Modified flatbed for C&C

[AH_AK]

Has anyone here modded out a 13 ft flatbed to allow a TC to sit all the way up against the cab?

One would need to relocate the fuel fill line and reduce the width of the last 5 ft of the 13 ft bed to allow clearance for the rear jacks and the dump nozzle. Of course the frame and suspension set the minimum width, but it looks very doable. The added benefit for me would be that I would also gain a 2.5 ft landing outside my Bigfoot 10.5e and open up a host of new stair configurations. Of course, the lockable storage box opportunities are fantastic too.

C&C 4500+ are relatively common and comparatively cheap in my area. Just curious what problems I may encounter with such an undertaking.

[Grit_dog]

AH_AK wrote:

Grit dog wrote:
Ya, no inherent issues slicing and dicing a flatbed for your needs.
Also not a huge deal to have a cog a little aft of the rear axle on such a big truck….except they already ride horribly and adding weight to the FA helps that.
A 4500-5500 never rides good unless there’s a snowplow hanging off the front!

I thought you already had the truck. I’d think it much easier and more advantages than drawbacks to having a folding “deck” on the back of the flatbed.
You’d still have to get a camper all the way onto the bed. Or at least no vertical overhang in the rear. But a folding deck has some advantages. Can build it relatively lightweight. Can remove it easily for other truck duties. It’s up and out of the way while traveling and most importantly not getting covered with mud driving around the great state of AK. Also you could build it fairly long for a huge deck if you wanted. Although length = weight.
Downside is having to drop it down to access the camper every time unless you can get maybe 2’ of flatbed overhang past the camper.

Thanks for the info on the 4500/5500 ride. I kind of suspected the ride quality would be the primary tradeoff in stepping up to the larger trucks. The fold out landing would definitely be sweet, but would require a bit more thought and design work. Definitely doable if you have the extra GVWR to play with. I have a modified 1T SRW right now, so I have to weigh any truck swap with the cost differential and hassle. I am 1000 lb over my GVWR so I am hesitant to add more weight. I have been on the prowl for a DRW 1T or f-450, but the market right now is nuts. Zero deals to be had. C&C’s with flatbeds are all over the place and reasonably priced.

As long as you own a kidney belt you’ll be fine!
Seriously though, they are a better value for gvw than a 1 ton.
Now I’ll tell you the real reason there are a ton of used ones for sale cheap in AK.
They’re ex Slope trucks. All of ‘em. Being from AK you should know this.
The smaller trucks are more marketable and cheaper to ship down to the L48 so more of them get a boat ride vs the med duty trucks.
And anything used on the slope will have 10,000s of hours on it. Maybe on its 2nd or 3rd engine (or 6th or 9th if it’s an old 6.0 Flowerjoke). Upside is they’re cheap and generally relatively well maintained if they came from a bigger outfit. And N slope rigs are far better to buy than oil sands rigs out of Alberta.
Another concern is tires, snow traction and tire cost. You’ll have 19.5s which are expensive and can’t be aired down to bust those drifts over Hatcher’s….imo the biggest negative about a med duty. That said you can get good mud grips and/or sipe them and have decent snow tires.
And like I said previously if you get some of that camper weight forward of the rear axle it will improve the ride noticeably.

[AH_AK]

3 tons wrote:
I’m curious due to flat bed width how one would be able to unload the camper, and then wondering is there no factory installed rear hitch?? How much would the added height difference be of a 4500 (without a bed) over a 3500 4x4, and the acronym ‘CA’ - I assume this must mean ‘cab to rear axle center’ ?

3 tons

Depends on the flatbed, but to my knowledge most are as wide as the wheels. The rear track on cab and chassis is the same as DRW 1T pickups, so you need the swing out brackets for the front jacks, just as you would with the 1T dually. Height is another issue. 4500/5500 flatbeds sit a few inches higher than the beds of 1T pickup. I want to say the frames are roughly the same height, but the pickup beds have less of an offset from frame top to bed than the flatbeds. I honestly don’t know how much higher. Depends on the flatbed I think. Adding blocks under the jacks to get the extra height (if jacks are near maxed) is not a big deal. 4500/5500 are made to carry the payloads of these larger campers, but as another commenter pointed out, the ride may be less than stellar compared to the relatively soft 1T pickups.

[AH_AK]

Grit dog wrote:
Ya, no inherent issues slicing and dicing a flatbed for your needs.
Also not a huge deal to have a cog a little aft of the rear axle on such a big truck….except they already ride horribly and adding weight to the FA helps that.
A 4500-5500 never rides good unless there’s a snowplow hanging off the front!

I thought you already had the truck. I’d think it much easier and more advantages than drawbacks to having a folding “deck” on the back of the flatbed.
You’d still have to get a camper all the way onto the bed. Or at least no vertical overhang in the rear. But a folding deck has some advantages. Can build it relatively lightweight. Can remove it easily for other truck duties. It’s up and out of the way while traveling and most importantly not getting covered with mud driving around the great state of AK. Also you could build it fairly long for a huge deck if you wanted. Although length = weight.
Downside is having to drop it down to access the camper every time unless you can get maybe 2’ of flatbed overhang past the camper.

