Need help with load limits

[fivernoob]

I have a 2014 RAM 2500 CCSB CTD, 5th wheel prep, 18" E-rated tires and exhaust brake.

I currently have a popup trailer and want to upgrade to either a TT or 5th wheel.

For a TT I know I can hook up just about anything. For a fiver its gets murky. I don't want to go over 14k# loaded or about 12k# empty. I know its within the truck capacity, its that dang pin weight that seems to ruin things every time.

My question is: What is the highest pin weight that can go in my truck ? Do I have to take into account passengers ?

I have been lurking around several sites and dealers, some say I can pull a 14k# fiver some say I can't.

Getting confused about the whole issue, so any help is very welcomed !

[Me_Again]

What I am saying it that the 2500 and 3500 are not identical except for rear spring leaf count like they we in the past. You are saying they are just as capable, and I do not think RAM engineers will agree with you. I the past the 1500's got the new body and the following year the 2500/3500 got it's changes. This time the 3500's got changed in 2013 and the 2500's got changed in 2014 with differences on the rear half of the frame.

[IdaD]

Me Again wrote:

IdaD wrote:
and the front pucks mount the same as they do on the 3500.

If the front pucks mounted the same, then the bed would have to be lifted. It has been posted that the 2500 bed does NOT have to be lifted.

Chris

Go look at the actual parts and stop relying on hearsay. On the 3500 the two side plates are welded on the frame rail, on the 2500 the plates come with the mounting kit and are bolted on the frame rail. The puck mounts to the plates in the same manner on both on top of the frame rail.

You're missing the larger point that was made because you're too busy nitpicking at immaterial issues.

[Me_Again]

IdaD wrote:
and the front pucks mount the same as they do on the 3500.

If the front pucks mounted the same, then the bed would have to be lifted. It has been posted that the 2500 bed does NOT have to be lifted.

Chris

[CWSWine]

spoon059 wrote:

CWSWine wrote:
So if you register a F150 for higher rating and put tires on rated to 7500 I can tow like 1 ton?

Legally speaking, yes. If your tire rating and registration rating are high enough you can LEGALLY tow a ridiculous amount, but I promise you that it won't "tow like a 1 ton". I wouldn't recommend it either, but I am reasonably certain you are just being facetious with your statement...

That isn't exactly an apples to oranges comparison however. Structurally, the difference between current 3/4 ton and 1 ton trucks is usually nothing more than a spring pack difference in the rear, and sometimes they aren't even different (Ford F250 with "camper package"... same exact truck as a F350, but rated about 2500 lbs LESS to fit in the Class 2B designation of 10K GVWR).

On the Ram, the only difference is rear coil springs rated to 6500lbs on the 2500 and rear leaf springs rated to 7000 lbs on the 3500. The ratings on the frame, engine, brakes, rear axle, transmission, wheels, tires, cooling system, etc are all IDENTICAL between the two trucks. The 3500 is rated to have a much higher payload (sum of the front and rear axle ratings), whereas the 2500 is rated to 10K lbs (Class 2B designation). I will agree with what has already been written, the difference in suspension mounts between the 3/4 and 1 ton means that the 5th wheel hitch mounts are slightly different, but the frames are rated to the same strengths and weight ratings.

Your F-150 is not structurally the same as the F-350. While LEGALLY you can carry 13K lbs in a F-150, it isn't safe, nor smart, to do so.

You really believe that I could tow anything I want with a F150 as long is have the tires and register it at 25,999 lbs. LOL RV don’t fall under the commercial regulations but we fall under “Operating Motor Vehicle within Manufacture Specifications On Public Streets” and being in compliance of the “Federal Compliance Sticker” that is attached to your trucks door post. You better check your basic laws in your state. No, they are not going to pull you over to check but just let one these lawyers that advertise for over weight RV accident cases get a hold of you and there lots of them advertising for cases.

If you ever noticed it says on the top title you GVWR and you signed it and legal doc.

[spoon059]

CWSWine wrote:
So if you register a F150 for higher rating and put tires on rated to 7500 I can tow like 1 ton?

Legally speaking, yes. If your tire rating and registration rating are high enough you can LEGALLY tow a ridiculous amount, but I promise you that it won't "tow like a 1 ton". I wouldn't recommend it either, but I am reasonably certain you are just being facetious with your statement...

