Should I switch to diesel?

[wrvond]

I'm not trying to start another gas vs. diesel thread, but need some real world anecdotal input.
We just completed a 1000 mile round trip from West Virginia, through the mountains, to Murrells Inlet, SC, and back, towing our new TT.
My 5.4 liter F150 4x4 pulled the Coachmen Catalina 253RK pretty well.
I was surprised that I was able to average about 50mph uphill (I expected I might have to push the rig up), but was very disappointed that I only got about 8mpg on average.
At 8mpg, I won't be able to afford to make many four day weekend trips of any kind of distance, I'm afraid.
So, I'm thinking of moving up to an F250 diesel, or similar.
Questions:
Is diesel really going to be enough of an improvement in mpg to justify the move?
Is diesel torque/towing going to be a quantum improvement?
What size engine should I be looking at? Is a 6L diesel going to "whup" the 5.7L gasser, or do I need something bigger than that?
Finances dictate a unit in the 8 to 10 year old range, do these pre-date DEF and other emissions requirements?
Are there any particular engines/years I should be wary of?
Are there any particular engines/years/models that are most desireable?
I'm sure none of these questions are new to you guys that have made the transition, and I look forward to reading your thoughts and experiences.
Thanks.

[oughtsix]

My 2006 Duramax gets about 13mpg Towing my Coachman Captiva 265EX (Via the lie-o-meter, I choose to remain blissfully ignorant of my real mpg's).

I love the excuse that people use better gas mileage to buy a new vehicle. Even the most creative accountants will have a tough time penciling that out! A buddy at work just traded his paid off 2001 Durango for a 2013 Subaru Legacy... because his gasoline bill was killing him and what he saves in gas will pay for his new car payment.... right. I just smiled and agreed.

If you want to buy a new vehicle then buy a new vehicle. Don't try to claim that you are doing it to "SAVE MONEY" though. That is pretty much always a ridiculous claim!

[johndeerefarmer]

My '13 F250 6.7L with 2wd, 3.31 rear and Supercab got 11 mpg towing two Polaris RZR's on my 24' bumper pull tandem axle equipment trailer. My '13 Ecoboost gets 8 mpg for the same load.
The F250 was configured for the maximum fuel economy while my ecoboost is a King Ranch with the 6.5' bed, 4x4 and loaded with every option available.

I was not impressed with the towing fuel economy on my Powerstroke. I expected 14-15 mpg not 11. The Powerstroke got better unloaded fuel economy by about 3-4 mpg. In the city they are about the same. I run premium in the ecoboost so that makes diesel and gas about the same but with the diesel option costing $9000 I will not buy another one unless the things I tow get so heavy that I have too.

[waynec1957]

I went from a 2006 ½ Silverado CC short bed with a 5.3l to a 2013 ¾ ton Silverado CC standard bed with the Duramax 6.6l last November. I read a lot of different forums and talked to as many guys driving ¾ ton diesels (and gassers) as I could for about a year.

I came to the conclusion early on that unless someone pulls a lot, meaning at least 50-60,000 miles or more a year, it’s hard to justify a diesel based on economics. There’s the $8k or so upfront cost of the diesel to consider, and from what I saw you’re going to pay that whether you buy new or used.

I bought mine new with a 10 year extended warranty and plan to keep the truck until one of us turns to dust, so whatever repairs that might come up I’ll spread that cost over a longer period of time.

I do however, so far, think some of the other operating costs are often overstated in the gas vs. diesel debate, at least relative to how much truck you get with a ¾ ton diesel. I’ve kept track and over the past 6 months, doing the same kind of driving, I’ve spent just under $60 per month more for fuel with the Duramax than I did on my old truck. The old truck got 23-24 mpg on the highway and 16-18 in town. The Dmax is getting a solid 19 on the highway and 14 in town empty. I’ve got 5,200 miles on the truck so I’m expecting the mileage will get a little better as the miles rack up.

My fuel filter, right now, is at 90%, I just put 3.5 gal of DEF in the truck last week at $36 and I’m almost due for an oil change (probably this week) which will run $75. I won’t have to pay that because the salesman told me the truck had free oil changes for two years (and the other half bought her car from the same guy at the same time I bought my truck). But even at that, if I did pay for it that’s $111. In the same time frame I would have had one oil change and close to another on my old truck at $40 a pop. So there’s not that much difference.

As far as towing, there’s no comparison between the 5.3l and the 6.6l Dmax. That’s what you pay for. My camper is just under 6,000 lbs. loaded and the 5.3l did a respectable job but I always knew it was back there. I’ve had it out and towed about 100 miles with the Dmax and it’s just a world of difference. Very soon we’re going to a camper that’s 8,500 lbs. dry so that’s when the Dmax will really earn its keep.

We’re planning a trip through the Kentucky and the Smokies first of next month so I’m anxious to see how this truck does with this camper.

[goducks10]

You still change the oil 2x a year with either gas or diesel. Ram says 6 months or 15,000. No truck manufacture goes beyond 6 months that I'm aware of.
I change 3x a year in my 12 Ram. $52.00 a pop DIY. If some of the emission stuff ever fell off then I could get by with oil changes 2x a year as I only drive 10,000 miles a year.