Thanks for the info on the 4500/5500 ride. I kind of suspected the ride quality would be the primary tradeoff in stepping up to the larger trucks. The fold out landing would definitely be sweet, but would require a bit more thought and design work. Definitely doable if you have the extra GVWR to play with. I have a modified 1T SRW right now, so I have to weigh any truck swap with the cost differential and hassle. I am 1000 lb over my GVWR so I am hesitant to add more weight. I have been on the prowl for a DRW 1T or f-450, but the market right now is nuts. Zero deals to be had. C&C’s with flatbeds are all over the place and reasonably priced.

[3_tons]

I’m curious due to flat bed width how one would be able to unload the camper, and then wondering is there no factory installed rear hitch?? How much would the added height difference be of a 4500 (without a bed) over a 3500 4x4, and the acronym ‘CA’ - I assume this must mean ‘cab to rear axle center’ ?

3 tons

[Grit_dog]

Ya, no inherent issues slicing and dicing a flatbed for your needs.
Also not a huge deal to have a cog a little aft of the rear axle on such a big truck….except they already ride horribly and adding weight to the FA helps that.
A 4500-5500 never rides good unless there’s a snowplow hanging off the front!

I thought you already had the truck. I’d think it much easier and more advantages than drawbacks to having a folding “deck” on the back of the flatbed.
You’d still have to get a camper all the way onto the bed. Or at least no vertical overhang in the rear. But a folding deck has some advantages. Can build it relatively lightweight. Can remove it easily for other truck duties. It’s up and out of the way while traveling and most importantly not getting covered with mud driving around the great state of AK. Also you could build it fairly long for a huge deck if you wanted. Although length = weight.
Downside is having to drop it down to access the camper every time unless you can get maybe 2’ of flatbed overhang past the camper.

[AH_AK]

mkirsch wrote:

AH_AK wrote:
Has anyone here modded out a 13 ft flatbed to allow a TC to sit all the way up against the cab?

One would need to relocate the fuel fill line and reduce the width of the last 5 ft of the 13 ft bed to allow clearance for the rear jacks and the dump nozzle. Of course the frame and suspension set the minimum width, but it looks very doable. The added benefit for me would be that I would also gain a 2.5 ft landing outside my Bigfoot 10.5e and open up a host of new stair configurations. Of course, the lockable storage box opportunities are fantastic too.

C&C 4500+ are relatively common and comparatively cheap in my area. Just curious what problems I may encounter with such an undertaking.

To answer your question, no.

This is kind of like the question about reinforcing the truck's frame from a couple weeks ago. By and large the folks who own truck campers want simple and convenient. We like to buy the truck ready to go. If we have to add anything we like things that bolt on. Cutting the truck apart to make the camper fit is just not something that is commonly, or ever, done.

IF you feel that you have the skills to pay the bills, by all means, knock yourself out.

I think the TC community does tend to want to be plug-and-play. Not everyone though. There are some people here that have heavily modified their campers/trucks. I suppose that one of the reasons C&C trucks are so much cheaper is that they require mods for a lot of "normal" truck applications and most people don't want to deal with it.

Cutting/welding to a modern truck frame is definitely a bad idea due to the grades of steel that they use. That work is best left to the pros. I am talking about moding out the flat beds, which, to my knowledge, are mostly made from mild steel structural elements that shouldn't require pre- or post-weld heat treatment. Fabrication work on these materials is considerably easier. If it is mild steel and the mod is lightly structural, most competent amateur welders can do the work. This is one of the reasons that I wouldn't build a flatbed from scratch. Start with a well-engineered, well-constructed (used/cheap) platform and lightly modify it.

[AH_AK]

KD4UPL wrote:
I doubt these are very common with a frame long enough for a 13' flatbed. That length frame, if you find it, only comes with a regular cab truck. What is mistly available is a 60" or 84" CA frame alowing for a 9' or 11' flatbed respectively.
An 11'bed automatically solves yoyr rear jack problem as they will be past the end of the bed. Now you just need to deal with the drain pipe. When I was considering doing this there were a few campers that were flat on the bittom all the back but I firget whuch ones.
If you did use a regular cab truck and 13' bed yoy might actually overload the front axle by getting the camper COG too far forward.

These are very good points. I am thinking of the 84" CA frame with the aft-axle frame extensions. 12' would actually work fine. You are correct that the majority of the trucks I see are 60" CA and would be limited to 9 ft. I have seen several fleet vehicles with the longer flat beds and it seems like there is very little demand for these from the public (which is good from the gettin-it-cheap perspective).

My calculation says ~12% distributed to the front axle for my COG at 24" in front of the real axle on a 204" WB, so front axle should be fine. TBH I have only driven trucks with the COG on or just in front of the rear axle, so I don't know how the shift forward would effect the handling. All I know is weight behind the rear axle is no bueno. Perhaps not as big a deal for the 4500+ truck...hate to be wrong though.

