Need Guidance PLEASE!

spoon059 wrote:

otrfun wrote:
Look at your driver's side door jam "sticker" which has the VIN, RAWR, FAWR, and the GVWR annotated on it. This is your truck's legal GVWR--regardless what the literature or your dealer says.

Nope. Your legal GVWR is either your paid registration or the combined tire weight rating... whichever is lower. Those warranty numbers on the sticker don't have anything to do with legality.

Spoon059, you gotta help me out here. You claim: "Your legal GVWR is either your paid registration or the combined tire weight rating . . . whichever is lower".

Without getting into every conceivable situation where the manufacturer's GVWR may or may not carry any legal status, I'm hoping you can answer a few general questions to help focus and clarify your claim in a way that may prove useful to me and others in realworld applications:

1. What is the source of the GVWR data used for this "paid" registration you speak of? If the manufacturer's GVWR is not used for legal purposes (as a baseline) for licensing and registration purposes, then what source data do they use? If it's the owner, please see question #2.

2. If you happen to live in a state where the owner can "claim" their GVWR, can this "claimed", state-issued GVWR be used for DOT CDL purposes? Can this same "claimed", state-issued GVWR be used in a state or federal court to argue that you were or were not overloaded?

3. What source document do all 50 states, or, for that matter, the DOT, use to determine a vehicles's "legal" GVWR? If it's the "paid" registration, please see question #1 again. If it's the tires, please see question #4.

4. If, as you say, the manufacturer's GVWR carries no legal weight, then one could easily assume the manufacturer's tire recommendations also carry no legal weight. Again, quoting you: "Your legal GVWR is either your paid registration or the combined tire weight rating . . . whichever is lower".. Are you basically saying in some situations you can raise and lower your "legal" GVWR for licensing and registration purposes, "on-the-fly", by simply changing your tires . . . with no regard to the manufacturer's tire recommendations?

I believe the answers to most of these questions are obvious. However, I'm trying to give your claim the benefit of the doubt.

Thanks!

I don't think any of these weight ratings are worth a tinkers dam legally unless you are running commercial. That's when the ambulance chasers come out.

But remember, a 2500 diesel (maybe gasser too, idk if GM uses the same axle for both) is the same truck as a 3500 dually minus the extra springs, hips and 2 tires.
Translation: aside from the inherent stability of a dually, mechanically, the OE springs and whatever wheels and tires are on it are the ONLY physical differences.
Both of which are easily and economically up grade able.

Unless you're stuck on stickers still.

Note I'm still not condoning a first timer to hook a 9ton fiver and floor it up the mountain pass. Driver capability/comfort plays at least as big a part in the equation as vehicle capability.

FWIW I have a 2015 Silverado 2500HD except I have the 6.0L Gas.

My yellow sticker gives me a maximum payload of 2853lbs. My trailer has a tongue weight of 975lbs so minus that from 2853=1878. So I have 1878lbs left for passengers and "stuff". The max GVW of my truck is 9500lbs, the max GCWR (truck and trailer combined) is 20,500lbs. Max trailer weight listed at 13,500lbs, my max trailer weight is 9500lbs. I'm not a FW expert by any means but it would seem that a pin weight of anything over 2500lbs would be close if you put passengers and stuff on top of that.

Your Duramax figures may be slightly lower due to the weight of the diesel.

spoon059 wrote:

otrfun wrote:
Look at your driver's side door jam "sticker" which has the VIN, RAWR, FAWR, and the GVWR annotated on it. This is your truck's legal GVWR--regardless what the literature or your dealer says.

Nope. Your legal GVWR is either your paid registration or the combined tire weight rating... whichever is lower. Those warranty numbers on the sticker don't have anything to do with legality.

X2, and without a doubt the stock tires on the 2500HD will be loaded beyond their rating. I wouldn't worry about all the literature confusion, what GM says doesn't matter at this point. Depending on actual weights, switching to tires and wheels for a SRW 3500 might just squeak by, but even more is probably required. Either dually or 19.5 inch tires/wheels. Those are realistically the MINIMUM choices.

No problem David I have been there and done that...much worst.

My first trailer (7700 empty/9900 GVWR) I bought I ignored the sales person advice to get a HD and had my Explorer Ltd (V8) outfitted with the Equalizer hitch and trailer brake controller because it towed my 8k boat (exceeded rating too) all over the place. We walked into the shop the salesperson and I and watched the hitch installer finishing up things and looked up and said "He's towing the trailer with this!?!?!?!?". The salesperson told him I was just taking it 40 min home so he finished and hitched it up. The nose was up high on the Explorer and the rear was sagging like a bad dog (exceeded GVWR/GCVWR and payload). I drove it home approx. 40 miles both highway and city streets during Midwest weather. Even had to use 4wd to back it into my driveway. Immediately started looking for something HD and bought a Excursion Ltd. Took it on our first trip across the country to Key West through mountains and the worst winter storms I have ever experienced. You never know when and how your towing combination will be tested and having the most precious cargo on board raises the stakes.

