New to the site

[ducky8888]

Having camped off and on since I was a child, I learned very early that tent camping is not for me! A few years ago, my then girlfriend decided we were all going camping. Me and my 2 kids, her and her 4 kids, and my 2 dogs. I ended up finding a decent priced coleman pop-up and put it behind her chrysler mini-van, and I figured out what a horrible mistake it is to haul that much weight through the mountainous back-roads of California.

Fast forward 3 years, I have since broken up with her (sold the trailer for more than what I bought it for), and for a few reasons have begun camping very regularly. From camping in Humboldt for a marathon and local hiking to quads at Sand Mountain in NV, to relaxing by the lake at Bowman or Lyndsey lake. Each of these trips reinforced my hatred of tent camping. I had tent poles break, air mattresses leak, a river of rain water through my tent (right where my clothes were stored). Every trip was riddled with issues and discomfort.

My situation now is this: I am wanting to go out to these places, but I dont want an RV, and a trailer would work, but that limits me to bed storage for motorsports etc. I could get a toy hauler, but thats extreme for my needs and isnt nimble enough to get to some of the camp sites we will be frequenting.

I decided the best solution for me is a new truck (I went with a low mileage 08 Tundra 4x4 double cab trd), a cabover camper (I found a nice '99 Lance 945), and a standard 16ft flatbed trailer to haul my toys when I want them.

I did a lot of research prior to making my purchases so I knew what I was in for when making each purchase, and adjusted my buying accordingly. I bought the truck first, it needed a few mods and repairs to make it camper ready. I went with the torklift tie downs as i wanted to be able to "hide" it when the camper wasnt in the truck. At the same time, I ordered an airbag kit, my only wish was that I had installed them BEFORE buying the camper. Other repairs are minor, such as removing the broken antenna stud and replacing the antenna, a little bit of paint work to make it look better (PO used some crappy blue rattle can paint to try to cover some scratches).

Once I got the tie-downs installed in the truck (PITA!!! had to cut and shave then a bit to get then to fit) I went looking at campers. I found a local guy asking $5000 for this one, and evidently had so many tire-kickers and people who had no clue about these that he was willing to come down to $4000. It doesnt have some features like AC or 110v but that was fine with me. Upon making a deal I ran into the first couple issues. Number one was camper depth versus bed depth... Luckily the RV storage where it was at was in an industrial park and I was able to find a couple pallets to get it loaded. Once it was in the bed I discovered the running lights werent working. Yesterday I discovered that the Tundra has fuses and relays for all of the trailer lights and one of the fuses was blown, phew, easy fix!

I have spent this morning searching, researching, shopping, and buying to fix a few of the concerns I have about the setup and to get fully prepared for an upcoming camping trip.

Cordless drill and jack attachment bit. I have been needing a good cordless drill, this gave me a great excuse to buy one. I have loaded the camper into my truck and unloaded, and this is going to be a must have for me.

I ordered an 18" hitch extension, which should put the hitch (and the steps when installed) right where it needs to be.

The camper was converted to a 7-way trailer connector and the PO included an extension in with the purchase, but this presents an issue because my trailer uses a 7-way as well. I looked around and for ~$180 I could buy a splitter/extender, but I was still presented with the issue of my trailer being 18" further back. My solution is this: I have ordered a 24" 7-way extension, I am cutting the male end off and then splicing this new piece into the camper extender. I also purchased a mount so I can permanently attach the 24" extension to the hitch extender. My plan is to be able to hide everything under the camper when in storage, and when I pull under the camper, I just have to attache the 7-way to my truck, put the hitch extender in, and I am ready to go. My idea it to add some kind of bracket underneath to support the hitch extender. I have thought of ways to get around this, but since I need the hitch extender to use the steps, it makes sense to me to always have it with the camper. I know there are other step solutions, but a large majority of the time I will be using the camper, I will also be hauling the trailer.

I ordered a voltage monitor (comes with a 12v power port and a USB charger port). I am planning to mount this in the kitchen area. I was worried about this being constantly on, even though the draw is very minimal, so I found one with a power switch. Along with this upgrade I decided to convert everything to LED.

I am considering either adding a battery (in the compartment where I have seen generators installed, back lower right corner) in addition to the battery already in the camper, and replacing the existing battery with a deep cycle, or removing the current battery entirely and go with a couple 6v golf cart batteries. Either way I go, I am going to be adding solar panels. I have not decided on how to go about this yet, whether permanently mounting them on the roof is a good idea, or doing something like the flexible mat ones that I can roll up and store during travel.

