Just a few things to stir the pot.

[KKELLER14K]

Why don't they just make everything with LED from the factory all around the RV??? Inside and outside?...WTH?? Antiquated building tech and the old school of RV building needs to bow out...get in the now. This is where the builders can and should offer new tech...come on now.. we as consumers are getting the sham!! Forget the old school lighting. OH! but now it gets so expensive and they can't make a buck? The most seasoned RV people would pay to have something that will last and consume less power but I just want to know why we can't make them lighter and way more warmer?...someone just has to find a way...I have a question..an airplane can fly at 30 thousand feet with temperatures at -50 below with a skin no more than 4 inches and keep the temperature at a 65 to 70??...how is that possible?? Someone please explain that..regardless of the RV world on earth,. Explain it to us how is that possible?? Air friction perhaps? Regardless, I still question the builders bottom line. Bigger is not always better...slides are pretty much out.... the maintenance, weight, and leakage is not worth it ...but it just gets more complicated and this should not be what camping with an RV should be about...ok slam me all you want but...this is what we do here. Open opinions are welcome just don't slam me personally... I just think we have gotten to big and it is not where I want to go....I love to glamp and tents are out in my opinion but the RV has pushed the limits as to size and functionality...agree? disagree? Open for discussion...

[classic_31]

I still remember the days of going in a coffee can.it wasn't fun .a 30 gallon black tank looks mighty good now.

[wnjj]

Grit dog wrote:
But who needs a 30gal sht tank when the fw tank is only 50gal?

I think the idea is that fresh can be replenished and even gray dumped easier than dealing with the black tank. That will determine when the rig has to move.

[Grit_dog]

I'll add to the original post!
Why do some new campers still look like a model kitchen from a 1990 edition of Better Homes and Gardens??
Now Cirrus and that other new brand look more modern. But the other one has backasswards tank sizes. Put big fresh and gray tanks in. Don't gotta fill them all the way if you don't want to. But who needs a 30gal sht tank when the fw tank is only 50gal? Someone with colitis maybe?

My 03 and previous 05 AF campers have been good, quality wise IMO, but I'm a light user. hard to break stuff stored in the shop 350 days a year!
However, real wood cabinets, oak fronts at that? Upholstery patterns that look like a bad shirt from 1987? Ugly AND heavy!
Carpet on the ceiling? Come the f on....really?
None of that stuff really bothers me, not in it for the style points, but dayum....maybe that was still in style in Idaho or wherever it was built in the early 2000s....

[bgum]

First 25 ft travel trailer
Second 35 ft MH
Third 35 ft fifth wheel
Fourth 19 ft tt
Fifth 23 ft tt
Sixth 16 ft tt


Many factors involved here such as fuel costs age ease of use ect. Currently led lights in and out from factory.

[classic_31]

It really don't matter how well they are built you will still get a certain amount of buyers that think they are junk.they could be built at the space center and some one would not be happy because of the poop pile that built up because they forgot to put water on the toilet to them they are all junk.

[Kayteg1]

It is common that branch using less parts usually gets leftover parts from bigger brothers.
How-come all automotive engines in US went to FI back in 1980's while boat engines still have carburetors in 2000's ?
That is why you get old stock lights in campers.
Coming to insulation - the customer gets what customer asks for.
I did own all-metal 40 foot bus conversion. All it needed for heating in 50F nights was single 1500W electric heater. The 2" walls had all spray-on polyurethane foam what made better insulation that average house has in 4" walls.
The bus was build in 1972, so technology is not new at all, just expensive.
I still think those are secondary issues.
Ask manufacturer of any motorhome that cost less than $1 mil what is the roll-over ratings?
With campers we had sample just weeks ago, when accident in Bakersfield, CA show how cheap ties can flip the camper over and crush the owners in truck cabin.
People buy campers for big screens and basement storage, not for safety of driving.
If you don't educate the buyers, they will always shop around with "cheap" in mind.

