Loosening tie downs for off road TC'ing

Jefe 4x4 wrote:
If I know the frame is going to be twisted up mightily, I'll jump out with my handy pair of 3/4" open end wrenches and loosen the rears. Again why the rears? .....

EXACTLY my approach. Back off on the rears ONLY. I have foam blocks also in all the right places around the tub in truck bed, which can deform enough, but not too much to allow our camper tub to pivot. Once road/track/trail is back to flatish, I cinch down the rears again. One thing: when I back off the rears, my speed almost never exceeds about 10~12 miles an hour (but I do mostly slower speeds). As you mention, driving with backed-off tiedowns at speed on standard road surfaces is a very bad idea...

I've seen that video posted before here on the forum.

But watched it again and enjoyed it just as much if not more than the first time. Great job to all!

And really, to understand my whole purpose in this thread, just watch the video again and concentrate on the roof of each pickup and the comparative varying angles of the truck camper just adjacent to the roof.

Yep, definite flexing going on!

Great video! Thanks. I suppose that would be a little much for my Dually and AF...

wintersun wrote:
Dumb idea to undo the turnbuckles as it increases the loading on the outer wheel which is not good and it increases movement/rocking of the camper which is not good and it provides zero benefits.

Want to do a lot of trail running get a popup camper or pull a high clearance popup trailer. This is what everyone else does who is not clueless. Or remove the camper, run the trails, then come back and re-load the camper onto the truck.

You really need to read jefe4x4 posting and the link he has posted. I've been on 3 XTC adventures with jefe4x4, two on the Mojave Trail and one on the White Rim Trail in Canyonlands, Utah. We both have hardsides of similar design and weight. Your premise of only using pop-up and/or high clearance expedition trailers for trail running is like a cup with a hole in it, it doesn't hold water.




click on pic for video

Jefe:

thanks sir, and great to hear from you again.

I took the liberty of making the link in your post into one that can be clicked.

Jefe 4X4 down the page with photos

Good info. I also have wooden framed camper, so will surely take these suggestions to heart.

One final question. My camper is the 10-8 version SnowRiver. Considering the length, and overhang off the rear of the truck, would the rear deflection be as much of an issue as it was in your shorter camper???????

EDIT: went and measured lengths from the marked center of gravity on my camper. Excluding the overhang, bed area, it is 44 inches back from the front wall. 86 inches forward from the rear wall.

I'm baaack. The last time I looked on here was before Christmas. Bro John and I with spouses are meeting in Death Valley on Monday for 8 days of frame twisting, tie down loosening fun. So, I thought I'd look on Roads and Routes for any info on the Trona-Wildrose road closure. Alex called me last hour and said it is definitely closed.
Here are a few facts about the physics of truck campers and their attendant trucks.
1. All truck frames flex. Fords flex more than Dodges. I don't know about Chevy. Long beds flex more than short beds. That longer arc and attendant leverage.
2. All truck beds, be they all metal standard pick up , or flat bed with boards or aluminum with cross members WILL flex, pulled right along with the FOUR bolts that tie the bed to the frame of the truck. Before i discovered the frame flexing/too tight tie down situation I actually pulled one of the four bolts right thru the anchor point,(pass side front) which points out where the stress is.
3. If the Truck Camper box is tied to the bed or frame of the truck too tightly it WILL eventually be pulled apart, little by little, only on undulating roads. Ifl you never get your axles twisted up, you are home free in this regard. This is painfully more true with older wooden frame campers. I have seen this with my own eyes on my Camper and on two Campers (on this forum) I've watched over time, one of which is owned by someone (who shall go nameless) who responded to this thread. Having spring loaded tie downs that have the spring load squeezed out of them do no good in this situation. Mine are spring loaded in front and for highway travel I keep them just snugged up to about 20 pound feet of torque (just a guess). Snug is the key. The rears, per Lance's engineers, and maybe bean counters, use the rear bumper as part of the increasing load tie down spring. I have gotten used to 'working' the tie downs to fit the road surface. If you never get your axles twisted up, you are home free in this regard. Go to another great thread on pivoting frames. Scroll to the bottom:
http://www.expeditionportal.com/forum/threads/25494-pivoting-frames-and-mounting-campers/page36?highlight=pivot
Do have a look at the entire thread. It's like nothing you have ever seen on here.
Your job is to mitigate the stress. How does that work? If I know the frame is going to be twisted up mightily, I'll jump out with my handy pair of 3/4" open end wrenches and loosen the rears. Again why the rears? There is much less weight on the rear jacks (at least on my puny little Lance) so it is easier for one end or the other of the rear of the camper box to 'lift' slightly, staying square and NOT follow the advice of the truck bed, the truck frame and those tinky, FOUR, 3/8" bolts holding the bed on, and NOT try to rack the camper box frame.
I have no qualms with those of you that have found other solutions.
I had a little saying in College. It went like this:
1. We know what we know.
2. We don't know what we don't know.
3. But, we don't know that we don't know what we don't know.
This also works when I look in the mirror.
regards, as always, jefe