So, thats what I have planned for the next 2 weeks before my next camping trip. Any tips or ideas are more than welcome.

[realter]

Recently I was reading a post about somebody who had a broken axle, and all of you were giving consolidations to him or her. Something in the post interested me, so I was reading their former posts. Having nothing to do I was back a number of years ago, and suddenly burst out laughing. They had a post very similar to this one, where they were defending their way overloaded truck. So it does happen. Myself, I figure those highly educated mechanical and automotive engineers put these load ratings on vehicles for a reason. And yes, my lightweight NS Laredo on the GMC 2500 is right at GVWR. My posted weight is 2406 lbs, but on numerous scales over the past 6 years the camper weight is 700 to 800 lbs over that, with minimal water, no beer, no dog, and no wife.

[ducky8888]

jmcgsd wrote:
Just one last try. Here is a link to the 2008 Lance brochure:
2008 brochure

Go to the compatibility page to see what the Lance engineers say about the 845. You smarter than them? Do you really want to risk lives to prove it?

Thanks for that link, I was trying to go to their website this morning and it wasnt working.

Lets compare apples to apples. The link you sent is to the 2008 brochure, presumably because I have a 2008 truck. And, looking at those campers, you are right, the '08 845 is not recommended for the '08 tundra.

The '08 845 is listed at 2412lbs dry. the heaviest camper they recommend for the tundra is the 825 listed at 1620lbs dry.

BUT... take a look at the '99 brochure (http://www.lancecamper.com/docs/99-brochure.pdf). the dry weight of the '99 845 is listed at 1897lbs. A difference of 277lbs between the currently recommended camper and the one I own. If I run as close to dry weight as possible then I should be fine. In fact the water alone would account for 275lbs (33 gallons @ 8.35lbs).

Per your suggestion, I contacted Lance directly, they suggest that in their models available today, I can buy either the 825 or the 865. Looking at their website the dry weights on those campers are 1837 and 2011 respectively. They also suggested I contact my local dealer to go over what my truck would need to handle the weight of those campers, made for my truck and suggested by Lance.

[Bedlam]

From what I see, the Tundra has a 4000 lb front axle and 4150 lb rear axle regardless of the tires you currently are using. If you have a link to the axle that says otherwise, please post it.

http://www.tundrasolutions.com/forums/tundra/92884-2007-tundra-gawr-numbers/

[Reddog1]

To all, discuss, argue, express different opinions, all good. Name calling is not good.

Wayne
Moderator

[jmcgsd]

Just one last try. Here is a link to the 2008 Lance brochure:
2008 brochure

Go to the compatibility page to see what the Lance engineers say about the 845. You smarter than them? Do you really want to risk lives to prove it?

[ducky8888]

pcoplin wrote:

ducky8888 wrote:


Yes, you are right, mistype there, it is an 845.

...
Research puts the 845 at ~2200lbs dry. With a ~1500 load limit I am 700lbs over just with the camper. I add the airbags which are rated to increase load capacity 3200-5000lbs.

I'm no weight Nazi, and don't care about the laws pertaining to your truck. I just want you to know the real weight of that camper.

That weight is no options, no water, no nothing. It'll end up being 1000 pounds heavier than that. Easy. And you will likely be over weight on your tires and wheels. And brakes. It's not just springs.


I have a 2001 915 Lite. Lance says 2400 lbs dry if I remember right. I have some options: insulation package, electric jacks, extra propane tank, oven, etc, adds 400 pounds Lance states in their brochre. The brochure should have weights for your options. Full water adds 270 lbs by itself. Plus mayo, shoes, beer, etc.

My "2400lb dry" camper weighs 3500 loaded. Just be careful.

My camper is the no frills version. No AC, no generator, manual jacks, single propane. I highly doubt I am hitting 3000lbs on each wheel, and if I read the weight ratings correctly, I have 2 tires in back, giving me a 6000lb total load capacity in the rear (and another 6000lbs in the front), please correct me if I am wrong.

As I explained in a previous post, the springs are the weak point in hauling in this truck. Since I cant find stats on the brakes, all I can say is I know toyota rated the truck to pull over 10k, my assumption would be that this is intended to be taken in context and not all of that weight is be stopped purely by the brakes on the truck, but, they also didnt under design the braking.

