Is the EV transformation of the market over hyped ?

[Lessmore]

Interesting article about IC gas and Diesel and Electrical Vehicles. This would also include tow vehicles.


EV vehicles market domination over hyped ?

In some ways I think the manufacturers are giving us mixed messages. GM says that they will introduce about 20 new EV vehicles by 2023, yet on the other hand have just introduced a new 3 liter , 6 cylinder diesel for their 1500 truck series and new..or at least revamped 6.6 liter IC gas engine and 6.6 liter IC Diesel engine for their 2020 HD pickup truck line.

So what gives, as we used to say in high school ?

[Reisender]

fj12ryder wrote:
So what happens when there are more than a couple people charging their EV's? No one seems to think that will ever happen, and they'll be able to just drive right up and plug in. When was the last time you had to wait at a gas station to fill up, and that only takes a couple minutes to do. What happens when the average "fill up" takes 30 minutes?

Oh yeah, I forgot: "They'll be lots more charging stations". Riiiiiight.

I’m probably not understanding what you are getting at. So yes. There will be more charging stations. A new DCFC location opens up about every week or two in our area. Usually BC hydro puts them on the app as “coming soon” and they appear as a wrench. About 6 months later they broadcast a message on the App that they are live. Three years ago there were like 20 DCFC’s in the province. Now there are over 120 with lots more coming. It will be an ongoing thing. Most people charge at home or work but DCFC’s are needed for road trips.

[pianotuna]

The car I'm most interested in at the moment is the Kona. I did take one for a test drive--but had to drive to Saskatoon to do so, and only one of the two dealers had one.

Orders have to be placed and it takes nearly six months before the vehicle may (or may not) arrive.

I believe that dealerships owners are not happy with the lack of post sale servicing the cars require. I've spent upwards of $600 per year on my Elantra which I purchased as a demo in 2014. It had 20,000 kilometers on it and now has just 68,000. Most of that was put on by the person who was storing my car. Now that I have a place to leave it I will be hard pressed to drive it nearly that far per month.

Dealers may be knocked back to doing tires, brakes, and detailing. And brakes may last a heck of a lot longer if the EV driver is willing to run on the "strong regeneration" setting.

RobertRyan wrote:

freddmc wrote:
I lived in Regina and i doubt a current ev would be able to go anywhere in the winter as all the juice would be used to run th heater non-stop.

Give the Geography it's due where it is no EV friendly you will have little sales

[fj12ryder]

So what happens when there are more than a couple people charging their EV's? No one seems to think that will ever happen, and they'll be able to just drive right up and plug in. When was the last time you had to wait at a gas station to fill up, and that only takes a couple minutes to do. What happens when the average "fill up" takes 30 minutes?

Oh yeah, I forgot: "They'll be lots more charging stations". Riiiiiight.

[Groover]

Reisender wrote:

mich800 wrote:

pianotuna wrote:
A new range record. 2,781km (1,728mi) in 24 hours in a Tesla Model 3 Long Range AWD

??? link to story. What highway did they manage 70+ mph including charge time.

Germany. Autobahns. Much of the time they were at 170 kmh (105 miles) per hour but the average was just over 110 kph (70 mph). The story kind of emphasizes what most of us driving EV’s know. Charge while you are eating lunch, walking the dog, pee break etc. No time lost to charging.

V3 Superchargers are a game changer though. Quick.

https://electrek.co/2019/07/05/tesla-youtuber-breaks-24-hour-electric-car-distance-record/

He drove at about 105mph and roughly doubled the amount of energy needed.
1740 miles at 105 mph means about 17 hours driving and about 7 hours recharging.
Driving at normal speeds would have extended his range on the initial charge and halved the amount of time for additional juice beyond that, reducing his stopped time down to less than 3 hours. Probably more like 2 1/2.
Driving 1740 miles would be at least two full days for me, allowing at least one, if not two overnight charges. So actual time spent waiting for a charge would be maybe and hour and a half.

Not unreasonable at all. And that was with currently available technology. I realize that these charging stations are not readily well distributed yet but the tech is here now and just needs to be replicated. Charge rates are limited in proportion to battery size and trucks will have bigger batteries so with the right chargers should be able to achieve similar results. And with gas station/restaurant combos becoming common on highways you could do that charging while stopped for food.

[RobertRyan]

freddmc wrote:
I lived in Regina and i doubt a current ev would be able to go anywhere in the winter as all the juice would be used to run th heater non-stop.

Give the Geography it's due where it is no EV friendly you will have little sales

[RobertRyan]

fj12ryder wrote:
It's totally immaterial to argue over it. Nobody will convince anyone else, and EV's work well in some markets and not so well in other markets, and are non-existent in still other markets. They aren't going to be a majority any time soon. Maybe 10 years they'll have a significant foothold on either coast, with slow encroachment in the midwest, and midsouth.

