Rickson wheel/tire advice

[Ski_Pro_3]

I was hoping to get some advice here on a set of Rickson wheels that have come up on craigslist. A set of 4 for $700.

I'm interested in getting them, but not sure what size tire to get. I have a 2006 Dodge 4x4 2500 diesel 4 door truck, short bed and Lance 855S camper. I plan to tow a larger trailer than the little kayak trailer I usually tow, which is why I'm looking into upsizing the tire/rim capacity.

Rickson site says I can run 245 up to 285/70R19.50

Also, my Dodge stock offset is 1.41" and these rims I'm looking at on craigslist are 1.125". Personally, I don't see how a quarter inch is going to matter. Certainly within the range of fitting inside my wheel wells, but if anyone has any cautions or concerns I should be aware of on that issue too, please let me know.

Thanks

****EDIT****

Currently running Nitto Terra Grappler AT size
LT285/70R17 E 126R

They are listed as 32.76 diameter and 11.5" overall width. Load rated at 3750 pounds each.

[bigfootford]

skipro3 wrote:
I also want to note my experience with Les Schwab so far. They have been just great. I first went in there and got quotes for a few brands. Nothing special on the price but then also no pressure when I expressed a desire for the Michelins. In fact, they recommended Costco for a great price on them.

With a hard quote in writing from Costco, I called Les Schwab and spoke to their commercial tire guy. I told him I had a quote from Costco and asked if he could match them. He told me no on the Michelins, but could on the price but in the Toyo M608Z's. We got to talking tires and he was willing to just take the time to chat. I mean we were on the phone for over 45 minutes. I told him I had to think things over, but would get back to him. When I called back, asking about the 265's over the 245's, first thing he asked was if I had the 2" truck leveling lift on the front. The guy knows his business!! I told him I did and he said they would fit fine and were $9 more each. I asked him if he thought they were worth getting over the 245's. He said the capacity handling for the price was worth it in his opinion and that the overall gearing would probably be the only effect I'd notice between the two sizes.
I called a third time to let him know I was ready to order the tires. We chatted again for at least half an hour about the tires and my truck, what I can expect, etc. He had to order them and that's why it would take a couple days. He didn't need my credit card info or anything. Just ordered on my word that I'd be down to buy them. In the conversation, he looked me up in his computer since I've done business with them in the past. Turns out his parents live within a mile or so from me. (We are quite rural, 5 acre minimum parcels with interspread cattle ranches and BLM land) A real home town atmosphere from that guy and Les Schwab in general.

I mention all this because there's been concern that the old Les Schwab customer service was slipping with the passing old Les. Not that I can tell from our local dealership.

Excellent! This was my experience too!

Fingers crossed for you.

Jim

[Ski_Pro_3]

I also want to note my experience with Les Schwab so far. They have been just great. I first went in there and got quotes for a few brands. Nothing special on the price but then also no pressure when I expressed a desire for the Michelins. In fact, they recommended Costco for a great price on them.

With a hard quote in writing from Costco, I called Les Schwab and spoke to their commercial tire guy. I told him I had a quote from Costco and asked if he could match them. He told me no on the Michelins, but could on the price but in the Toyo M608Z's. We got to talking tires and he was willing to just take the time to chat. I mean we were on the phone for over 45 minutes. I told him I had to think things over, but would get back to him. When I called back, asking about the 265's over the 245's, first thing he asked was if I had the 2" truck leveling lift on the front. The guy knows his business!! I told him I did and he said they would fit fine and were $9 more each. I asked him if he thought they were worth getting over the 245's. He said the capacity handling for the price was worth it in his opinion and that the overall gearing would probably be the only effect I'd notice between the two sizes.
I called a third time to let him know I was ready to order the tires. We chatted again for at least half an hour about the tires and my truck, what I can expect, etc. He had to order them and that's why it would take a couple days. He didn't need my credit card info or anything. Just ordered on my word that I'd be down to buy them. In the conversation, he looked me up in his computer since I've done business with them in the past. Turns out his parents live within a mile or so from me. (We are quite rural, 5 acre minimum parcels with interspread cattle ranches and BLM land) A real home town atmosphere from that guy and Les Schwab in general.

I mention all this because there's been concern that the old Les Schwab customer service was slipping with the passing old Les. Not that I can tell from our local dealership.