I have also considered using the space available on my trailer for extraneous gear (ice chests, clothing bags, etc.), because my hauling capacity is significantly higher than my load capacity. the biggest weight addition to the truck will be when I am not using the trailer for camping, i.e. not taking the quads, but then again i will have a zero tongue weight.

[hedgehopper]

We've had our say. I suggest we bow out. The OP is going to do what he's going to do.

[jmcgsd]

ducky8888 wrote:

jmcgsd wrote:
Excuse me, but air bags INCREASE load capacity? How? Do they magically take weight off the axles, tires? Do they make brakes more efficient? I'm stumped.

What is used to determine load capacity? Load capacity is a combination of factors, correct? I have already stated my tires are rated at over 3000lbs each. The brakes are rated to stop weights much more than what I am stating based on Toyota's figures. So what is the limitation? the springs... So, tires that can handle the weight I am putting back there, brakes that can handle the weight, but springs that cant... increase the amount that the springs can handle.... therefore increasing the capacity of the load.

If you have a chain, and it has a link that can handle 1500lbs, one that can handle 3000, and one that can handle 10k, then the "weak link" makes the overall strength of the chain at 1500lbs. If you increase the strength of that link to be able to handle 5000lbs, then the weak link then becomes the 3000lbs link. So, by increasing the ability of the weak ling, the overall capacity that the chain can handle is increased.

Are you under the impression that because the springs cant handle the weight, that by putting in something to assist the springs, or replacing them with something better doesnt increase the ability of the truck?

My friend you asked advice on a forum that is visited by many long time TC users. Between us we have had many combinations of campers and trucks and I'd venture to guess that the majority of us have had combinations that have sometimes been uncomfortable or down right scary!

In my own case I had one of Lance's lightest - an 835 lite on an '89 F250 diesel. It had air bags, upgraded tire, yarda, yada but it was still a dog climbing hills and a bear in a strong wind.

We have been talking from experience, which you apparently either don't want to hear or are choosing to ignore.

All the best to you.

[ducky8888]

jmcgsd wrote:
Excuse me, but air bags INCREASE load capacity? How? Do they magically take weight off the axles, tires? Do they make brakes more efficient? I'm stumped.

What is used to determine load capacity? Load capacity is a combination of factors, correct? I have already stated my tires are rated at over 3000lbs each. The brakes are rated to stop weights much more than what I am stating based on Toyota's figures. So what is the limitation? the springs... So, tires that can handle the weight I am putting back there, brakes that can handle the weight, but springs that cant... increase the amount that the springs can handle.... therefore increasing the capacity of the load.

If you have a chain, and it has a link that can handle 1500lbs, one that can handle 3000, and one that can handle 10k, then the "weak link" makes the overall strength of the chain at 1500lbs. If you increase the strength of that link to be able to handle 5000lbs, then the weak link then becomes the 3000lbs link. So, by increasing the ability of the weak ling, the overall capacity that the chain can handle is increased.

Are you under the impression that because the springs cant handle the weight, that by putting in something to assist the springs, or replacing them with something better doesnt increase the ability of the truck?

[pcoplin]

ducky8888 wrote:


Yes, you are right, mistype there, it is an 845.

...
Research puts the 845 at ~2200lbs dry. With a ~1500 load limit I am 700lbs over just with the camper. I add the airbags which are rated to increase load capacity 3200-5000lbs.

I'm no weight Nazi, and don't care about the laws pertaining to your truck. I just want you to know the real weight of that camper.

That weight is no options, no water, no nothing. It'll end up being 1000 pounds heavier than that. Easy. And you will likely be over weight on your tires and wheels. And brakes. It's not just springs.


I have a 2001 915 Lite. Lance says 2400 lbs dry if I remember right. I have some options: insulation package, electric jacks, extra propane tank, oven, etc, adds 400 pounds Lance states in their brochre. The brochure should have weights for your options. Full water adds 270 lbs by itself. Plus mayo, shoes, beer, etc.

My "2400lb dry" camper weighs 3500 loaded. Just be careful.

[jmcgsd]

Excuse me, but air bags INCREASE load capacity? How? Do they magically take weight off the axles, tires? Do they make brakes more efficient? I'm stumped.

