Near miss

[FreeLanceing]

Coming home from my annual SD bird hunting trip, I always stop in Chesterton In for the last chance at White Castle. Growing up in Chicago its like going to Maine and not picking up a lobster if I don't stop. I was at the light waiting for my arrow to go left. I gave the old dog a burger and since he's blind I had to help him locate it. The light had turned and the good citizens behind me were honking. Just as I hit the gas I noticed movement to my left and hit the binders. A fully loaded 18 wheeler blew the light and slid through the intersection 3 ft off my front bumper. Had I gone on green he would have T-Boned me for sure. Being a Harley rider I have learned to drive defensivly. This was a very close call that could have been a real disaster. Be safe out there some folks are in a big hurry.

[Desertboy]

It makes a huge difference what your driving also. I live in Oklahoma and one week ago today I road a Amtrak down through south Texas and out to Los Angeles where I got a rental car and drove to Bakersfield where My Freightliner was waiting. I can assure you that Bakersfield is the red light running capital of the world and most of the cars were beat up badly? (even new ones) I was nervous as a cat driving in Los A/ and Bakersfield. But once I got in the Big Rig people do give you more room. I had never driven a Semi cross country before and it nerve wracking watching people in little fiber glass cars cutting in front of Big trucks. Most truck drivers are 10 times better drivers than 4 wheel drivers, you have to be. I kept in the slow lane and held it on 60 mph most of the way to Oklahoma. I noticed a alarming number of red light runners, and aggressive drivers mainly in California and in Oklahoma City. But Bakersfield is the worst place Ive seen.

[wnjj]

Bedlam wrote:
The foreword of this link describes what is happening:

The speed at which drivers operate their vehicles directly affects two performance measures of the highway system—mobility and safety. Higher speeds provide for lower travel times, a measure of good mobility. However, the relationship of speed to safety is not as clear cut. It is difficult to separate speed from other characteristics including the type of highway facility. Still, it is generally agreed that the risk of injuries and fatalities increases with speed. Designers of highways use a designated design speed to establish design features; operators set speed limits deemed safe for the particular type of road; but drivers select their speed based on their individual perception of safety. Quite frequently, these speed measures are not compatible and their values relative to each other can vary. This guide discusses the various speed concepts to include designated design speed, operating speed, speed limit, and a new concept of inferred design speed. It explains how they are determined and how they relate to each other.

You cannot pick and choose selected elements out of this document to support an opinion. You either need to accept all the factors involved in traveling safely or not accept a partial reference to justify speeding.

Speaking of taking only part, you forgot the final sentence of the foreword:

The purpose of this publication is to help engineers, planners, and elected officials to better understand design speed and its implications in achieving desired operating speeds and setting rational speed limits.

My point was that the 85th percentile is what most agencies refer to when determining what is rational and that's why I pointed at chapter 5. Clearly increased speeds can cause an increase of injury and death so by definition the only safe speed is zero, but that's not rational is it?

I never claimed to speed or justify speeding for others. I was only saying that some roads where I live have irrationally low limits.

[run100]

rickeoni wrote:
My hope is that somewhere one person can realize that speeding, cell phone use, texting etc, is not as important as the task of dilligent driving and being fully aware of your surroundings.

Well said. And while a person is talking on a cell phone, they generally are not fully aware of their surroundings . . . at least, based on observations during my daily commutes.

[Bedlam]

The foreword of this link describes what is happening:

The speed at which drivers operate their vehicles directly affects two performance measures of the highway system—mobility and safety. Higher speeds provide for lower travel times, a measure of good mobility. However, the relationship of speed to safety is not as clear cut. It is difficult to separate speed from other characteristics including the type of highway facility. Still, it is generally agreed that the risk of injuries and fatalities increases with speed. Designers of highways use a designated design speed to establish design features; operators set speed limits deemed safe for the particular type of road; but drivers select their speed based on their individual perception of safety. Quite frequently, these speed measures are not compatible and their values relative to each other can vary. This guide discusses the various speed concepts to include designated design speed, operating speed, speed limit, and a new concept of inferred design speed. It explains how they are determined and how they relate to each other.

You cannot pick and choose selected elements out of this document to support an opinion. You either need to accept all the factors involved in traveling safely or not accept a partial reference to justify speeding.

[wnjj]

FHWA talks about the 85th percentile in chapter 5 here. It says it is heavily used to set speed limits since most drivers are considered "reasonable."

Again, when most of the people are speeding, the limit is the problem.

[rickeoni]

In no way was I trying to change the discussion and I enjoy a lively debate and was in way taking offense. I love to hear other peoples opinions as this is what makes life interesting. If we were all the same life would be pretty boring. My hope is that somewhere one person can realize that speeding, cell phone use, texting etc, is not as important as the task of dilligent driving and being fully aware of your surroundings. I have several good friends in law enforcement up here in the great white north, and as with all professions there are good and not so good. I really enjoy this forum and this discussion was a nice change from the drudgery of camper shopping.