[JIMNLIN]

The '03 to '07 5.9 HPCR Cummins has a 7500/15000 miles oil change schedule.

My '03 2500 Dodge/Cummins 305/555 HO with the NV5600 3.73 axle averages 12-12.5 mpg pulling my 11xxx lb 5er. Highway when empty will average 22-22.5 mpgs, all Pencil figures.
This truck does other duties pulling various size trailers up to 16k lbs so a grocery getter smallblock gasser won't work for me.

The really great part of owning this Cummins for me is money I've saved in fuel costs alone plus much less maintenance costs than any comparable gasser (8.1/v-10 or any BB gasser). My break even for the 3400 dollar Cummins option came at 44-45k miles so at 245k miles its been one great truck.
Other diesel owners have their numbers so one size don't fit all here.

And of course claims from some gas owners how all diesels are so much costlier to operate is always amusing.

The OP's truck pulls a small trailer and no other towing duties and has no other towing issues with his smallblock truck so IMO stick with it.

[Targa]

The post DPF and pre DEF diesels couldn't go 15,000 between oil changes. My 09' 6.7 would rise 1/2 an inch on the dipstick by the time I changed my oil at 5,000 miles due to fuel dilution. Good to hear the new ones can go 15,000.

[blofgren]

wintersun wrote:
Take an hour and do the math. Compare 8 MPG with gas versus 11 MPG with a diesel at the current prices for diesel. Add in to the cost for the diesel the extra $9,000 for the purchase price and having to pay twice as much for an oil change and having to do it twice as often. See how many miles it takes to recover the $9,000.

Want to get great fuel economy buy a Mercedes diesel powered Roadtrek B class motorhome and you will get 25 MPG real world fuel economy. It takes fuel to produce the power to move a RV down the road and up hills and the greater the weight of the RV the more power, i.e. fuel it is going to take.

The advantage of diesel is greater torque when towing up a grade and better engine braking going downhill. But for that you pay a steep price.

Hi, I'm not sure what diesel engine that you are referring to that requires an oil change twice as often as gas, but my 2013 6.7L Cummins has a 15,000 mile service interval which is much better than any tow vehicle gas engine that I am aware of. I also do my own oil changes and estimate I will be able to easily do an oil change on this truck for approximately $60, so not too bad.

The other factor is that the diesel truck will have much higher resale value than the gas truck. I have seen used gas trucks sit on lots in this area for many months at a time while clean diesel trucks with a known good reliability record sell in days if not hours for top dollar.

[zogg]

Rhagfo......agreed, the older Fords are probably the absolute worst example. I know little about the duramax. But I do know that if I were to buy a diesel it would be a cummins. I only mentioned ford because that is what the OP mentioned.

[CKNSLS]

If you do the math and add in sales tax for the new rig-it probably just doesn't pencil out. Then, if you buy a used rig and something goes wrong it MAY BE major bucks.

[wintersun]

Take an hour and do the math. Compare 8 MPG with gas versus 11 MPG with a diesel at the current prices for diesel. Add in to the cost for the diesel the extra $9,000 for the purchase price and having to pay twice as much for an oil change and having to do it twice as often. See how many miles it takes to recover the $9,000.

Want to get great fuel economy buy a Mercedes diesel powered Roadtrek B class motorhome and you will get 25 MPG real world fuel economy. It takes fuel to produce the power to move a RV down the road and up hills and the greater the weight of the RV the more power, i.e. fuel it is going to take.

The advantage of diesel is greater torque when towing up a grade and better engine braking going downhill. But for that you pay a steep price.

[The_Texan]

rhagfo wrote:


If you look at the repair cost for both DuraMax and Cummins they are much lower. Diesel is only 8 cents more than regular here in Oregon.

If you go from 8 mpg to 12 mpg that is 50% better mileage at 3.73 for reg, and $3.81 for diesel the difference is 8 cents 2% difference in cost!

I will not say that buying and using a diesel truck will be less costly in the long run, but the cost difference is far less that most gas lovers are led to believe!!

I bought used, 234,000 miles used! now at 271,000 and still pulling an 11,000# fiver STRONG, 11 to 12 mpg pulling in hills, 12 to 14 city driving, and 20 mph empty on the open road.

Drive to your east, across the ID state line and the difference between diesel and gas is 40¢± per gallon, so that blows your 2% out of the water. We travel many western states and OR has the best diesel price of any western state, right now. Most are at least 40¢ difference and I have seen 60¢ difference in the last month.

[rhagfo]

zogg wrote:
There is absolutely no doubt that a diesel makes for a better towing experience, even for a lighter trailer....they just work super!!!

My buddy and I had to got to Arizona to tow his 13,000# 5th wheel back to Illinois. His F250 6.0 diesel was phenomenal towing the unit, and got a solid 11.5 mpg for the entire 1500 miles.

I had a Cummins a few years ago and loved the towing capability.

However....there is a lot of extra cost to a diesel. My buddy's F250 had to be head studded at 80,000 miles, and needed new injectors....cost was almost $8000.
A neighbor had his turbos go bad on his 6.4 L Ford diesel....almost $10,000 with all of the associated repairs, and he was just out of warranty when it happened, so fairly low miles.

