RAM 1500 EcoDiesel sets new record for MPG

[ib516]

EPA Rated at 20 city / 28 hwy / 23 combined

LINKY

[otrfun]

Those caught up in the cost/benefit debate loop ignore the realworld of emotional response. I ask you this. There are two, new 1/2 ton pickups on a lot, same make, color, and year. They both have the same drivetrain configuration, MPG, payload, and tow specs. One truck costs $30,000, the other, $45,000 (which has all the fancy trim, interior, and wheels). Which one would you buy? The price difference of $15,000 will buy the average 1/2 ton owner 4 years worth of gas!! The $45,000 truck will haul, pull the same, and have to stop at the same gas stations as the $30,000 truck. Why would anyone buy the $45,000 truck? For those caught up in the intellectual minutia of cost/benefit, how do you quantify this emotional part?

IMO, the AVERAGE person who will buy this truck won't put as much weight on the price of diesel and all the other hoopla mentioned that goes with owning a diesel. All these numbers being thrown around, again ignore one key element, the emotional pull of a product. Assuming the worst case scenario and the Ecodiesel breaks even in terms of cost/benefit, then it still has a big chance of success. Why? Two reasons. One, the "perceived" longevity and economy of a diesel engine to the AVERAGE buyer, and two, the experience of driving a turbo-charged, 24 valve, DOHC, 3.0 liter engine, that has more torque (at HALF the RPM) than a 5.7 Hemi. This same experience is a huge part of the Ecoboost's success. How do you quantify a visceral experience like that with numbers?

Nothing is a given for the Ecodiesel. Success or failure. However, to continually leave out the emotional perspective of a vehicle purchase misses a huge part of the picture. There's a reason many leave it out. All you have to do is watch one episode of Dr. Phil to know why--lol!!

[nevadanick]

Every single person on here could get by with less truck than they have but choose to own the the one they have. Ram just made another choice and there is nothing wrong with that or buying one to haul air and commute.

[Fordlover]

bmanning wrote:
National average fuel prices from AAA:
87oct $3.27
premium $3.63
#2 diesel $3.91

20/28/23 burning #2:
19.55 cents/mile city ($3.91/20)
13.96 cents/mile hwy ($3.91/28)
17 cents/mile combined ($3.91/23)

Theoretical truck burning 87oct would need to make 16.73city/23.42hwy/19.24combined
to spend exactly the same on fuel.

So, can be spun different ways but in my mind...

You can get a full-size half-ton with 420ft/lb & plenty of capability while spending about the same as keeping a small or mid-size gasoline SUV fed.

A win for Ram in my book.

Guess it depends on what the owner is using the truck for. Doesn't the Ram gas V6 get a 25MPG highway rating? Only a 3MPG improvement on highway (and of course more torque) in exchange for more expensive fuel (on average) and perhaps more expensive maintaince? Not sure the payoff is there for the average "I only use my truck to haul air and commute 35 miles a day" truck buyer.

[ib516]

Seymore wrote:
Be intersting to see if Ford and GM follow now.

Ford is putting all of their eggs in the EcoBoost basket.

The new F150 (2015) has a 2.7L EcoBoost V6 :E.

Haven't heard about GM coming out with anything competitive, other than their 4.3L V6.

[APT]

C Schomer wrote:
Isn't the 3.6 v6 gasser rated 25mpg? I love my diesel for a TV but I doubt if I'd get a diesel when a gasser gets that close for mpg. Craig

That is the point. The Ram Ecodiesel offers better than Hemi torque and better than wimpy gas V6 fuel economy. If someone doesn't want the extra torque, then the gas V6 is fine.

Many diesels exceed their EPA ratings. We shall see how this Ram does.

[APT]

bmanning wrote:
National average fuel prices from AAA:
87oct $3.27
premium $3.63
#2 diesel $3.91

20/28/23 burning #2:
19.55 cents/mile city ($3.91/20)
13.96 cents/mile hwy ($3.91/28)
17 cents/mile combined ($3.91/23)

Wait 6 months and reevaluate. Gasoline will be up to $4 again. Diesel has been $4/gallon for several years. Gas fluctuates throughout the year with highs in May-July and lows Nov-Jan.

I have had a diesel daily driver for almost 2 years. My lifetime average is 38.1mpg with aggressive driving. I love the diesel torque and use it frequently. Comparably, I also drive a 2011 Malibu with 4-cyl and barely get the 22mpg EPA city rating. Despite having 30 more horespower, it is not tuned to my driving style and always in a gear or 3 too low.

Next up for Ram: please work on that half ton payload!

[PAThwacker]

mercedes have been building diesels for over 40 years. Vw tdi for atleast 15 years, before that they called them ecodiesel.
I had an 87 inline 6cyl turbo diesel Mercedes. that thing was fast!

[PAThwacker]

we had a vm motori 2.8 turbo diesel in a 2005 liberty. I loved that dirty diesel buggy. 25mpg,5000lb towing.

[bucky]

Mercedes has been building and selling diesels for many years. Paraphrasing what the man said to Dan Quayle, Ram sir, you are no Mercedes. We'll have to wait and see how 1500 diesels sell, but I applaud Ram for throwing it out there.

[nevadanick]

We have a Mercedes GL350, its a 7 passenger awd suv with V6 dsl. It gets better mpg than what was rated, is used primarily for short trips with a long trip a few times a year and has had no emmissions problems. Oil change is every 10k mi. In my mind this new Ram will be very similar to our MB.

[ScottG]

What one generation wants is meaningless to the next generation. People used to always want a big block gas engine in tow vehicles. Now very few do.
Maybe people want more towing ability without having to buy a $60,000 truck or live with its harsher ride. It is definitely a price point.

