Propane Tank Recertification?

[Tarkin75]

Anyone in the PNW know of a good place to have a propane tank recertified? or a new valve replaced?

I got an old tank with an old valve and a bit of propane in it, but it's the old valve you can't refill I think. I was told by one of the RV shops I called to try central welding, who then said to try suburban propane. I haven't tried suburban propane as it just seems like a huge company that i'd rather not deal with.

So any advice?

Later
C

[JoeChiOhki]

Tarkin75 wrote:

-Kevin wrote:
I've had pacer in Redmond do mine before. not the cheapest though.

I did end up going to Suburban Propane in Tukwila... It was 15$ to do the recertification, include the sticker, etc, etc... The propane fill was actually kind of expensive though. Oh well I only needed a couple gallons.

The guy there actually said it likely wasn't possible to even retrofit an OPD valve. It sounded like he thought it could be done on some of them, and that may have been part of the confusion with the CSR when I called earlier.

Later
C

It depends on where the valve is on the cylinder. If it's up towards the top (as it lays on it's side) it's possible to retrofit, but if it's dead center, as a lot are, it's not.

[Tarkin75]

-Kevin wrote:
I've had pacer in Redmond do mine before. not the cheapest though.

I did end up going to Suburban Propane in Tukwila... It was 15$ to do the recertification, include the sticker, etc, etc... The propane fill was actually kind of expensive though. Oh well I only needed a couple gallons.

The guy there actually said it likely wasn't possible to even retrofit an OPD valve. It sounded like he thought it could be done on some of them, and that may have been part of the confusion with the CSR when I called earlier.

Later
C

[JoeChiOhki]

Kampinklutz wrote:
This thread encouraged me to create an account so I could post a reply!

Not to barge in here but maybe I can help...

I manage a local Propane company in Northern California and re-qualifying LP cylinders can be confusing. Especially when you toss in horizontal tanks found in RV's.

The links posted before by Reddog1 are where to go if you need specifics but here are some general rules that we abide by.

By law we can't fill any vertical tank with a capacity over 10 gallons (or 40 pounds) that does not have an OPD (Overfill Protection Device) valve installed. OPD valves are typically identified by looking at the valve handle shape.

Triangular handle is good, Round is bad.

There are rare exceptions to this rule, but if in doubt look for the letters 'OPD' stamped on the brass valve body.

Horizontal tanks are the odd bird though. Since they vary in venting design and dimensions, the older ones are exempt from the OPD rule. Basically since we can't re-valve them with new OPD valves (as we can all vertical cylinders) the decision makers allowed them to remain in service as many are specifically built to fit oddball compartments.

All D.O.T. tanks are required to be re-qualified 12 years after manufacture and then every 5 years after that. The cylinder's birth date code will be stamped into the collar protecting the valve. Typically it will be the month-year in a 2 digit format (ie: "10-10" would be October, 2010)

D.O.T. tanks are the only type of tanks that are allowed to be used in vehicles/RV's or anything that runs on the road.

A.S.M.E tanks are not approved for RV use and you should never see them on anything other than the back of one of our Boom-trucks. They have no valve protection, are made with thinner steel and do not belong 'in or under' any vehicle. We're even required to fill out a special permit to transport them when filled with more than 10% of the tanks capacity. They do not ever require re-certification.

When we re-certify a D.O.T cylinder, we look for excessive rust or wall pitting, bent or broken collars or collar welds and dents or deformations to the cylinder itself. Most cylinders if taken care of will last forever. A new date code is stamped on the cylinder or collar after being re-certified.

We also give out a certificate of re-qualification with our company logo that helps travelers avoid the frustration when trying to re-fill
any cylinder over 12 years old. Make sure to keep it handy in the vehicle to prevent filling stations from having any questions.

Hope I've helped a little, If anyone has any propane questions you can PM me or post a topic and I'll do my best to answer them. 😃

California must be unique, everywhere else I've been is 40lbs and under that requires OPD, anything bigger than 40lbs not requiring an OPD. 🙂

[-Kevin]

I've had pacer in Redmond do mine before. not the cheapest though.

[Rex_Haul]

First I would like to pass on my condolences at the passing of Frank Spence April 26th, 2012.

I'm a newb, this week I will pick up my new-to-me MH from the States. And, if I understand correctly, what we have are two different propane filling issues on two different types of propane containers in two time frames:

Pre Mid-1998 (Triangular valve) and Post 1998 (Round Valve)

"Tanks" are the horizontally mounted permanent type affixed to the frame of a MH.
"Cylinders" are the vertical portable kind found connected to BBQs.