[mkirsch]

You seem to have the situation well in hand. Please make sure to get back with us regularly and tell us exactly how things are going for you.

[ducky8888]

pcoplin wrote:
I doubt that truck even has E rated tires on it. May be P metric tires on it?



And are you sure on the 1999? maybe it's an 845? Or maybe an earlier 945?

Yes, you are right, mistype there, it is an 845.

The tires are rated at 3086lbs load max.

I have read everyone's replies, and I understand why you have all commented. I agree, if you look at the sticker on the door jamb and do the math, according to those numbers, the truck is overloaded.

Another thing I understand is that there are other factors in play when it comes to where the weight numbers come from. For example, I worked at a place that bought a ford f550 and sent it off to have a flatbed installed. We received a call from the flatbed company and they asked us what weight we were going to be hauling. They explained that if we tell them 600lbs then the truck will fall under certain guidelines and registration and insurance will be more expensive, but if we tell them 500lbs it will all be much cheaper.

So here we had this beast of a truck that was only "rated" to carry around 100 bricks. yet, I frequently loaded the truck with pallets of brick, or sod, and never had an issue... How is it possible that the sticker on the door said it could only carry 500lbs, yet miraculously we were somehow able to load much more onto the truck? And how is it that insurance costs and registration fees were a reason as to why a manufacturer would reduce what the vehicle was allowed to haul?

Point being, the vehicle weight limits are not necessarily determined by the capability of the vehicle.

I have a tundra and I have a lance 845 (sorry for the typo), and I am going to modify the truck to haul it around. The engine has the power. The tranny is strong enough to hold up. the brakes are more than adequate. the axles are well built. the ONLY issue I currently have is the suspension feels unsafe. So that is getting modified to properly handle the weight.

The reason I chose a tundra is for reliability. I dont want to get into "my brand is better" debate, but my experience led me to where I am. I can list dozens of examples of American "branded" trucks and the issues I have seen. If I am going to spend the money on a rig, I am going to spend it on something that I believe I can rely on to get me from point A to point B without any troubles. I would rather spend the money to properly equip a tundra than buy a "properly equipped" ford, dodge, or chevy. I would rather spend the money to modify a tundra now than to spend a bunch more while I am out in the desert, or 1000 miles from home when my ford decides to blow a radiator or my dodge gives up a rear end (wanna guess how I came up with those examples?). Even if this means aftermarket springs and airbags and sway bars.

Research puts the 845 at ~2200lbs dry. With a ~1500 load limit I am 700lbs over just with the camper. I add the airbags which are rated to increase load capacity 3200-5000lbs. I have to believe that the airbags will at least help in carrying the load (remind me what semi trucks/trailers use for their suspension?). I am sure this will only spark more debates about that really equates to gvrw calculations, then maybe the legality of overloading a truck. In the end, what does it come down to? Safety. I was driving a dodge van the other day. It was converted into an RV. that thing was legal to drive on the roads, yet in the short period I drove it, I felt it was one of the most unsafe feeling vehicles I had ever driven. I have driven concrete trucks, flatbed semis, transfer trucks, and this dodge van had a massive stopping distance (the reason for my test drive was to check the new brand new front pads, rotors, calipers and hoses on this 60k mile van), every turn felt like it was going to tip over, and even the slightest gust of wind at highway speeds caused it to sway.

In the end, using my experience, I am confident that my setup will be able to be operated safely. If you want to discuss legality, I am sure you always drive 65mph MAX or 55mph with a trailer right (in california)? The state has determined those are the safest speeds to travel at, and the government must be correct... I bet you always use your blinkers and never use your phone... You always leave 1 car length per 10mph between you and the car in front of you... Shall I go on or should I list more laws that are supposed to make everyone a safe driver that everyone breaks regularly, if not consistently.

[pcoplin]

I doubt that truck even has E rated tires on it. May be P metric tires on it?



And are you sure on the 1999? maybe it's an 845? Or maybe an earlier 945?

[Rollin]

Well, it looks like hedgehopper hit the nail on the head. You thought you had problems in the mountains with the other rig? Way to heavey a load to carry even with bags, anything out there on that hitch will add to your headache as well. I like Tundras and with a cap they probably could handle the toys in the trailer but not the addition of the lance loaded for boondocking. Don't want to burst your bubble but there's a reason for bigger stronger trucks.