Overall in the US and Europe it is a 2% take up, 0.02% in Australia

[RobertRyan]

Lessmore wrote:
Interesting article about IC gas and Diesel and Electrical Vehicles. This would also include tow vehicles.


EV vehicles market domination over hyped ?

In some ways I think the manufacturers are giving us mixed messages. GM says that they will introduce about 20 new EV vehicles by 2023, yet on the other hand have just introduced a new 3 liter , 6 cylinder diesel for their 1500 truck series and new..or at least revamped 6.6 liter IC gas engine and 6.6 liter IC Diesel engine for their 2020 HD pickup truck line.

So what gives, as we used to say in high school ?

Europeans are doing the same but they are making LPG, EV, Diesel as well as Petrol versions of the same vehicle. Hedging all bets

[Reisender]

mich800 wrote:

pianotuna wrote:
A new range record. 2,781km (1,728mi) in 24 hours in a Tesla Model 3 Long Range AWD

??? link to story. What highway did they manage 70+ mph including charge time.

Germany. Autobahns. Much of the time they were at 170 kmh (105 miles) per hour but the average was just over 110 kph (70 mph). The story kind of emphasizes what most of us driving EV’s know. Charge while you are eating lunch, walking the dog, pee break etc. No time lost to charging.

V3 Superchargers are a game changer though. Quick.

https://electrek.co/2019/07/05/tesla-youtuber-breaks-24-hour-electric-car-distance-record/

[Reisender]

Bedlam wrote:
My driving commute is 10 miles per day with an additional 40 miles daily via bus. However once a week I have a 125 mile driving commute. I could use a BEV, but purchase cost still does not compensate for usage. My wife drives a compact ICE vehicle about 7500 miles year and I still cannot get the economics of a BEV to work in her case either.

I see us buying a BEV once prices drop on them or increase too much for an ICE. I drive a 15 year old vehicle while my wife’s is five years old. Both will probably stay with us for 5-10 more years before we consider replacing them.

I think this is a very real world scenario and is literally being played out in our townhouse community everyday. Some of us have made the switch but many are waiting until their existing vehicles need replacing. A lot of the folks in our townhouse community have come to look at our EV’s, check out our garage charging facilities, sometimes even ask for a test drive. Pretty much every one has said they would never buy another gas or diesel car but will wait until their car is a little older or worn out until they switch to a BEV. For many folks this makes good sense. Different budgets, different commutes all come into play but it is interesting to hear the various approaches to the migration to BEV’s. Having said that we have very few trucks in our community. The response would obviously be different if there was a towing or hauling need. But cars, we just saw another older Volvo get replaced by another model 3 Tesla last week. They are delivering something like 60 to 90 a day in the Vancouver delivery centre right now.

[mich800]

pianotuna wrote:
A new range record. 2,781km (1,728mi) in 24 hours in a Tesla Model 3 Long Range AWD

??? link to story. What highway did they manage 70+ mph including charge time.

[Bedlam]

My driving commute is 10 miles per day with an additional 40 miles daily via bus. However once a week I have a 125 mile driving commute. I could use a BEV, but purchase cost still does not compensate for usage. My wife drives a compact ICE vehicle about 7500 miles year and I still cannot get the economics of a BEV to work in her case either.

I see us buying a BEV once prices drop on them or increase too much for an ICE. I drive a 15 year old vehicle while my wife’s is five years old. Both will probably stay with us for 5-10 more years before we consider replacing them.

[pianotuna]

A new range record. 2,781km (1,728mi) in 24 hours in a Tesla Model 3 Long Range AWD

[time2roll]

As much as the EV is over hyped.... the obstructions to ownership are also a bit over hyped.

[time2roll]

Groover wrote:
Pretty much if you don't have access to SuperChargers you don't go far from home. And you still have to get a Tesla to access SuperChargers. Tesla has offered to share their network with anyone else willing to help bear the cost but no-one else has stepped up so far. I think that is going to be the biggest impediment to EV sales.

Actually the network of public L3 charging has finally started to take off with Electrify America as part of the VW-Diesel emissions scandal settlement. Coverage should be very good to go nation wide in another 18 months. Not quite the same coverage as the Tesla network but very comparable charging speeds.

[fj12ryder]

It's totally immaterial to argue over it. Nobody will convince anyone else, and EV's work well in some markets and not so well in other markets, and are non-existent in still other markets. They aren't going to be a majority any time soon. Maybe 10 years they'll have a significant foothold on either coast, with slow encroachment in the midwest, and midsouth.