And the two issues are recertification and the propane dispenser's lack of understanding of the facts.

I'm Canadian so some of you may tune out but I did some digging. ASME or horizontal, permanently affixed propane tanks older than mid-1998 are indeed exempt from valve replacement AND recertification IF they bear a CRN number.

In Canada, the CSA has admitted that they did a piss-poor job of writing the standard and are reconvening this year to clear things up because of all the confusion at the pump. The TSSA, who disseminates and manages the standards set by the CSA has been less than helpful. Propane suppliers (stations) are just trying to follow the rules and the confusion stems from cylinders vs tanks, age and valve type.

I don't know what the sticker in the USA looks like but in Canada, Propane Filling Station attendants are looking for a diamond shaped green and white sticker affixed to the inside of a window nearest the propane tank on a HM. (Can anyone post an image of this sticker?)

I assume that sticker will will have some date holes punched out of it.

So, what I am going to do is get the MH vender to have the tank recertified before I take delivery of my MH. Then, when I get back across the border (I'm told this issue does not impact importation) I am going to get a propane conversion center to issue me said sticker.

End of problem. I will have a Certificate and a sticker. If my local dispenser still has a problem, I will use these tools to help the manager/owner learn. Total cost to me? <$50.00

[Simplygib]

Tarkin75 wrote:

Reddog1 wrote:
When the lady at Suburban Propane even quoted the regulation you're quoting and said there are some exclusions, did she say what they were? I mean no disrespect to the person who does this for a living, but it would not be the first time they were incorrect.

I went through this with the last TC I had. The real problem is when and if you get the problem solved locally, you may not be able to get them filled on the road.

Wayne

I have a feeling it's more of a CYA type of scenario where it's easier to have the guys who do the work check it out and estimate what is needed. And i'm ok with that... doesn't hurt to call around and get more opinions though before I make a trek somewhere.

Your last point is what i'd like to avoid... If a recertification + new valve brings the tank up to the point where I don't ever have to worry about that, all the better for me and the fiance.

Later
C

I think this is one of those cases where calling every propane dealer under the sun is pretty much a waste of time. Just take the tanks in and ask them to recertify them. If they won't, take them to the next place.

I have two 1993 horizontal 30-pound tanks that came with my 5th wheel, no OPD valves. The guy at Suburban here in Grants Pass never even blinked. He said pretty much what Reddog1 said from the beginning - older than '98, no OPD required, recertification gets another 5 years. He recertified them on the spot, filled em up and cut me loose. That was last year. Just had them refilled again the other day at a gas station. They checked the recertification stamp, filled em up and sent me on my way.

[69_Avion]

enblethen wrote:
ASME tanks are the standard tanks used for permanent installations on RVs.
ASME RV tanks
DOT tanks are standard for removable/portable tanks.
DOT tanks

You are correct. The ASME tanks that I have seen for permanent use on RVs have the valve protection on them. As I stated earlier, my major LP supplier inspected mine and put a DOT inspection sticker on them, not because they were required, but to eliminate some confusion for suppliers that won't fill a tank if they don't see a certification. My Camper may be old, but my family is the original owner and the Manchester ASME tanks are original to that camper.
The poster above is absolutely correct, as I understand the law, ASME tanks don't require recertification.

[enblethen]

ASME tanks are the standard tanks used for permanent installations on RVs.
ASME RV tanks
DOT tanks are standard for removable/portable tanks.
DOT tanks

[Kampinklutz]

This thread encouraged me to create an account so I could post a reply!

Not to barge in here but maybe I can help...

I manage a local Propane company in Northern California and re-qualifying LP cylinders can be confusing. Especially when you toss in horizontal tanks found in RV's.

The links posted before by Reddog1 are where to go if you need specifics but here are some general rules that we abide by.

By law we can't fill any vertical tank with a capacity over 10 gallons (or 40 pounds) that does not have an OPD (Overfill Protection Device) valve installed. OPD valves are typically identified by looking at the valve handle shape.

Triangular handle is good, Round is bad.

There are rare exceptions to this rule, but if in doubt look for the letters 'OPD' stamped on the brass valve body.

Horizontal tanks are the odd bird though. Since they vary in venting design and dimensions, the older ones are exempt from the OPD rule. Basically since we can't re-valve them with new OPD valves (as we can all vertical cylinders) the decision makers allowed them to remain in service as many are specifically built to fit oddball compartments.