The more I think on this, the more a bolt-on rear platform extension on a 9' bed seems advantageous. That frame would only be sized to handle it's own weight + cargo and dropped down an inch or so below the bottom of the camper, because to my knowledge, the overhang part of the camper is not meant to carry load. I wonder where the COG would end up if I added such an extension and then just placed the camper with the dump nozzle just aft of the end of the bed. It is my understanding that the CA on 60" C&C is 4" longer than a standard long bed pickup. Right now, my COG is like 1-2" in front of the rear axle, which would mean that without modifying the 9' bed to add a slot for the dump, my COG would end up behind the rear axle...then tack on my aft platform mass...mehhh. Maybe I am too focused on COG location and being slightly behind the rear axle on these big trucks would be fine.

[KD4UPL]

I doubt these are very common with a frame long enough for a 13' flatbed. That length frame, if you find it, only comes with a regular cab truck. What is mistly available is a 60" or 84" CA frame alowing for a 9' or 11' flatbed respectively.
An 11'bed automatically solves yoyr rear jack problem as they will be past the end of the bed. Now you just need to deal with the drain pipe. When I was considering doing this there were a few campers that were flat on the bittom all the back but I firget whuch ones.
If you did use a regular cab truck and 13' bed yoy might actually overload the front axle by getting the camper COG too far forward.

[mkirsch]

AH_AK wrote:
Has anyone here modded out a 13 ft flatbed to allow a TC to sit all the way up against the cab?

One would need to relocate the fuel fill line and reduce the width of the last 5 ft of the 13 ft bed to allow clearance for the rear jacks and the dump nozzle. Of course the frame and suspension set the minimum width, but it looks very doable. The added benefit for me would be that I would also gain a 2.5 ft landing outside my Bigfoot 10.5e and open up a host of new stair configurations. Of course, the lockable storage box opportunities are fantastic too.

C&C 4500+ are relatively common and comparatively cheap in my area. Just curious what problems I may encounter with such an undertaking.

To answer your question, no.

This is kind of like the question about reinforcing the truck's frame from a couple weeks ago. By and large the folks who own truck campers want simple and convenient. We like to buy the truck ready to go. If we have to add anything we like things that bolt on. Cutting the truck apart to make the camper fit is just not something that is commonly, or ever, done.

IF you feel that you have the skills to pay the bills, by all means, knock yourself out.

[mkirsch]

Reality Check wrote:
I guess I'm not really understanding the problem. Pictures? Fuel lines are easy to move. Jacks should clear regardless. Worst case, rear of the camper (anything past the 8' mark) might have a section/part that is lower (i.e. our wings hang down about 1/2" lower than the bottom of the camper). Just put the camper on a mat, or plywood, etc, to raise it up a bit.

I'm not following why the narrowing at the rear? Deck at the back would work great..we use to have a pull out deck that stored under part of the flatbed on another truck.

The big campers have a drop-down in back where they extend past a standard pickup bed.

The big campers are already tall in a pickup truck, and will be even taller on a flatbed. You have to plan routes VERY carefully to avoid low bridges without making it even taller. Get over 13'6" and you're going to have problems even on main roads and interstates. Besides a stall mat is not going to raise the camper enough to clear the rear drop-down on some of these campers.

Narrowing at the rear to clear the cleanouts and rear jacks. A flatbed is as wide as dually fenders.

[Reality_Check]

I guess I'm not really understanding the problem. Pictures? Fuel lines are easy to move. Jacks should clear regardless. Worst case, rear of the camper (anything past the 8' mark) might have a section/part that is lower (i.e. our wings hang down about 1/2" lower than the bottom of the camper). Just put the camper on a mat, or plywood, etc, to raise it up a bit.

I'm not following why the narrowing at the rear? Deck at the back would work great..we use to have a pull out deck that stored under part of the flatbed on another truck.

[Grit_dog]

If you’re keeping the full length of the bed, be better and much easier to just get a TC that is bed level with nothing hanging down.
Then you get a bigger back deck and don’t have to modify anything.

Correction, you’d still need extended or dually brackets for the rear jacks just like the front.

[AH_AK]

I thought about this option, but I would still need to either relocate the dump nozzle, or cut out a hole for it in the bed and then be okay with a very tall lift (these flatbeds sit high already). I could be wrong, but I think the jack extenders would need to be custom built. Personally, I am not super confident that the rear jack mounts (specifically the backing wood) could safely carry the moment that would be created by offsetting the jacks. This is definitely a viable option though.

What got me thinking was that I parked next to a flatbed and decided to stick my head under there and see what the layout of the structural members was. It was surprisingly simple and sparse. Assuming the beams are mild steel, the mod would be fairly straightforward for a fab shop or fab hobbyist. The only downside is that the flatbed is not going to be useful for much else after the mod.

[Ron_835]

Could you extend the rear jacks much like the front to clear the flatbed?