[Ski_Pro_3]

Right now, I don't have the new tires on. Les Schwab will get them in on Tuesday, so I'll be heading over there, sans camper, later in the week. Then I'll take some measurements of various heights; such as ground to top of wheel well, ground to middle of axle, ground to top of tire, etc. I have all that both with and without the camper, so with the new wheels and tires, I can compare.

One thing I'm concerned about is that my truck, with the Nittos I have on now, handles great. I can drive my truck with the camper on twisty mountain roads faster than my wife can keep up in her Subaru. The quicker I take corners, the better it feels to be tracking. I attribute that to the Hellwig Big Wig sway bar and air bags mostly. I've noticed the body roll more or less depending on the air in the bags. I've adjusted so there is slightly more air in the right side bag than the left. Probably due to the crown of the road. But for a perfect feel and ride, I run 38psi in the right rear air bag and 30psi in the left. With no air in the bags, there is noticeable body sway.

Just to recap; I'm changing out my tires and wheels for the safety margin that is gained. I have tires rated at 3750 pounds of load each, totaling 7500 pounds on a rear axle that measured at 7200 pounds with the trailer on there.
The Toyo's I'm getting soon will have a capacity of 5510 pounds each, for a total of 11,020 pounds of capacity. The Nittos are about 4% of max load, the Toyos will be about 34% of max load. The smaller Toyo's, the 245's, would be within 20% of the max load. A 20% margin is better than the 4% I have now for sure, but for the price difference, I'm willing to experiment with the slightly larger 265's.

So stay tuned; I'll be reporting on my experience with these tires as I get 'em mounted up and tested. Oh, one thing I noticed on my current Nitto's; they took some time to break in. I mean a lot of time! They were very squirrelly for the first 3,000 miles. If I made an abrupt lane change, the rear would feel like a time lag to the front. Like how a boat feels when it's not on plane in the water and making a turn. Not a good feel! If I hadn't experience with my original tires, I would have thought it was frame flex. I'll see how these new tires feel unloaded new, then loaded new and also give them time to break in.

And don't worry, b, no strings strummed that struck a cord. Of course I took your concerns seriously, but needed a little clarification on what tippy referenced.

My hope is that the stiffer sidewall will outweigh any tippiness feeling and any sidwall roll that the E load tires I have now. There's only one way to tell!!

[bka0721]

skipro3 wrote:

bka0721 wrote:
Skipro3. All fine until you put a load on the truck. How tippy are these extra inches going to become?
b

1/2" taller truck due to taller tires will make my truck tippy?

Hi Skipro3. Sorry if I struck a cord here. But it was a simple question of asking if you experienced a different feel while driving your truck and camper with this change. Many are reading this thread so there is a lot to learn from our changes.

With being a trained high speed driver, and driving instructor, it has been easy for me to determine something as small a tire pressure change. Or when I have left too much air in my Air Bags. When I changed my 225 to 245, my change in height was 1" for the tire. Then when I measured my overall height of my truck, after the tire swap, my height changed almost 3”. How did this happen with, as you said; “1/2” change? Easy. The extra performance of the increase of tire changed my “big picture” by minimizing the sidewall flex and deflection in the springs, coils and shocks. So the truck and camper just stood taller. So of it was just because of the change of angle in the way the truck set. So when one does not take in the overall impact of simple changes, they are missing out in how this translates to overall handling of a vehicle. Whether in negotiating corners and curves. Braking events and acceleration with resulting driving control.

Skipro3, with your admitted changes of suspension, 2” front lift kit and now tire size change, I was just interested if you had noticed any change in the handling of your truck, with your camper loaded. As in more from center roll; Tippy. With you being more of an experienced driver here, than many, it was my interest in any perception of driving change, you might have noticed. Again, sorry if I struck a cord.

b

[Ski_Pro_3]

bka0721 wrote:
Skipro3. All fine until you put a load on the truck. How tippy are these extra inches going to become?

b

1/2" taller truck due to taller tires will make my truck tippy?

[dadwolf2]

BigToe wrote:

skipro3 wrote:
How were you able to mount the tires yourself? You have some sort of tire mounting machine at home?

No machine. In the old days tires were mounted on wheels by hand, before machines were invented to mount tires on wheels.