[palmwhit]

Not that I completely disagree but, most everything about RV's is a compromise or balance. Most consumers exercise a decision to not buy if a product doesn't suit them. Products usually evolve to the demands of the market or go out of business when people stop buying. You have that option.
On the other hand, you can customize to your own liking, which is what most of us have done.
Communication directly with one or more manufacturer's by way of group or associations usually starts a process that will produce results as well. Of course the ultimate option for any one with all the answers is to go into the business yourself! You'll soon find out if you're on to something.
We've had our Lance since the fall of '05, while there are a few minor annoyances, by and large we are still very happy with the overall quality and features.

[1mtnman]

I'm with you regarding Northstar. They are very well built, simple to operate and efficient with all LED's including landing lights on each side and the rear. In my opinion truck campers have come a long ways in the actual construction and innovated methods to make them more user friendly in the way they operate.

[burningman]

JimK-NY wrote:


Even years ago, many if not most campers were built poorly.

Oh absolutely. I just avoid too-new ones because I’m not willing to sink that much $$ into one of these things. If they were built like an Airstream I’d want one but they’d cost $100k. And old Avions are too small for what I want.

[mkirsch]

The most seasoned RV people would pay...

You hit on the reason why things are the way they are and didn't even realize it... The "most seasoned RV people" are the smallest segment of the market!

Most of your sales come from first-timers, and they're just looking for the cheapest thing they can buy, the lowest payment. They don't know from construction, insulation, power consumption, durability, longevity... They just see that one costs more, this one costs less, and they look the same, so we'll take the one that costs less.

[jmtandem]

Why don't they just make everything with LED from the factory all around the RV??? Inside and outside?...WTH?? Antiquated building tech and the old school of RV building needs to bow out...get in the now. This is where the builders can and should offer new tech...come on now.. we as consumers are getting the sham!! Forget the old school lighting. OH! but now it gets so expensive and they can't make a buck? The most seasoned RV people would pay to have something that will last and consume less power but I just want to know why we can't make them lighter and way more warmer?...someone just has to find a way...I have a question..an airplane can fly at 30 thousand feet with temperatures at -50 below with a skin no more than 4 inches and keep the temperature at a 65 to 70??...how is that possible?? Someone please explain that..regardless of the RV world on earth,. Explain it to us how is that possible?? Air friction perhaps? Regardless, I still question the builders bottom line. Bigger is not always better...slides are pretty much out.... the maintenance, weight, and leakage is not worth it ...but it just gets more complicated and this should not be what camping with an RV should be about...ok slam me all you want but...this is what we do here. Open opinions are welcome just don't slam me personally... I just think we have gotten to big and it is not where I want to go....I love to glamp and tents are out in my opinion but the RV has pushed the limits as to size and functionality...agree? disagree? Open for discussion...

A lot of RV manufacturers still use build techniques from the 1980's or before. But want today's prices for them. Look at blah unexciting interiors, heaters with fans that take lots of power, make noise, and often heat unevenly. Traditional tank water heaters. Cirrus and a few others are breaking into new territory but most manufacturers just keep making the same stuff over and over again. And consumers keep purchasing what they make.

[BradW]

joerg68 wrote:
Paragraphs are your friend.

The paragraph is a good thing. 🙂

Brad

[Lwiddis]

Gary, my 2015 Winnie TT had two incandescent bulbs...stove hood and outside light...from the factory. Changing them was easy.

[JimK-NY]

burningman wrote:
Most have gone LED.
A million things could be a whole lot better, I refuse to buy a new or late model because they’re so poorly built - but, if they did them right they’d cost an extremely prohibitive amount.

I have a Northstar TC. From what I can tell Northstar has been building campers the same way for decades. The only differences are minor and include some better more modern materials and accessories.

Even years ago, many if not most campers were built poorly.

[burningman]

Most have gone LED.
A million things could be a whole lot better, I refuse to buy a new or late model because they’re so poorly built - but, if they did them right they’d cost an extremely prohibitive amount.