I knew so little that each RV stop I got online here and asked questions here just like you. This is the best stop for the most experienced guys about towing/tow vehicle hands down. You just have to be prepared when you enter the ring because there are little to no filters here coupled with brand loyalty and some passion when talking about trucks lol. It's all good though because in the end we are all debating on safety which is primary with regards to travelling.

I have towed with 1/2 ton SUV and trucks, 3/4, 1 tons both single and DRW. In my mind there is nothing better than a 1 ton dually for heavy loads unless you are talking F450/550 or MDT's. Having said that I used my buddies F350 SRW plenty but my most stable/enjoyable experiences came behind a 1 ton dually long bed.

Having said that I had a stint with a local busy RV transporter and requested a F350 dually and they handed me keys to a new F250 long bed saying "Kid this will pull anything on our lot, we are out of duallies". Well I made it work but I was in a lighter XLT, travelled light because they were day trips and the trailers were empty (new from factory) so its not a fair apple to apple comparison. I think I calculated my payload to 3200 but don't recall now. I did tow everything on their lot (19-40") but refused the triple axle toy haulers because they not only exceeded the ratings they drank up my profits because of their weight because I paid the fuel bill. The F250 did what I asked of it in all conditions but the rear did sag with the bigger ones that is probably why many use air bags. As one pointed out same brakes, engine and trans as the 1 ton (Ford at least) just the tires/springs aren't really rated for that load (not incl camper package/plow prep springs). Never had a blow out ever but I will admit I worried how the single rear wheel handles with a blow out with that tongue weight on the rear with one tire on one side and rim on the other (vs DRW) but some may argue how does any truck handle with a blow out in the front?

I would further suggest you find out what your numbers are. Are you sure your payload is 2400? What is your trailer weight or more importantly the trailer pin weight?

I eventually went over CAT scale which many recommend and was pleasantly surprised. I guesstimated 8k each for truck and trailer but combo weighed 17,300 loaded with family (minus me). At least 1500 over what I thought mostly in trailer believe me weigh adds up quick.

Weight cops are out in full force I see.....and one ambulance chaser to boot!

OP, you got about a 9 ton 5ver to tow. That's a lot for a srw truck, imo and I do some pretty silly stuff with trucks from time to time, lol.
That said, you've got a rear axle good for 10klbs, same frame/ brakes as a dually and all the power in the world. You'll need suspension help for the pin weight and I'd have some tires that were good for 4klbs or close to it and let er rip.
Disclaimer: "You" may not be comfortable with it though. Simply by way of asking the question alludes that you have little/no experince towing something this heavy.

JIMNLIN wrote:

The Sticker that you'd think would be on the door jam is not informative. Only shows tire pressures. There is one in the glove box that shows slide in camper weight.

There is not a sticker, medallion or any other marking on the truck that shows GVWR, GCVWR, GAWR.

Many times if a truck is a rebuilder tags get removed for various reasons and not put back on the truck.
The truck is required by fed regs (FMVSS) to have a certification placard on the drivers side door opening.
The only weights required to be on the cert placard are the trucks GVWR/FAWR/RAWR. There are no trucks with a GCWR number other than the generic number in the owners manual.
See your GM truck dealer.

Your 15000 lb trailer will weigh in the 16500 range when loaded = approx 3200-3500 lbs of hitch weight. Now add a 200 lb hitch = 3700 lbs+ another 100 for "stuff" in the bed = approx 3800 lbs as a minimum.
A new 3/4 ton truck (any brand) doesn't have enough tire or a wheel or rear spring pack to carry much over 3200-3300 lbs in the bed.
Now your looking at upgrading tires and wheels to the 3800 -4000 lb range and adding more rear suspension help ie; air bags/Supersprings/Timbrens/3500 SRW rear spring pack/etc.

I believe you are a bit low on what this trailer will weigh in at loaded, depending on use it could weigh a lot more. We have close to 3K of "stuff", water and propane in our 16K GVWR trailer. Chris

The Sticker that you'd think would be on the door jam is not informative. Only shows tire pressures. There is one in the glove box that shows slide in camper weight.

There is not a sticker, medallion or any other marking on the truck that shows GVWR, GCVWR, GAWR.

Many times if a truck is a rebuilder tags get removed for various reasons and not put back on the truck.
The truck is required by fed regs (FMVSS) to have a certification placard on the drivers side door opening.
The only weights required to be on the cert placard are the trucks GVWR/FAWR/RAWR. There are no trucks with a GCWR number other than the generic number in the owners manual.
See your GM truck dealer.

Your 15000 lb trailer will weigh in the 16500 range when loaded = approx 3200-3500 lbs of hitch weight. Now add a 200 lb hitch = 3700 lbs+ another 100 for "stuff" in the bed = approx 3800 lbs as a minimum.
A new 3/4 ton truck (any brand) doesn't have enough tire or a wheel or rear spring pack to carry much over 3200-3300 lbs in the bed.
Now your looking at upgrading tires and wheels to the 3800 -4000 lb range and adding more rear suspension help ie; air bags/Supersprings/Timbrens/3500 SRW rear spring pack/etc.

Guidance - Get a truck more capable of handling the load.

You have a lot of input already. Recommend you use the right tool for the job.

Mike