicle than an average personal vehicle. IE, a person may have a dump run truck or wood truck for beatin on. Alot of fleet vehicles, they are ALL proverbial wood run trucks...
3. Resale on fleet vehicles is a lower % of initial cost than comparable (cared for) personal vehicles pretty much across the board.
Would you intentionally spend more knowing you're getting a lower ROI, up front?
4. Reliability. Absolutely a factor. And no one would argue that the avg diesel needs a little more care and can have different more expensive problems than an average gasser. For a fleet manager/owner, this combined with higher initial expense, and the factors listed above, tip the scales the other direction.

5. Initial expense is lower with gassers, yet the "fleet" has a diesel somewhere if it's needed. Avg private owner has 1 truck for everything, therefore can't get out of the gasser for week when it's time to tow the 5ver. And $10k/truck over 100 trucks a year is...alot of money saved on the bottom line, for something that will be subject to #1-3 above.

I could keep going, but point is , fleet considerations aren't necessarily synonymous with personal vehicle considerations.
From a personal standpoint, I get a greater ROI out of most vehicles compared to many other people. And a diesel will cost you more if you view it as a throw away Solo cup and not a piece of fine china (true for all vehicles).
I can confidently say that EVERY diesel I've had has returned a greater ROI, all in, than most gassers. And a few gassers have taken a hit that I would not have expected.

[Grit_dog]

theoldwizard1 wrote:
IMHO, diesel does NOT make sense unless you

• Have a load that can't possibly be towed by a gasser
• Drive 50,000+ per year

Preferably, both !

Or don't wanna spend every pull slummin' it at 35mph in the right lane with your 4 ways on with all the OTR Fed Ex trucks and heavy haulers.

Or if you don't have the extra cash to spring for a diesel (that you'll get back later anyway.)

Or if you can't handle an oily pump nozzle.

Or if you think 400hp is alot but don't understand torque.

Or if you like the smell of brake pads in the morning comin' down the mountain after slummin it all the way up.

Or if enough power to do a smoky burnout with a 1500lb tongue weight trailer on dry pavement scares you.

Or....

[thomas201]

I got to be friends with two company fleet managers over the years. One with a fleet of hundreds of our type of trucks, the other had several thousand in the US, along with a fleet of heavy duty trucks.

Initial cost, all costs of ownership (fuel, parts, oil, antifreeze, mechanic time and so on), then your exit price when you sell the vehicle. Pass it though Discounted Cash Flow Rate of Return (Internal ROR) and/or Net Present Value, and there you have it. They bought gas unless the usage mandated diesel (heavy loads).

Now for fun, I just loved towing for 10 years with a diesel, but don't confuse that with money. Fun and money, do not normally travel together.

[Grit_dog]

wanderingaimlessly wrote:
GM's 6.6 with a 10 speed they all are more capable than the gassers of 2017.

IF only GM was smart enough to do that...instead, they get the old 6 speed and only 3.73's just to make sure they're firmly still in 3rd place in the HD gasser power category....