Lost the Transmission Today - WED 10/2 Update

[BurbMan]

*Update at end of thread*

Well at 144K miles it finally gave up. Had a great drive today down to Western KY for some camping. Campsite was challenging to say the least...trees on both sides of the road, high blacktop edges to back over but I was getting it done and looking forward to a cold one when I got her in the spot.

Much maneuvering and watching the trans temp hit 220, which it has never done, but one last push and I am in the site. Shift to reverse, and nothing...no noise, no drama, no puked fluid, just no motion....and here is where I am:



I unhitched the TT and Good Sam sent a flatbed to park the TT in the site. I had a tow strap and a fellow camper pulled me back out of the neighboring site. Still have all forward gears, just no reverse. Drove it around the CG, pulls strong and lots of torque, shifts fine, just wont go backwards...

Went in and had a beer waiting for the tow truck



The word from the locals here is to go with a Jasper rebuilt and hav it installed by a local mechanic...apparently the last good trans rebuilder here retired and now there are none.

Anybody know of a good shop in the area that can rebuild a 4L80E please post or PM or text me 631.404.0131 ASAP. I am at Kenlake resort on 80 just west of LBL.

[BurbMan]

Ironically just changed the fluid and filter a few months ago..Dex VI full synthetic.

I used to use 4-LO all the time on the beach when siting the camper for exactly that reason, it was much less stress on the transmission. Unfortunately I was making tight turns on asphalt so would have been too much binding on the drivetrain to be in 4WD, let alone LO range.

I got a good recommendation on a local shop from a fellow RV.net member who lives here in Murray, KY, and they are also a Jasper dealer. So have decided to go with a Jasper reman unit installed by the local shop. Not a transmission shop per se but a good mechanics shop. A little pricey at $3200 (that's all in, unit and labor), but Jasper units come with a 3 year 100,000 mi warranty and have over 2000 dealers nationwide. Buddy who owns a shop back in NY is also a Jasper dealer and he advises that they are very good at honoring warranties, not nitpickers like others. If the unit goes south during the warranty period, just take it into a Jasper dealer, Jasper send out a new unit and pays the local shop to install it, no questions asked.

The 4L80E is a strong unit and since the engine is stock, really no need for a custom rebuild with "bulletproof" parts. Most of the specialized hot rod 4L80E builders tune these to hold 750+ HP for racing applications. That said, there are few "weak" parts in the 4L80E that Jasper supposedly addresses in their rebuilds. This trans has performed well towing for 144k miles. Temps have never been over 200 even in stop-n-go NYC traffic at 90* towing the TT, so not sure I would gain anything from an aux cooler.

So I drop it off at the shop this morning and start looking for a rental car...and there are none in town. Wind up calling the local shop back and he advises that he wasn't planning to tear it down until Monday afternoon, and should be done by Tuesday. So I wind up going back to get the truck so I can get around down here over the weekend.

Truck runs absolutely mint, shifts great and pulls strong off the line....just won't go backwards. If you want to have some fun, drive around and every time you go to make a turn ask yourself "If I make this turn will I have to back up at some point?"....LOL....fortunately the CG is not crowded and I can loop through a few adjacent sites and park on the site next to mine. Hopefully it stays relatively empty through the weekend.

Fortunately I work remote and brought my laptop and aircard, Verizon has 4G coverage here at the CG, so I can hang a couple extra days and get some work done.

Was thinking that you need to break in a rear axle for 500 miles before towing...do you need to break in a transmission before towing? Current plan is to roll the truck out of the shop and connect it to the trailer...should I spend a day driving around first?

[BenK]

Don, consider installing another external ATF cooler, as you camp in some tough
on automatic tranny places...me thinks you have lots of 'boy racer' in you too... 🙂

Stacked plate and either parallel or series to the existing OEM stacked plate

Have made my own with electric fan and thermal switch (plus manual switch) parts
in ready for the day when mine is rebuilt. No bypass, as long as the ATF goes
into the OEM radiator's in-tank ATF cooler

Series...on the 'tranny out' line to the OEM in-tank ATF cooler

Did one for a buddy who had a '95 7.4L TBI Sub and we could see the dash eng
temp gauge cool down when his 2nd external ATF cooler kicked in. He was noodling
a severe duty fan clutch like mine, but we lost touch and don't know what happened

He towed a huge dirt bike trailer and off roading when all that
cooling needed for ATF.

[BenK]

Yes, brazed vanes and first learned of that around 1974 when burned up my
73 K5's automatic off roading up in Idaho's Panhandle. Even in compound low
but no locking TC back then

Limped out to Lewiston or was it Clarkston (Always confuse'm, but on the Idaho
side) and found a OLD guy just closing his shop. Talked him into rebuilding
it that nite...his condition...cash double cost and I had to hands on help.

