Revisiting pop-up campers

[diver110]

Some years ago I gave serious thought to getting a truck and pop-up camper. Then life happened, and everything got put on hold. Now, as I approach retirement (at 70), I am revisiting the idea. Currently, I live in Denver. I doubt that I will be going on any lengthy trips, in part because my wife has zip interest. But I am an avid hiker (still can do 14er’s), Often trailheads are in the middle of nowhere and being able to stay close by in the camper would be great. I think I would like a wet bath and shower. Any words of wisdom on the best pop-ups? I know I am not far from Outfitter and Hallmark. Is a gas truck sufficient? Often I will have to drive up fairly steep, rocky, unpaved roads.

[MKish]

Look at Northstar popups as well. They're cheaper, nice enough, and easier to find used.

Their 650SC fits inside a shortbed and has a wetbath (you can always shower outside if you want the space). Don't bring the kids. 🙂

[Kayteg1]

cewillis wrote:


To simplify for the reading impaired: there are very VERY few instances that 1000+ ft-lbs are needed in a light duty truck - and NONE for hauling a TC.
.

Absolutely true, but than how many 4-cylinder diesel pickups can you find on American market?
My 11' tall Sprinter is powered by 2.1l diesel with about 250ft of torque.
Takes most of the grades on overdrive @75mph, while delivering 24 mpg highway - running 2 AC doing that.
When lot of US owners would love to have such engine in pickup, such conversions in USA are not allowed.
Only Jeeps come with smaller German diesels.

[Bert_the_Welder]

Uh-oh..........

[cewillis]

diver110 wrote:


About what year would you say that gas engines “caught up?”

Try reading carefully. I did not say that gas caught up with diesels. I said BOTH have improved significantly in the last 10 years.

To simplify for the reading impaired: there are very VERY few instances that 1000+ ft-lbs are needed in a light duty truck - and NONE for hauling a TC.

Alright know-it-alls, start finding exceptions.

[Kayteg1]

diver110 wrote:


About what year would you say that gas engines “caught up?”

NEVER.
When gasoline engines of last decade can last several hundreds thousands miles, they are still no match to modern diesel when it comes to pulling torque.
But new technology comes with new emission standards and DPF, DEF, fluid intercoolers is stuff even advanced mechanics have hard time to learn about.
Bottom line, if you are not familiar with diesels- getting it now is not good starting point. You will have much easier life with gasoline engine... unless you won't make it to next gas station.
Than new gasoline engines have lot of new technology who breaks as well.
But that's what warranties are for.
Even I am die-hard DIY automotive hobbyist and have been always driving good vehicles for cheap, since I could fix them, when I retired and was planning our dream vacations - I went for new truck with warranty.

[diver110]

cewillis wrote:
Another opinion re: gas vs diesel.
If I were buying new now, it would almost certainly be gas. Both engine types have improved greatly in the last 10 years.
In 2006, there was more difference between them. Diesel: spend more $ and get the power and torque so that one never has to even consider not having enough. And hold its value much better. Gas: significantly cheaper - and you get what you pay for.
In this one persons considered opinion, the 2006-2007 Duramax LBZ diesel + Allison 1000 transmission was The Best Power Train that had ever been available in a light duty truck. Worth the money to me, and it provided 13 years of trouble free service over some of the roughest terrain imaginable. (also worked well for the world famous Grand Whazoo)
That truck was also a jack rabbit. If one were so inclined to stand hard on the brake, spool up the turbo charger and pressurize the transmission, then drop the brake, the result was over 100 feet of twin strips of rubber (and some neck pain for the un-prepared).

About what year would you say that gas engines “caught up?”

[cewillis]

Another opinion re: gas vs diesel.
If I were buying new now, it would almost certainly be gas. Both engine types have improved greatly in the last 10 years.
In 2006, there was more difference between them. Diesel: spend more $ and get the power and torque so that one never has to even consider not having enough. And hold its value much better. Gas: significantly cheaper - and you get what you pay for.
In this one persons considered opinion, the 2006-2007 Duramax LBZ diesel + Allison 1000 transmission was The Best Power Train that had ever been available in a light duty truck. Worth the money to me, and it provided 13 years of trouble free service over some of the roughest terrain imaginable. (also worked well for the world famous Grand Whazoo)
That truck was also a jack rabbit. If one were so inclined to stand hard on the brake, spool up the turbo charger and pressurize the transmission, then drop the brake, the result was over 100 feet of twin strips of rubber (and some neck pain for the un-prepared).