[bka0721]

rickeoni wrote:

bka0721 wrote:

SRT wrote:

69 Avion wrote:

rickeoni wrote:
Snip.

Snip.

snip.

snip

All I stated was that the 90th percentile of drivers are going the same speed regardless of what the posted limit is, in this situation the slow drivers are more dangerous than the fast drivers who are also dangerous. All I was saying is that artificially low speed limits do not make the road safer. I am not a speeder, never will be. I got over myself when I was 20 and grew up. So Mr. LEO read my post carefully and ask me how I know bad drivers can affect your life, then tell me again to get over myself.

Hi Rick! Welcome to the forum.

While I was not directing to you directly, but directing to the general readers that frequent these forums. You were one of three posters, so I would also encourage you to review my own post, as well as one I earlier posted. This is a great forum to enjoy and participate in. On this TC Forum, my position, expressed here, is certainly a minority opinion and to those that have a different opinion, than mine, it was them I was addressing.

I have no idea where you are gathering your expressed opinion of the 90th percentile of driving speed and no interest in asking you about your interest in how bad driving impacted you anymore than you would be interested in how my life/career was impacted by bad drivers. If it is your own personal opinion, that is fine and I respect your observation and I have no way of knowing in your area of observation that it would not be accurate. Nationwide actual highway and roadway “reasonable speed” (as it is called) is dictated by the type, topography and conditions of the roadway. While I don’t disagree with your position that some drive faster than the posted speed limit, I would posit that if the posted speed is reasonable for the above casual factors, you will see less disregard of the posted speed limit. Such as was found when interstate highways are posted at 55 MPH to 75/80 MPH. For this reason I am puzzled at where your 90th Percentile is gathered from.

As for casual factors (getting back to the OPs theme) for accidents resulting in injuries, they are rated by the US Department of Transportation as; Speeding, Following too Closely (often a result of speeding), Distracted Driving, Careless Driving, DUI, Reckless Driving. The actual casual factor of driving too slow/impeding traffic, does not even make the top 20 of Casual Factors. I would go further to say, driving slower than the posted speed limit should relate to the type of roadway. As often is stated in many speeding cases, ending in court, the Posted Speed Limit is not the speed to drive, but the recommended speed not to be exceeded. Two of the most frequent reasons I would stop people, in my area of enforcement, was; Following too Closely and Impeding Traffic, one I would scratch a citation out easily and the other one was often taken care of by the time it took for the party to enjoy my company.

Again, Rick, I apologize that you might have taken offense, but it was not meant as such, just that I look at traffic and traffic flow differently than some others might. In getting over yourself, I believe you, but it was shared in the aspect of those that do speed, and have written here often, feel that those that don’t drive as they do, should exit the roadway. While you might refer to me as, Mr. LEO, I would like to think we encourage all those with expertise to share here, whether they possess knowledge in mechanics, welding, Nuclear Engineering or just the school of hard knocks.

It is remarkable that the OP was saved from a terrible outcome and I suspect much was due to his driving habits and driving experiences.

b

[3_tons]

I had the exact same thing happen to me!...Though my light had turned green, I just happened a verifying glance to the left before attempting to cross the Hwy and it was a darn good thing, an 18 wheeler blew through his red light and through the intersection at about 45 mph (Hwy speed limit was 50 mph). Had I casually proceeded, I'd now be about a decade into the looong dirt nap...

3 tons

[clikrf8]

When driving in Utah on 191 from Flaming Gorge NRA to Dinosaur NM, we encountered a lot of trucks with deer or cow guards, very robust brush guards on the front of the truck. No way would you survive a head on with that. I realize that commerce has a tight schedule but no one's life is worth some stockholder's profit. We saw them crossing lines, cutting corners, speeding. And, most of the west is open range, so you always need to watch for cattle. I guess the companies feel that they can just buy the cows they kill.

Although we drive close to the speed limit or slower, we don't know the roads so err on the side of caution. We always pull over when we can if it is safe to do so.

Happy trails!

[covered_wagon]

Thank you bka0721 for the post above.

I want to Thank the tail gator that bought us a new car recently. But it's not cool that you caused my wifes neck and back pain for 2 mos. She's better now, but this being in a hurry and thinking tailgating is going to save you time...... Not even anywhere near a nanosecond and you can't even take a glance at the fall colors driving like that.

