Need tow vehicle advice

[GA2500HD]

Needing some advice on my tow vehicle. I pull a Rockwood fifth wheel that weighs 9,000 loaded. I currently have a 2003 GMC 2500hd with the 6.0 gas motor. My combination weight is within 100-200 pounds of the max. I have been wanting to upgrade to a diesel for the towing power and fuel mileage but I have never owned a diesel and hear nothing but how much they cost to maintain. I do the maintenance myself and don't mind doing the maintenance because I like for my stuff to last. I put around 10,000 miles a year on my truck with at least half of those miles towing my camper. I don't want to spend the money on buying a diesel if it's not worth it. Any help will be appreciated. Thanks in advance.

[kw_00]

transamz9 wrote:

kw/00 wrote:
We were and still have fords, 6.0, 6.4 and now 6.7. The 6.7 appears to be a good engine so far. We don't have any dodges in the fleet but I have seen other counties use them in ambulances. So far the gm 6.0 have been holding up in ambulance use. We had a problem with the alternators not keeping up with the power demand, but I see they fixed that issue now.

You just proved my point.......

I know what your saying about the 6.0, and 6.4 ford engines. But that's not the whole reason for change. Financially it just made sense for the change, given the newer 6.7 is much improved, we still suffer from emissions issues from DPF. The newer technology is just that, new.. Regen issues plague our fleet of rescues and fire trucks. Now I don't know anything about the newer dodge 6.7 past 2011. My parents own a 2011 and have had their fair share of DPF issues. Last I checked they had dodge perform another regen cycle cause the truck would not. I don't know that whole story yet to really comment further. But I still think the newer diesels are just that, new. They are really powerful and nice to pull with, but with the emissions and potential fuel problems, your wallet will get a lot lighter. If the OP pulled with the newer gas engines especially with the 6 speeds then their opinion may change. I know my 09 truck would run circles around my 02 version. Just my thoughts, anyway glad to have answerd your question and yes I do agree with u on the 6.0/6.4 issues. I hope those Dodges hold up, I do like the inline 6...

[time2roll]

If you get a diesel get a 350/3500.
Also consider a new gear ratio in the old gasser to save some money vs a newer truck.

[transamz9]

kw/00 wrote:
We were and still have fords, 6.0, 6.4 and now 6.7. The 6.7 appears to be a good engine so far. We don't have any dodges in the fleet but I have seen other counties use them in ambulances. So far the gm 6.0 have been holding up in ambulance use. We had a problem with the alternators not keeping up with the power demand, but I see they fixed that issue now.

You just proved my point.......

[zogg]

I am not knocking diesels at all, and I have not tried the newer ones. It I pulled really heavy I would own one because from previoous experience there is no comparison as to what they can pull....

However, I have heard the statement many times to justify buying a diesel that it is worth more when you sell or trade it....and, it truly is.

BUT, the purchase cost of the diesel is higher too......so that seems to be a neutral argument....if you need a diesel to pull then you should buy one, but don't buy one because it'll be worth more upon trade-in..

I remember when I was trading in a old F-150 with a 5 speed manual. The salesman told me he could give me another $1000 for the trade if it had an automatic transmission. I said, "well, I saved the $1000 because the truck was that much cheaper with the manual, so I'm even":. The poor guy didn't seem to understand.

[blt2ski]

One of many diesel vs gas threads on here......hen e still my at top.
But with this in mind.....if I were OP I would get a ne GM with the 6 so granny, an additional 60 or so ponies, I would find that to be cheaper over all, than the iirc about $6-7k or so for a diesel. You can.buy a lot of fuel for that difference. You will not be that much slower other than at elevations of 7000' or above. How often are you that high?
This is from one finding a sb 350 doing fine pulling what my dmax pulled a bit faster, but not enough.to write home about it. Would trade this truck in on an equal 6.0/6 so granny with 4.10 gears.