[v10superduty]

Dog Folks wrote:

Seymore wrote:
Be intersting to see if Ford and GM follow now.

I expect they will as the demand for a 1/2 ton, with a diesel is high.

Not sure where you get your info?

IF the demand was that high, thy would have been available all along.
This offering is more to do with meeting CAFE, etc.
Its really a niche market but Ford and GM may follow suit.

Folks who do buy them will most likely do it because its different than what their buddies have and will give them one up.
Some will use the money they will save on economy to fool their wives for approval but really after an ownership cycle of about 5 yrs they really won't be ahead dollar wise.

This reminds me of all the guys saying they would buy a Ford or a GM 3/4 or 1 ton with a manual trans "IF" it was available.
It "was" available for years and not enough bought them so they are gone.
I challenge someone to go back over this forum only and find all the guys on here who have said for the last 5 yrs that whoever puts a diesel in a half ton first gets their business; and follow up to see how many step up and buy this new Ram/Dodge/Fiat Corp truck.
I would bet less than 1%
We all want what we can't have...:W

[jus2shy]

OK, I know people are really trying to draw from personal experience in regards to what they predict reliability of this motor will be. However, it seems like everyone is suppositioning everything on the VM Motori motor to be exactly the same as the Cummins/Power Stroke/Duramax. I've been curious myself and I wonder if this will be more comparable to something like Toureg Diesel? Mercedes GLK Bluetec? Audi Q5? etc... Personally, I haven't read much about these vehicles having issues being driven in town and on the highway. And I'm thinking that a half-ton will most likely have tuning similar to these other heavy truckish vehicles.

This is really a wait and see type of thing. Here in the PNW, these diesel rigs sell like hot cakes. VW dealerships are constantly selling out on TDI models of all makes, same with Audi. BMW and MB move a lot of D series or Bluetec vehicles respectively. Another item that people tend to forget is that Diesel prices tend to be tied with home heating oil prices. So winter is not the best time of year for Diesels. Heating oil is nearly the same fuel blended with different additives for furnaces versus engines. Depending on the time of year, the delta between diesel and regular unleaded varies. Data below is taken from the EIA as an average for the U.S. YMMV depending on what region you're from. Also with this new battering of cold weather hitting the US, Diesel prices did spike. Unleaded sinks because it is only tied to driving and well... not a lot of driving is going on with this weather. I tried to format it as well as this forum will let me.

Day - Reg Unleaded - Diesel - Delta - % difference
1/1/2014 - 3.313 - 3.893 - 0.58 - 18%
12/1/2013 - 3.276 - 3.882 - 0.606 - 18%
11/1/2013 - 3.243 - 3.839 - 0.596 - 18%
10/1/2013 - 3.344 - 3.885 - 0.541 - 16%
9/1/2013 - 3.532 - 3.961 - 0.429 - 12%
8/1/2013 - 3.574 - 3.905 - 0.331 - 9%
7/1/2013 - 3.591 - 3.866 - 0.275 - 8%
6/1/2013 - 3.626 - 3.849 - 0.223 - 6%
5/1/2013 - 3.615 - 3.87 - 0.255 - 7%
4/1/2013 - 3.57 - 3.93 - 0.36 - 10%
3/1/2013 - 3.711 - 4.068 - 0.357 - 10%
2/1/2013 - 3.67 - 4.111 - 0.441 - 12%
1/1/2013 - 3.319 - 3.909 - 0.59 - 18%
12/1/2012 - 3.31 - 3.961 - 0.651 - 20%
11/1/2012 - 3.452 - 4 - 0.548 - 16%
10/1/2012 - 3.746 - 4.094 - 0.348 - 9%
9/1/2012 - 3.849 - 4.12 - 0.271 - 7%
8/1/2012 - 3.722 - 3.983 - 0.261 - 7%
7/1/2012 - 3.439 - 3.721 - 0.282 - 8%
6/1/2012 - 3.539 - 3.759 - 0.22 - 6%
5/1/2012 - 3.732 - 3.979 - 0.247 - 7%
4/1/2012 - 3.9 - 4.115 - 0.215 - 6%
3/1/2012 - 3.852 - 4.127 - 0.275 - 7%
2/1/2012 - 3.579 - 3.953 - 0.374 - 10%
1/1/2012 - 3.38 - 3.833 - 0.453 - 13%

[ScottG]

N-Trouble wrote:

ScottG wrote:

N-Trouble wrote:
Real world numbers I suspect will be much less especially if people use these as grocery getters for short around town trips. Modern diesel DPF systems don't work well under these conditions and will only lead to more frequent and longer regen cycles hurting mileage.

Just wait til they get released and all the people calling foul when they find their mileage numbers are no where near EPA figures.

Actually the very newest diesels don't have problems with short trips as much as those just a couple of years ago. The use of Urea drastically cut the need for regens.

Are you basing this on first hand knowledge, or something you read in a magazine???
I have a 2012 Duramax that uses DEF and can tell you the emissions systems on these trucks don't like short trips. Its no different than my cousins 2009 Duramax minus DEF. There are lots of 3/4 ton diesel owners whos rigs use DEF that will tell you exactly the same thing. WHile these sytems work well when the truck is being worked carrying heavy loads or used for long highway trips, short around town trips/commutes are not where they shine. Mileage goes down the tube in a hurry. I expect the Ecodiesel will be no different in this regard.

I base this of technical articles and real world experiences - Duramax's aside.
This is for Cummins engines. Maybe I wrongly assumed DM's would be the same.
You say "lots of owners.." - please quantify that because I know "lots of diesel owners" (and fleets) and I don't hear that.

[C_Schomer]

Isn't the 3.6 v6 gasser rated 25mpg? I love my diesel for a TV but I doubt if I'd get a diesel when a gasser gets that close for mpg. Craig