jimh425 wrote:
Seems like people should slow down and watch how far they go offroad with a heavy load. I don't know about you, but I've seen lots of twisted frame pickups on hilly farm land from hauling hay.

Somehow, hauling a camper on a off camber or otherwise tilted road seems to be recipe for disaster. No doubt the frames will bend, but the question is will the bend back. :) For a one time thing, I'd say it might be better to unhook the tiedowns, but the problem with that is that the bed would then flex more than normal.

Speed has nothing to do with it, and it's not so much the off camber road as it is the not graded for years road with the rock raising first one front wheel several inches above the other three than the rear several inches above the others with a pothole doing the opposite a few more feet down the road, then repeat at random. That is the twisting action I don't want imparted to my camper tiedown points. Anybody traveling that type of road at any sort of speed deserves the damage they get as well as the tow truck bill.

anutami wrote:

wintersun wrote:
Dumb idea to undo the turnbuckles as it increases the loading on the outer wheel which is not good and it increases movement/rocking of the camper which is not good and it provides zero benefits.

Want to do a lot of trail running get a popup camper or pull a high clearance popup trailer. This is what everyone else does who is not clueless. Or remove the camper, run the trails, then come back and re-load the camper onto the truck.

You seem to be clueless as to why many people get a truck camper and what many veteran offroaders are doing and what we can learn from them. Nobody is talking about undoing any tie downs just loosing them.

you may want take a few pointers from this guy who has been offroading his entire life.

Jefe4x4 Part 1

Jefe4x4 Part 2

"Jefe: Without a 3-point or 4-point truck camper attachment system on a flatbed, I have relied on "working" the four tie downs to be appropriate to the road surface. The frames on all pickup trucks are built to flex/tweak/rack. The truck bed will flex right along with it. This all depends on road surface and how twisted up you allow the axles. If you do not considerably loosen the rearmost tie-downs crawling over an undulating road surface, the twisting frame will try to pull your truck camper apart, little by little, by making the camper conform to the truck bed and frame twisting. Why the rearmost? In jacking the truck camper up above the truck bed for removal, I noticed most of the weight of the truck camper is on the forward jacks. Hmm? Little weight on the rear, at least on mine. I allow the rear of the truck camper frame to "float" and actually lift off the bed on one side or the other, trying not to conform to the twisting frame/bed, just follow the attitude of the front tie-downs. For off-roading, there is no room for camper jacks. They are just heavy outriggers ready to make contact with a slowly passing boulder. I remove them as soon as the camper is on the truck and leave them at home. Another issue I have pursued is to store nothing on the roof; all weighty items should be stored as low as possible. Potato chips, tea bags, and beer cozies; up high."

My only question is where is Jefe4x4? Haven't seen a post from him in awhile and I am sure he would have chimed in on this, but is probably on some 4x4 trail with his loosened tie downs...What a moron, he should get a pop up camper or trailer.

Great article.

Seems like people should slow down and watch how far they go offroad with a heavy load. I don't know about you, but I've seen lots of twisted frame pickups on hilly farm land from hauling hay.

Somehow, hauling a camper on a off camber or otherwise tilted road seems to be recipe for disaster. No doubt the frames will bend, but the question is will the bend back. :) For a one time thing, I'd say it might be better to unhook the tiedowns, but the problem with that is that the bed would then flex more than normal.

You need one big spring tie down in the center rear of your TC and you would be fine.