Had me braze each fin and the only other guy ever found that did that has passed
away and why am so interested in how it goes...as my 4L80E no longer shifts
well.

Add that heat reduction one of the biggest in maintaining it well. LOL when
folks advise it is 'good for it' into the mid 200's degF...going up there
often and/or sustaining it up there shortens the life of any automatic, IMHO

[spoon059]

Burbman, let us know what the final result is. Sorry about your luck, I'm surprised you had trouble so early especially since you have been on top of fluid changes. Hopefully its something inexpensive and quick to repair!

[Gale_Hawkins]

Over the years I have found while Cunningham's is not the cheapest but it is the least expensive shop for our automotive needs from MH on down. Being 20 miles from LBL they do keep some high end boat engines tuned as well.

I see Jasper has gone to 100K coverage. It was the fact they remanufacture vs rebuild and have nationwide repair coverage that impressed me. We are at 100K on our 4L60 Jasper without issues. It replaced the second transmission that went out at 107K miles so it has lasted as long as the OEM and one no name replacement.

Hopefully you will be good for another 150K miles. When towing a strong transmission reduces stress. 🙂

Something I noticed about Jasper reman vs a shop rebuild.

[tluxon]

BurbMan wrote:
...
Much maneuvering and watching the trans temp hit 220, which it has never done, but one last push and I am in the site. Shift to reverse, and nothing...no noise, no drama, no puked fluid, just no motion....and here is where I am:
...

Bummer. Brings me back to the time we had a shift cable break on us when backing into a site, only at least we had gotten the TT several feet off the road and within about 6 feet of where we were going to set it up anyway.

Hope the repair goes well.

[Gale_Hawkins]

carringb wrote:
Good read on the no-reverse problem:
http://www.sonnax.com/publications/transmission/titles/diagnosing-the-elusive-no-reverse-with-the-4l...

Very good read I agree. This is one reason I feel better about a remanufactured automatic transmission vs. a local rebuild.

[BenK]

Byran, GREAT article link

[john_bet]

I drove a '97 Chevy express van,350 with a 7800gvw, for 11 years at my last job towing nothing and it ate 2 of those trannys in less than 100k. JME.

[BenK]

PS...Don't remember if yours is 4x4 or not, but I always put my Sub into low/low
doing stuff like this just for this kind of potential failure

The engine & ATF is spinning and flow at higher levels in compound low

[BenK]

Major bummer Don...

Know you well enough and see that Mr MacGyver met his match... :B

Seriously, this is one of the reasons I do not like automatics and not
what so many think...high way or pavement anything...it is slow crawling
but not just that...

UN-locked and hydraulic slippage. Not surprised at the dash ATF gauge
temp and note that it was way hotter at the source of heat generation
(inside the TC at the tips of the vanes where the fluid shears)

Add that the slow speed has a small fraction of the air flow married
with huge amounts of heat needing rejection.

At your very good maintenance schedule, betcha the reverse clutch
slipped enough to chew off a bit. Automatic clutches do not have the
meat that manuals have. So it doesn't take much eaten to slip even
more to cascade into failure like this...seemingly in an instant

Don't know modern auto's slippage, but it used to be in the 15% or more
range.

Toss in a healthy big block, slow (no air flow) and unlocked did it in

Don't know much about after market rebuilds and ask that you post back
on how it goes. Want to learn from your scouting the path for me... :B

My 4L80E is at +166,000 miles of extremely hard/harsh use and know
it has been fantastic for me...knock on wood...

[Fordlover]

campigloo wrote:
Well bummer. Just to try to ease some of the pain, look where you were when it happened. I've seen worse. My 4L80E went out @ 125,000. The mechanics I talked to all said that is about the life expectancy of those trannys. I put a Ford rebuilt back in mine, but added the Banks Billet torque converter. It made a noticeable difference in shifting and temp. Pricey, but I found it worth the money.

Impressive. Your GM tranny went south, so you put a rebuilt Ford unit back in. Which Ford tranny bolts up to a GM motor?

[carringb]

Good read on the no-reverse problem:
http://www.sonnax.com/publications/transmission/titles/diagnosing-the-elusive-no-reverse-with-the-4l...

[campigloo]

Well bummer. Just to try to ease some of the pain, look where you were when it happened. I've seen worse. My 4L80E went out @ 125,000. The mechanics I talked to all said that is about the life expectancy of those trannys. I put a Ford rebuilt back in mine, but added the Banks Billet torque converter. It made a noticeable difference in shifting and temp. Pricey, but I found it worth the money.

[Lantley]

Wow Don I feel your pain! I had the same experience with my X at 109K?. No reverse. $2200.00 later I was on the road.
144K on a vehicle that tows hard regularly probably isn't bad.
Of course that's easy for me to say.