[JimK-NY]

I believe it was the OP who brought up the issue of diesels. Some pop ups are pretty heavy, especially those with a wet bath. A diesel might not be necessary but there are certainly some pluses. The weight and cost are the big negatives. Especially up front the cost of a diesel can be a major consideration. Just remember the resale value for a diesel and the ease of selling are advantages.

[Deb_and_Ed_M]

diver110 wrote:
The Northstars are quite a bit cheaper than say a Hallmark or an Outfitter. I assume there is some kind of price quality relationship, but as my use will be occasional, I may not need the top of the line. Geewizard, the Outfitter website says the Apex is for 3/4 - 1 ton trucks......Assuming I go for a full size truck, .wWould it be worth it to pay the extra money for a diesel?

We use our pop-up TC for sightseeing excursions - we really appreciate that the lower profile will fit into tree-lined drives, rustic camping spots, funky little parking spots, etc. Ours is an older Northstar (no bath), and I feel the quality is good - at over 20 yrs old, ours shows no signs of ever having leaked.

We loaded it on our '18 Silverado 1500, and while the truck didn't squat badly, its overall performance was "lackluster". That was just the excuse hubby Ed needed to buy a diesel 2500.....LOL!! We DO drive some pretty crazy places (steep roads) and the diesel acts like there's nothing back there, plus, IMO, the engine braking is better with a diesel. So there's my 2-cents
Deb

On edit: I should add that we also haul around a 22' car trailer for our business, so the added grunt of the diesel was in part due to that, too. If all we ever hauled was the camper, we'd probably just get a bigger gas motor.

[COboondocker]

We have a Juno 10 and a diesel and live in Colorado. The diesel may be overkill but it is oh so nice going over those mountain passes. If our furnace or water heater ever die I'll be looking into replacing them with a webasto knockoff so we don't need to worry about propane any more. Very happy w/ our Outfitter. We've had a wet bath in both our truck campers and would recommend without hesitation. It's so dry here there's no issues getting it dried out quick.

[diver110]

Not relevant to anything here, but there is an entertaining tax aspects to the larger Hummer. (I am a tax professor. It is a dirty job, but someone has to do it.) There is a limit on how much you can deduct for a business vehicle. The point is to keep people from, say, buying a Porsche 911 and deducting the entire cost in the year of purchase, claiming it was 100% business. But to protect farmers, there is an exclusion for vehicles weighing over 6000 lbs. Guess how much the bigger Hummer weighed? Yup, over 6000 lbs. Hummer dealers used to pitch the tax benefits. So Congress amended the law to say in the first year you can only deduct $25,000 for SUVs. Not sure why they did not just exclude SUVs from the weight exception. Hummer lobby?

[Kayteg1]

The first year Hummers were introduced to private owners the original military diesel was replaced with powerful V8 gasser. It did not take long for some drivers taking them to Baja Rally.
They did not make it between fueling stations.

[JimK-NY]

If I were going with a popup truck camper, I would be trying to go as light weight as possible. The reason would be off road travel. I would do without the diesel and the extra pulling power. That would just add to the overall weight of the rig. For a hard sided camper the equation changes. I am definitely happy with the pulling and Jake brake power of a diesel.

[Geewizard]

Kayteg1 wrote:

JimK-NY wrote:
The specs tell the story. Ram 6.4 gasser puts out 429 ftlbs of torque and the 6.7 diesel puts out 850 ftlbs.

Ford engines put over 1000 of torque from what I heard lately.
Good for pulling 30,000 lb trailers, but I'd rather have 300 torque and 25 mpg for my useage.

+1. Fit the vehicle to the need. More is NOT always better.