I use two tire irons, a hunk of brass, some bead lubricant, and a piece of carpet to protect the wheel finish. Sometimes I cheat and use the rear hitch on my truck and a block of wood to help keep the tire seated as I pop the last bit of bead into place.

Keep in mind these are 19.5" tires. As "half size" tires and rim assemblies, the bead taper is shallower, at 15 degrees, then the bead taper of a "whole size" tire and rim like 16", 17", 18" or 20" tires and rims which have a much steeper 5 degree bead taper.

Big truck and bus tires, like 22.5" and 24.5" tires are routinely mounted by hand in the field. These all have 15 degree bead tapers. This is one reason why half size rims are not good if you plan on "airing down" significantly for beach and dune driving. But for over the road driving they are just fine.

I would not be able to hand mount whole size tire and rims by hand, but half size 19.5" tires and rims are doable, because of the shallower bead taper.

Very interesting, I would've thought the stiffer steel belted sidewall of 19.5's would've made it a real bear even with the half size rim taper.

[bka0721]

Skipro3. All fine until you put a load on the truck. How tippy are these extra inches going to become?

b

[Ski_Pro_3]

After all my haggling and checking, Costco can sell me 4 of the Michelin XDS2 245/70R19.5 for $1675 but can't mount them. That'll cost me about $100 to $150 more, so $1775 total.

Les Schwab will sell me a set of Toyo M608Z 245/70R19.5 for $1775 and that includes the mounting and balancing.

The Toyo is 'only' rated at 4540 pounds max per tire. However, for $9 a tire more, I can get the 265's which are rated at 5510 pounds max per tire. My wheels will be fine for either, but actually more in the middle of the range with the 265's over the 245's.

Now, I know the 265's are taller; an inch bigger diameter so a ride of 1/2" taller. I have a 2" leveling kit on the front of the truck and have run that diameter tire in a 315/70R17 BFGoodrich T/A All Terrain.

That works out to 3.6% less revs per mile for the 265's over the 245's. I don't think that's a problem with my drivetrain.
So, for just a hair over $1800 I'm going with the 265/70R19.5 Toyo M608Z from Les Schwab.

[BigToe]

skipro3 wrote:
How were you able to mount the tires yourself? You have some sort of tire mounting machine at home?

No machine. In the old days tires were mounted on wheels by hand, before machines were invented to mount tires on wheels.

I use two tire irons, a hunk of brass, some bead lubricant, and a piece of carpet to protect the wheel finish. Sometimes I cheat and use the rear hitch on my truck and a block of wood to help keep the tire seated as I pop the last bit of bead into place.

Keep in mind these are 19.5" tires. As "half size" tires and rim assemblies, the bead taper is shallower, at 15 degrees, then the bead taper of a "whole size" tire and rim like 16", 17", 18" or 20" tires and rims which have a much steeper 5 degree bead taper.

Big truck and bus tires, like 22.5" and 24.5" tires are routinely mounted by hand in the field. These all have 15 degree bead tapers. This is one reason why half size rims are not good if you plan on "airing down" significantly for beach and dune driving. But for over the road driving they are just fine.

I would not be able to hand mount whole size tire and rims by hand, but half size 19.5" tires and rims are doable, because of the shallower bead taper.

[Ski_Pro_3]

How were you able to mount the tires yourself? You have some sort of tire mounting machine at home?

[BigToe]

The concern should not be whether or not Centramatics work with any particular size or brand of tire. The concern should be whether or not Centramatics work with the shape/offset of your wheels.

[Ski_Pro_3]

Good to know the Centramatics work with the 19.5" Michelin XDS2 tires and that you recommend them.


I've found them as cheap as $179 incl. shipping for a set of 4.

[BigToe]

I bought the Michelin XDS2 tires for wet weather traction. These tires each have 400 tread blocks and 1,000 factory cut sipes. The extra thickness in the sidewalls is supplemented by sacrificial rub ribs to afford protection from scraping the sidewalls against concrete curbs.

I also got the tires from Costco. And no, Costco wouldn't mount them for me. But I didn't care. I mounted them myself. I just wanted Costco's lower price, which was around $375 each at the time, if I recall correctly. This was about 3 or 4 years ago, so $403 seems like a normal price creep.

The tires had to be special ordered of course. I found that mine were Made in France. I guess the XDS2 was Michelin's "Halo" tire at the time, manufactured at Michelin's headquarters, so to speak.