Sorry about getting off topic :E

[rickeoni]

bka0721 wrote:

SRT wrote:

69 Avion wrote:

rickeoni wrote:
Enforcing low speed limits is not the answer, 90% of traffic finds the correct speed for the road and the current conditions. Slow drivers are a bigger hazard than speeders. We need to enforce all around good driving habits and have society as a whold realize that driving is a privilege not a right. Bigger penalties for repeat offenders, bigger penalties for certain offences as a first punishaffectamily members are getting killed everyday with little or no consequence to the offender. A death of a family member is a life altering event, losing your licence for a year is an inconvenience.

Very well put.

Yup! Each year it seems that there are more poor drivers on the road. Also there needs to be more personal responsibility instead of blaming others for their mistakes.

I couldn't disagree more.



Driving the roads and highways does not give you the right to operate your vehicle without due regards of the rights of others, just to meet your own needs. There are hazards everywhere and one of the first rules a race car driver learns is; "the overtaking driver must yield to the slower vehicle and pass when it is safe to do so." This is true to the roads and highways.

What if you followed this logic and you encountered a Farm Vehicle, a bicyclist or a young child walking along the side of the road with his dog trailing behind him. A driver MUST be aware of all situations that they may/might encounter, regardless to the lanes, widths and grades of the roadway and adjust their driving accordingly.

NO. Just because you can and do drive faster, than others you might encounter, does not allow you the privilege to have them pull to the side of the road and allow others. Essentially get out of my way, cause I'm coming through, because you choose to disregard the maximum and minimum posted speeds. While these hazards are present, for the slower driver or pedestrians/animals encountered on the road, they too need to operate their own vehicles or actions with caution for those that are speeding and driving, well, in a reckless manner; essentially the same attitude; "well they can just suck on my bumper." Both received my attention, equally and often.

The best strategy? Drive as if others have the right to the road you are operating your motor vehicle on, because legally they do, so get over yourself.

b

All I stated was that the 90th percentile of drivers are going the same speed regardless of what the posted limit is, in this situation the slow drivers are more dangerous than the fast drivers who are also dangerous. All I was saying is that artificially low speed limits do not make the road safer. I am not a speeder, never will be. I got over myself when I was 20 and grew up. So Mr. LEO read my post carefully and ask me how I know bad drivers can affect your life, then tell me again to get over myself.

[Wes_Tausend]

...

Glad you are ok. Good catch on the biker defensive mantra. It made you a better driver all around and saved your life.

A bit off the driving subject:
Another incident that took place "on the way home from hunting", happened in the Bismarck, ND, airport. A Utah gentleman accidentally discharged his shotgun while checking baggage in the local airport. Thankfully no-one was hurt, but probably $2000 in property damage occured which he agreed to pay.

I'd like to think that could never happen to me, with my checking and re-checking to assure my firearms are unloaded. But we all know what they say about supposedly unloaded guns.

Wes
...

[bka0721]

SRT wrote:

69 Avion wrote:

rickeoni wrote:
Enforcing low speed limits is not the answer, 90% of traffic finds the correct speed for the road and the current conditions. Slow drivers are a bigger hazard than speeders. We need to enforce all around good driving habits and have society as a whold realize that driving is a privilege not a right. Bigger penalties for repeat offenders, bigger penalties for certain offences as a first punishment. Family members are getting killed everyday with little or no consequence to the offender. A death of a family member is a life altering event, losing your licence for a year is an inconvenience.

Very well put.

Yup! Each year it seems that there are more poor drivers on the road. Also there needs to be more personal responsibility instead of blaming others for their mistakes.

I couldn't disagree more.



Driving the roads and highways does not give you the right to operate your vehicle without due regards of the rights of others, just to meet your own needs. There are hazards everywhere and one of the first rules a race car driver learns is; "the overtaking driver must yield to the slower vehicle and pass when it is safe to do so." This is true to the roads and highways.

What if you followed this logic and you encountered a Farm Vehicle, a bicyclist or a young child walking along the side of the road with his dog trailing behind him. A driver MUST be aware of all situations that they may/might encounter, regardless to the lanes, widths and grades of the roadway and adjust their driving accordingly.

NO. Just because you can and do drive faster, than others you might encounter, does not allow you the privilege to have them pull to the side of the road and allow others. Essentially get out of my way, cause I'm coming through, because you choose to disregard the maximum and minimum posted speeds. While these hazards are present, for the slower driver or pedestrians/animals encountered on the road, they too need to operate their own vehicles or actions with caution for those that are speeding and driving, well, in a reckless manner; essentially the same attitude; "well they can just suck on my bumper." Both received my attention, equally and often.

The best strategy? Drive as if others have the right to the road you are operating your motor vehicle on, because legally they do, so get over yourself.

b

[Bedlam]

Sir Buffalo wrote:
Did you ever notice all the unfortunate accidents also involve the same people who have suspened or no licenses at all.

I have felt that drivers without licenses should have their vehicles impounded and sold. Even if you lend your vehicle to an unlicensed driver, you would risk losing it.