All D.O.T. tanks are required to be re-qualified 12 years after manufacture and then every 5 years after that. The cylinder's birth date code will be stamped into the collar protecting the valve. Typically it will be the month-year in a 2 digit format (ie: "10-10" would be October, 2010)

D.O.T. tanks are the only type of tanks that are allowed to be used in vehicles/RV's or anything that runs on the road.

A.S.M.E tanks are not approved for RV use and you should never see them on anything other than the back of one of our Boom-trucks. They have no valve protection, are made with thinner steel and do not belong 'in or under' any vehicle. We're even required to fill out a special permit to transport them when filled with more than 10% of the tanks capacity. They do not ever require re-certification.

When we re-certify a D.O.T cylinder, we look for excessive rust or wall pitting, bent or broken collars or collar welds and dents or deformations to the cylinder itself. Most cylinders if taken care of will last forever. A new date code is stamped on the cylinder or collar after being re-certified.

We also give out a certificate of re-qualification with our company logo that helps travelers avoid the frustration when trying to re-fill
any cylinder over 12 years old. Make sure to keep it handy in the vehicle to prevent filling stations from having any questions.

Hope I've helped a little, If anyone has any propane questions you can PM me or post a topic and I'll do my best to answer them. 😃

[Tarkin75]

Reddog1 wrote:
When the lady at Suburban Propane even quoted the regulation you're quoting and said there are some exclusions, did she say what they were? I mean no disrespect to the person who does this for a living, but it would not be the first time they were incorrect.

I went through this with the last TC I had. The real problem is when and if you get the problem solved locally, you may not be able to get them filled on the road.

Wayne

I have a feeling it's more of a CYA type of scenario where it's easier to have the guys who do the work check it out and estimate what is needed. And i'm ok with that... doesn't hurt to call around and get more opinions though before I make a trek somewhere.

Your last point is what i'd like to avoid... If a recertification + new valve brings the tank up to the point where I don't ever have to worry about that, all the better for me and the fiance.

Later
C

[Reddog1]

It is fair to say, most businesses do what they choose to do. It is also true you must find some place to deal with your tank.

When the lady at Suburban Propane even quoted the regulation you're quoting and said there are some exclusions, did she say what they were? I mean no disrespect to the person who does this for a living, but it would not be the first time they were incorrect. Considering the cost of the horizontal cylinder, I would want to talk to the manager, and when I did it would be with a printed copy of the regulations in hand. If they simply refuse to fill the cylinder, you nor I can change that.

I went through this with the last TC I had. The real problem is when and if you get the problem solved locally, you may not be able to get them filled on the road.

Wayne

[69_Avion]

ASME tanks are horizontal tanks that are considered "permanent" as far as mounting goes. I may be wrong, but I don't think that they have the same schedule of recertification that the regular DOT tanks have.
I had my ASME tanks recertified with a DOT sticker to make it easier to get filled since my local propane professional knew I would run into a refill problem somewhere along the way. They are not DOT tanks, but many refilling places don't know the difference.

[Tarkin75]

Red, that's all well and good, but at the end of the day you still have to find some place local or non local to deal with your "old tank" just like the people in your link.

reading all your links is all well and good, but you're not going to convince the guy at whatever dealer/filler you go to if they think otherwise just because you quote some regulation. Right or not, it doesn't matter.

The lady at Suburban Propane even quoted the regulation you're quoting and said there are some exclusions. Maybe she's mistaken, just doesn't know, or is trying to cover the company's Ass, but either way you have to give some credit to what the person who does this for a living says.

Later
C

[Reddog1]

Tarkin75 wrote:
I did call suburban propane and just like the forums:) The answers are varied. Their suggestion was just to take it into a local Suburban Propane office to have it looked at. They said that they thought all horizontal tanks were grand fathered, but they said there were some exclusions or "maybe's" here and there.

A simple re certification was 15$, but depending on if, and or what kind of valve she said the total cost could go up to 90$.

I'll call an amerigas and get their thoughts, and probably take it in to be looked at soon.

later
C

A good read:

Propane Tanks, OPD & Requalification Regulations

It can't get much clearer than this (includes DOT regulations):

Overfilling Prevention Device (OPD) FAQ


I would have stopped posting sometimes back, but I think this is a very important subject. It is pointless to provide supporting links on any subject, if people do not read them. To simply recognize they were posted is a good start.

Wayne