Rated engine power

ShinerBock wrote:

Huntindog wrote:

ShinerBock wrote:

Huntindog wrote:

"Certified power" just means that they had a third party SAE licenced person witness them do the J1349 or J1995 test.

I would not discount this requirement with "just".

If you want real figures that you can rely on..... It is a big deal. Those that do it seem to always perform better, in spite of having lower numbers.

Whenever a company is allowed to self test anything, they always come up with better results.

In my buisiness, I have seen janitorial companies self test the emissions of their equiptment.... Wanna guess how often they fail?
OSHA allows this... What a joke.

On the retail side, we self inspect food safety aspects of the buisiness... Same thing, good scores invariably result. Of course when the health dept shows up..... The truth shows up in their report.. So now we have a independant company show up to do unanounced suprise inspections, in addtion to our self inspections. The outside company is very tough, and our health dept scores have improved dramactically as a result.

This self dyno testing works the same way... It is human nature to want a good score.... It doesn't matter what is being measured. If we are allowed to do it ourselves, our score WILL be better.

No it is not a big deal unless you have some reason not to trust the brand you are buying from. If that is the case then I would question why you are even buying from them.

The certification is just a way for SAE to get more money. SAE sells licences to these certified witnesses (who can work for vehicle manufacturer) and forces the manufacturer to use these witnesses. Without these witnesses, SAE does not receive as much money.

This is all it takes to be a witness.

"Qualifications of a Witness
Witnesses for engine power and torque certification testing shall be registered with SAE. Witnesses shall be competent engineers who are experienced in engine testing and familiar with the requirements of the SAE J1349® and SAE J1995® standards. Witnesses registered by SAE shall meet one of the following criteria:

Prior registration as a witness for European homologation testing and a signed statement acknowledging that the individual has studied and understands the SAE procedures.

Documented and verified experience in engine testing with three recommendations from individuals who are registered witnesses themselves or whose technical training and experience establish them as competent to evaluate the individual's skills as a witness. In addition, a signed statement is required acknowledging that the individual to be registered has studied and understands the SAE J1349® and SAE J1995® testing procedures.

A Bachelors Degree in Engineering or equivalent plus 5 years of related engine testing experience and completion of an SAE-approved training course. Documented participation as an "apprentice witness" in at least three (3) SAE J1349® or SAE J1995® test procedures conducted by an SAE-certified witness who attests to the competency of that individual to conduct witness tests may be substituted for completion of an SAE-approved training course.

Other qualified individuals who are identified and appointed by the SAE Engine Power Test Code Committee. The witness will provide a signed statement acknowledging that the individual has studied and understands the relevant SAE test procedures."

It works the same way with manufacturers when they say a product has to pass a certain standard that they themselves create. The product has to pay the manufacturer to test their product to this standard.

I remember about a decade ago when Cat recommended that coolant for one of their engines had to pass a certain standard number that only their coolant had passed on a certain engine. They built special test equipment for this standard that cost tens of thousands of dollars and tore it down after their coolant passed the standard. This allowed them to sell only their coolant to those dumb idiots who only go by what the manufacturer recommends without any competition.

The other coolant companies had to pay Cat lots of money to rebuilt this test equipment in order to receive this test standard number. Ironically the other coolants passed the test without changing a thing, but they had to be tested per this standard in order to revive the number. Kind of smart on Cat's part because they made lots of money by eliminating competition for many years and forcing the competition to pay them in order to be competition.

Actually I do not trust the manufacturers that do not certify..... One manufacturer in particular has a bad habit of advertising numbers that are not backed up in the real world.
Another manufacturer that DOES certify always seems to do better than the higher rated competition.
Human nature being what it is.... Some will not admit this to keep from losing a debate.

I held the same view when SAE announced this new certification process long before this debate so it has nothing to do with that. Having worked for various engine and vehicles manufacturers, I just don't put any weight into the process especially since the certified witness is allowed to work for the very same manufacturer who is testing their engine. You can even set the test in a way to get the best numbers with the certification. You state this can happen WITH an SAE witness present.... What can happen when one isn't present? We already know from what has been happening.

I know some fanboys like to tout this certification as if it means something, but it just doesn't mean anything to me knowing what I know about the industry from working in it for so long. I can see others outside the industry who don't really know much about really what goes on behind the scenes might be ignorant enough to hold these certifications in high regard, but I don't based on my past experiences. To each their own.