Marty

[kw_00]

We were and still have fords, 6.0, 6.4 and now 6.7. The 6.7 appears to be a good engine so far. We don't have any dodges in the fleet but I have seen other counties use them in ambulances. So far the gm 6.0 have been holding up in ambulance use. We had a problem with the alternators not keeping up with the power demand, but I see they fixed that issue now.

[transamz9]

kw/00 wrote:
No problem, we are now running Chevy series with 6.0 engines. They now are running natural gas with the conversion. We still have Ford diesels and have also purchased a few more of them. So far the Gm trucks are lasting very well with ambulance use.

What brand diesels did they run to cause them to change to gas? We were running Fords and got hold of the 6.0's and they put a bad taste in our prez mouth so he started burning gas trucks for the next few. I warned him.....we are now buying Ram Cummins. Weird thing is, he is a GM man but will not buy a GM truck. Dont make sense.

[kw_00]

No problem, we are now running Chevy series with 6.0 engines. They now are running natural gas with the conversion. We still have Ford diesels and have also purchased a few more of them. So far the Gm trucks are lasting very well with ambulance use.

[transamz9]

kw/00 wrote:
I cant agree with diesel and gas jobs maintenance being a wash. From owing both, and watching various fleets changing back over to gas, speaks about overall cost/ownership. Others may not agree and I get it, but newer diesel trucks with the emissions will cost you more in maintenance than a gas job. That's my take, you buy a diesel cause you want to. The load that the OP has can be easily moved by the newer gas engines with 6 speed autos regardless of brand. I'm sure this post will set some fires out there. Its not intended to, but overall cost of ownership, the gas job is cheaper. I have personally been in contact with our fleet manager and that's why a lot of our newer trucks are gas. Even if the engine dies, its always cheaper to replace the gas verse the diesel. Now resale is different. Everyone jumps on the fact that diesels are worth more as you sell them. True, but the rest of the truck will still have issues period. Its all about what you want and what your really willing to take a risk on. Both have advantages/disadvantages like anything else. There is no single cure all in trucks, not one size will fit all. I have pulled with both and choose gas. My parents still have diesel, and one day I may go back to one. But not anytime soon, emission issues and potential fuel issues have simply pushed me away. Good luck on your decision.

If I may ask, what brand vehicle does your fleet run?

[kw_00]

I cant agree with diesel and gas jobs maintenance being a wash. From owing both, and watching various fleets changing back over to gas, speaks about overall cost/ownership. Others may not agree and I get it, but newer diesel trucks with the emissions will cost you more in maintenance than a gas job. That's my take, you buy a diesel cause you want to. The load that the OP has can be easily moved by the newer gas engines with 6 speed autos regardless of brand. I'm sure this post will set some fires out there. Its not intended to, but overall cost of ownership, the gas job is cheaper. I have personally been in contact with our fleet manager and that's why a lot of our newer trucks are gas. Even if the engine dies, its always cheaper to replace the gas verse the diesel. Now resale is different. Everyone jumps on the fact that diesels are worth more as you sell them. True, but the rest of the truck will still have issues period. Its all about what you want and what your really willing to take a risk on. Both have advantages/disadvantages like anything else. There is no single cure all in trucks, not one size will fit all. I have pulled with both and choose gas. My parents still have diesel, and one day I may go back to one. But not anytime soon, emission issues and potential fuel issues have simply pushed me away. Good luck on your decision.

[Grit_dog]

GA2500HD wrote:

Grit dog wrote:
Seriously, depends how much you're looking or spend how New you want as to which trucks have what issues.
Diesels I'd consider to be reliable or not have fatal flaws (not just the engine but the whole package) are roughly in this order.
'14-up anything. ('15 -up Pstroke for the exhaust brake)
'11-up Dmax
02-07 Dmax
94-07 Cummins, stick shift only
99-03 7.3 Pstroke. Stick shift preferably.

Any reason why you don't list the 08-10 Duramax? I found a 2008 I'm going to look at and interested why you didn't list those few years.