That isn't exactly an apples to oranges comparison however. Structurally, the difference between current 3/4 ton and 1 ton trucks is usually nothing more than a spring pack difference in the rear, and sometimes they aren't even different (Ford F250 with "camper package"... same exact truck as a F350, but rated about 2500 lbs LESS to fit in the Class 2B designation of 10K GVWR).

On the Ram, the only difference is rear coil springs rated to 6500lbs on the 2500 and rear leaf springs rated to 7000 lbs on the 3500. The ratings on the frame, engine, brakes, rear axle, transmission, wheels, tires, cooling system, etc are all IDENTICAL between the two trucks. The 3500 is rated to have a much higher payload (sum of the front and rear axle ratings), whereas the 2500 is rated to 10K lbs (Class 2B designation). I will agree with what has already been written, the difference in suspension mounts between the 3/4 and 1 ton means that the 5th wheel hitch mounts are slightly different, but the frames are rated to the same strengths and weight ratings.

Your F-150 is not structurally the same as the F-350. While LEGALLY you can carry 13K lbs in a F-150, it isn't safe, nor smart, to do so.

[Grit_dog]

^^ Yea that was my intention. This is the only site I frequent that a lot of folks try to analyze every last nut and bolt on a pickup and then some blow the differences out of proportion.
That in itself is as confusing or misleading as those that totally generalize, to those that come here for help or suggestions with little technical knowledge.
And I did credit the difference in rear suspension...

[IdaD]

Me Again wrote:

Grit dog wrote:
This has been discussed......about 1000x on here and usually starts an argument.
But here's the facts.
Aside from an Aisin trans, you have the heaviest duty, most capable drivetrain offered. Same as offered in a 3500drw configured the same way, with tons more payload on paper and much greater towing capacity on paper as well compard to the 2500.
You have the same chassis as the above mentioned truck, minus the extra back tires and different rear suspension design.
You have the same rear axle that is rated from 6500 to up close to 10klbs depending on what class of truck it's in.
And most importantly, you have the truck sitting in your driveway.

The short answer, is with some rear suspension help, it will pull a 14k 5ver as well and as safely as anything on the road save for a drw truck (which is nice, but not necessary for your pin weight). You will also be under the real world ratings of all the important components (axle, tires/wheels, chassis, drivetrain), but over weight on paper on almost all of those criteria due to the truck being marketed as a class 2 truck.

Few things above are not quite true. The 2500's have coil springs verses leafs on the 3500's. The factory pucks are mounted differently on the 2500 vs the 3500's, so there appears to be some frame differences. 2500's pucks bolted to the side of the rails and the 3500 pucks sit on top of the frame with plates on both sides that are welded to the frame, requiring the bed to be raise to install them after the fact.

Chris

It's the same basic chassis, there are just some minor differences at the back to accommodate the different suspensions. In particular it appears that the 3500 frame flares out very slightly less right about where the gooseneck ball sits, presumably because it needs to stay a bit narrower to accommodate the leafs mounting outside of the frame rail. Aside from that the frame itself looks the same and all the cross-members are in the same locations. The frames appear identical from the gooseneck ball forward, and the front pucks mount the same as they do on the 3500.

All of this is a long winded way of saying that the chassis is the same between the two for all practical intents and purposes, and the point GD made in his post is certainly still accurate.

[CWSWine]

spoon059 wrote:

SoCalDesertRider wrote:
If your loaded pin weight is over 3000 lbs, you'll likely need heavier duty rear tires/wheels and springs.

Why? Other than the fact that he would be over his 10K lbs GVWR because of the class 2B rating, why would he need up upgrade springs or wheels/tires?

Those same exact tires, wheels and springs are rated to have a 3300 lbs payload in the 6.4 Hemi configuration with 17" wheels. We know that upgrading from 17" wheels to 18" wheels gives an additional 500 lbs of RAWR capacity, from 6000 to 6500 lbs. Lets not forget that those 18" wheels/tires are also rated to 7000 lbs on the 3500, so the "weak link" on the 2500 would be the coil springs, rated 500 lbs lower than the leaf system.

OP, check the registration laws in your state. In Maryland I can register my truck for whatever weights I am willing to pay. To be legal, my weights cannot be more than 1) my registered weight and 2)the combined rating of my tires.