A new diesel truck will cost $8-$10k more for the engine....and fuel seemed to be about $.60/gallon higher most places we went. Used diesels have the potential of super high cost repairs.

If I was on the road all the time, I would certainly go for another diesel. BUT, I tow 5-6 short trips a year, and maybe one long trip over 1000 miles. I get 7.5 to 9 mpg, and I struggle a little up some of the steep hills, but I cannot justify the cost and maintenance of a diesel....and the DEF fluid (just one more thing to take care of).

My nephew has a super cool Cummins 4x4 with a big lift kit and has never towed a thing....he just loves diesels!! Not at issue.

Some folks LOVE them, some folks NEED them, and some folks have to decide if the hassle and expense is worth the cost. I personally do not have a need for a diesel, don't want to spend the money to own one, and don't was to pay extra for the fuel costs.

Good luck whatever you decide.

First to the OP!
You really don't need a diesel to pull that trailer, if you want to get a newer truck buy a F150 EcoBoost, with a Max tow, AND Max Payload if you can find one. It will tow that TT with ease.

To Zogg, you can't use the two worst diesels ever pandered on the TV public as general cost for repairs.

The Ford 6.0 and 6.4 were the least reliable diesels engines ever put in a pickup truck. I don't know of a 6.0 owner that hasn't had a $4,000 to $15,000 repair bill. I don't believe that are all bad, but sure seems that way.

If you look at the repair cost for both DuraMax and Cummins they are much lower. Diesel is only 8 cents more than regular here in Oregon.

If you go from 8 mpg to 12 mpg that is 50% better mileage at 3.73 for reg, and $3.81 for diesel the difference is 8 cents 2% difference in cost!

I will not say that buying and using a diesel truck will be less costly in the long run, but the cost difference is far less that most gas lovers are led to believe!!

I bought used, 234,000 miles used! now at 271,000 and still pulling an 11,000# fiver STRONG, 11 to 12 mpg pulling in hills, 12 to 14 city driving, and 20 mph empty on the open road.

[ng2951]

Fuel prices are chaotic and will stay so for quite a while. There is an effort to drive them up even further. Many of refineries are setting themselves up to better handle diesel and more diesel pumps are becoming available.

3/4 ton gasser would do a good job for you. 3/4 tons are pretty good, depending on model, to pull a 10K trailer.

Gasser or diesel, 3/4 tons are beefy. Great brakes, better tranmissions, 4WD sometimes. The mechanic says they are real trucks and have long lives too.

If you are going to stay under 10K for your trailers, a gasser can probably do well for you. The more time you are going to stay around 10K or more diesel is a better way to go. If you are planning to take on the mountains out west the turbocharged diesels are really great.

The diesels to avoid were the transition years on emission systems. That varied from manufacturer to manufacturer. If you buy outside of that range reliability was much better. Some of Dodge's problems were that the owners did not drive the trucks hard enough and long enough.

I would also agree if you are driving light, not far, or not high a gasser is probably the best way to go. The cost differential is moderate and you may not miss the performance.

[zogg]

There is absolutely no doubt that a diesel makes for a better towing experience, even for a lighter trailer....they just work super!!!

My buddy and I had to got to Arizona to tow his 13,000# 5th wheel back to Illinois. His F250 6.0 diesel was phenomenal towing the unit, and got a solid 11.5 mpg for the entire 1500 miles.

I had a Cummins a few years ago and loved the towing capability.

However....there is a lot of extra cost to a diesel. My buddy's F250 had to be head studded at 80,000 miles, and needed new injectors....cost was almost $8000.
A neighbor had his turbos go bad on his 6.4 L Ford diesel....almost $10,000 with all of the associated repairs, and he was just out of warranty when it happened, so fairly low miles.

A new diesel truck will cost $8-$10k more for the engine....and fuel seemed to be about $.60/gallon higher most places we went. Used diesels have the potential of super high cost repairs.

If I was on the road all the time, I would certainly go for another diesel. BUT, I tow 5-6 short trips a year, and maybe one long trip over 1000 miles. I get 7.5 to 9 mpg, and I struggle a little up some of the steep hills, but I cannot justify the cost and maintenance of a diesel....and the DEF fluid (just one more thing to take care of).

My nephew has a super cool Cummins 4x4 with a big lift kit and has never towed a thing....he just loves diesels!! Not at issue.

Some folks LOVE them, some folks NEED them, and some folks have to decide if the hassle and expense is worth the cost. I personally do not have a need for a diesel, don't want to spend the money to own one, and don't was to pay extra for the fuel costs.

Good luck whatever you decide.

[kaydeejay]

You don't need a diesel for that size trailer and you could never justify the extra expense in order to save 4-5mpgs.
BUT, if you want to run with cruise control on at 60-65mph in Overdrive and never have the truck break a sweat, THEN you need to put a value on the smile on your face!
FWIW my low profile fiver runs 9000-9500# and I get 12.5 to 13mpgs on a typical run. Truck gets 19-20 unloaded.