Of the early dpf emissions, the Duramax is probably the best of them, but I didn't list any 07.5-10 (or 2013 Ram) because they all were more finicky or problematic with emissions than the earlier or later counterparts in my opinion.
Otherwise bulletproof essentially unchanged drivetrain since 2001, says something.

[Greene728]

Zogg
The oil bath and drain overflow was your fault (however, I'm sure you know that). And maintenance vs. gas is pretty much a wash given the longer OCI on diesel. About the only expense gas has over diesel is fuel filters which are maybe once a year unless you rack up the miles. And when talking about these trucks and what they cost, if a set of $100 filters once a year is an issue then the person probably shouldn't even be considering buying one. I'm suspecting your experience was also with an older Diesel engine. The newer ones are completely different. No fumes, superb cold weather start up and warming times, easy maintenance, insane power, DEF equipped trucks get great mileage, etc. I can crank my truck and engage the exhaust brake and fast idle and she will be at operating temps and blowing hot air in 5-6 min. And FWIW I get a TRUE mixed avg 17-18.5mpg empty and 11-13 towing with the common determining factors speed, wind, terrain, depending. Sorry your previous experience wasn't to your likings, but if you haven't tried a newer one you may be in for a surprise!

[zogg]

When we first started towing an RV in 2004, my first 3/4 ton was a Ram cummins for pulling our new 5th wheel....everyone said I needed a diesel. After a year, I traded it for a v10 Ford gas truck and probably won't own another diesel....just too much hassle for me.

First, I froze to death in the winter due to no heat in the cab. A guy told me to "plug it in"....sure enough I found a plug under the hood and started plugging it in at night and it was toasty warm in the morning. Then, a few times I forgot to unplug it....back out of the garage and the darn extension cord was behind my tool box, and over she came....dammitttt.....more than once.

Then I opted to change the oil....put a ten quart pan under the truck and didn't realize it held 12 quarts of oil....never did get all the oil stains off of the garage floor.\!!!!!

Every time I changed the oil filter I took a bath in dirty oil....

My wife complained daily about the diesel fumes going into the house from the garage....ugh

Almost ran out of fuel twice because I couldn't find a station that sold diesel fuel....ouch

Everyone told me I'd get 20+mpg...never happened. THe best I ever got unloaded was 16-17 and towing 9500 pounds was 11 mpg.

I found the maintenance to be a lot more than I ever would have thought...I do all of my own work, but I found it to be a pain.

SO, I traded for a V10 F250 and put in gas, changed the oil, did not have to plug it in, no more fumes, did not run out of fuel, and got 9 mpg towing and gas was about $.75 cheaper per gallon than diesel at that time.

Having said all of that, I currently pull a 8000 pound fifth wheel with a Ram 6.4 gas motor, and it does well. BUT, if I was pulling any more than that, I would buy another diesel in a heart beat.

You cannot beat them for pulling power, if you need them. We pulled a buddy's 14,000 pound 5th wheel from Arizona to Illinois last summer with his F250 powerstroke....no gas motor would had done that job.

Moral is that if you NEED a diesel, buy one...but be sure you need it. My nephew bought one a few years ago because he thought they were cool....That lasted about 6 months and he lost his butt on a trade in.....

The cost of the diesel motor is $6-$8,000....you need to keep it a long while to get your value out of it...

[GA2500HD]

Grit dog wrote:
Seriously, depends how much you're looking or spend how New you want as to which trucks have what issues.
Diesels I'd consider to be reliable or not have fatal flaws (not just the engine but the whole package) are roughly in this order.
'14-up anything. ('15 -up Pstroke for the exhaust brake)
'11-up Dmax
02-07 Dmax
94-07 Cummins, stick shift only
99-03 7.3 Pstroke. Stick shift preferably.

Any reason why you don't list the 08-10 Duramax? I found a 2008 I'm going to look at and interested why you didn't list those few years.