I'm fairly certain your 18" tires are rated for 3500 +/- lbs, so if you have 4 wheels your tire rating is 14K lbs. Your combined axle ratings with 18" tires is 12K lbs. If you register your vehicle for 12K lbs, you are both legal AND within your axle ratings.

That is a cheaper way of "upgrading" to a 1 ton truck.

So if you register a F150 for higher rating and put tires on rated to 7500 I can tow like 1 ton?

[spoon059]

SoCalDesertRider wrote:
If your loaded pin weight is over 3000 lbs, you'll likely need heavier duty rear tires/wheels and springs.

Why? Other than the fact that he would be over his 10K lbs GVWR because of the class 2B rating, why would he need up upgrade springs or wheels/tires?

Those same exact tires, wheels and springs are rated to have a 3300 lbs payload in the 6.4 Hemi configuration with 17" wheels. We know that upgrading from 17" wheels to 18" wheels gives an additional 500 lbs of RAWR capacity, from 6000 to 6500 lbs. Lets not forget that those 18" wheels/tires are also rated to 7000 lbs on the 3500, so the "weak link" on the 2500 would be the coil springs, rated 500 lbs lower than the leaf system.

OP, check the registration laws in your state. In Maryland I can register my truck for whatever weights I am willing to pay. To be legal, my weights cannot be more than 1) my registered weight and 2)the combined rating of my tires.

I'm fairly certain your 18" tires are rated for 3500 +/- lbs, so if you have 4 wheels your tire rating is 14K lbs. Your combined axle ratings with 18" tires is 12K lbs. If you register your vehicle for 12K lbs, you are both legal AND within your axle ratings.

That is a cheaper way of "upgrading" to a 1 ton truck.

[Me_Again]

Grit dog wrote:
This has been discussed......about 1000x on here and usually starts an argument.
But here's the facts.
Aside from an Aisin trans, you have the heaviest duty, most capable drivetrain offered. Same as offered in a 3500drw configured the same way, with tons more payload on paper and much greater towing capacity on paper as well compard to the 2500.
You have the same chassis as the above mentioned truck, minus the extra back tires and different rear suspension design.
You have the same rear axle that is rated from 6500 to up close to 10klbs depending on what class of truck it's in.
And most importantly, you have the truck sitting in your driveway.

The short answer, is with some rear suspension help, it will pull a 14k 5ver as well and as safely as anything on the road save for a drw truck (which is nice, but not necessary for your pin weight). You will also be under the real world ratings of all the important components (axle, tires/wheels, chassis, drivetrain), but over weight on paper on almost all of those criteria due to the truck being marketed as a class 2 truck.

Few things above are not quite true. The 2500's have coil springs verses leafs on the 3500's. The factory pucks are mounted differently on the 2500 vs the 3500's, so there appears to be some frame differences. 2500's pucks bolted to the side of the rails and the 3500 pucks sit on top of the frame with plates on both sides that are welded to the frame, requiring the bed to be raise to install them after the fact.

Chris

[CWSWine]

Here is a video that explains how to match your truck to your RV

Matching Your Truck to the RV

Safety is critical when towing an RV Trailer. This training video discusses the importance of understanding a Truck's ratings and how these ratings limit the size of the trailer that can be safely towed. You will be provided the tools and basic understanding needed to assist your endeavor to properly match a truck and trailer, so that you can enjoy RVing safely.

Here is a easy to use website to stubby pencil weights.

Towing Planner

[SoCalDesertRid1]

If your loaded pin weight is over 3000 lbs, you'll likely need heavier duty rear tires/wheels and springs.

[fivernoob]

Thanks all ! You've been a great help. Your input makes so much more sense. Going by the official payload of the truck all I could hookup would be an 8k# at most which is just ridiculous.

Now we'll wait until the RV shows to zero in on a final model(s).

[S_Davis]

Check your tires that will most likely be your weakest link, you will be over the door sticker or real close. I have a 2013 chevy 2500HD(GVWR 10,000lbs) and towing a 14,000lb gooseneck trailer at 13,000lb loaded I was 150lbs under my tire capacity of 6400lbs, this was too close for me so I upgraded my wheels and tires.

You will probably find you will end up doing some suspension upgrades to make the ride better, my truck felt squishy in the rear when loaded to max weight. Best bet is to get your TV weighed loaded to go and see what capacity you have left to work with.