Match mounting? I aligned the painted red dot on the tires that indicates the maximum radial force variation with the stamp mark on the wheels that indicates the point of minimum radial run out as manufactured. Not all wheels have this stamped mark. My wheels not only had the stamped mark, but also had a neon green sticker over the stamped mark. Over time, the label wears off and washes away, which is why Accuride stamps the point of minimum radial runout to leave an indelible mark that outlasts the sticker. This is how new tire and wheel assemblies are match mounted in production.

If my wheels didn't have the stamp mark, then I would align the yellow dot on the tire, which indicates the tire's lightest point, with the valve stem hole on the wheel, which when fitted with a clamp in metal valve stem (highly recommended over the snap in style) is the heaviest point of the wheel on balance. That would be the weight method of match mounting... not as optimal as the red dot to the wheel mark, but it is a start.

Spin balancing? Road-Force testing with a Hunter 9700? Ha! People are kidding themselves. As already mentioned earlier in the thread, machine balancing a tire and wheel assembly is all about the FIT UP ADAPTER to the machine. I have taken truck tire and wheel assemblies to reputable shops like Les Schwab and Firestone, calling ahead of time first to make sure they had both a Hunter 9700 and a technician on hand who knew how to use it. I've gone in, and paid for one tire and wheel assembly to be balanced... whatever price they wanted, with only one catch: That they remove the tire from the machine after they "road force" balanced it, and remount the tire to the same machine to prove that it was indeed balanced.

NO ONE could do it. Oh sure, they could stop the tire from spinning, and restart the machine again and it would show 0.0 balance. But restarting a spin is quite different from taking the tire and wheel assembly off of the machine, and putting it back on the machine. Every time the technician unchucked and rechucked the tire and wheel assembly back to the machine, the balance was not only different, it was WAY, WAY, WAY, WAAAAAY different.

Why? What is being "balanced" so carefully is the relationship of the tire and wheel assembly to the spindle of the machine. Well who cares about that? I want the tire and wheel assembly to be balanced to the spindle of my truck. A huge part of the problem lies in the various centering adapters that a shop carries to use on the machine. THERE IS NO ACCURATE CONICAL ONE SIZE FITS ALL. PERIOD. My vehicle manufacture (Ford, forgive me) even issued several technical service bulletins on this issue, instructing shops to obtain specific adapters for the hubcentric wheels that Ford fits their trucks with. Without precise centering of the tire and wheel assembly on the balancing machine, the so called balance doesn't mean jack diddly squat, Road Force or not.

So how do I balance my self mounted tire and wheel assemblies on my truck's spindles? Dynamically. I use Centramatics, which balance the entire rotating assembly, including my hub, brake rotor, and any mud or rocks that temporarily get stuck in the meaty treadblocks of the XDS2 tires. No beads beating up the insides of the tire casing either, since Centramatics oil suspended BB's are encapsulated into their own tube that is circumferentially wrapped around a thin flat plate disk that is captured between the hub and wheel.

I kept with the smaller tire (stock) tire size, 225's instead of 245's, in order to not exacerbate additional loads on the wheel bearings and steering gear. I also wanted to maintain original factory gearing and low end grunt, as well as lower center of gravity and better fuel economy.

Your mileage may vary, but that is my experience with the Michelin XDS2, Costco, mounting, and balancing.

[bigfootford]

skipro3 wrote:
Oh, and I figured out that my rear step won't go down with the extension bar in place too! Just like yours. So I ordered a new Torklift 3 step Glow Step. The new and improved 8" wide step, not the puny 6" wide. Ordered from Tweety's. The price was same as Amazon's, but Amazon now charges sales tax where Tweety's doesn't.

Yep that Glowstep 8 in and 20 in wide is wonderful.... Glows nice too at night!

Make sure that you check the date code on those tires from Costco. When I ordered a set of 16's for my one of the tires was over a year old... I refused the tire.... That along with the mounting problem was enough for me to give up on Costco.

Jim

[Ski_Pro_3]

Oh, and I figured out that my rear step won't go down with the extension bar in place too! Just like yours. So I ordered a new Torklift 3 step Glow Step. The new and improved 8" wide step, not the puny 6" wide. Ordered from Tweety's. The price was same as Amazon's, but Amazon now charges sales tax where Tweety's doesn't.