Sold my old rig and starting over -- Need advice!

[itsjustjer]

We had a 2003 Suburban 1500 and a 2006 Fleetwood Niagara Highwall Popup for a couple years. I just recently sold both of them. The popup wasn't enough space because we seemed to always have the kids' cousins come along with us. We got rid of the Suburban because it kept giving us problem after problem.

My wife and I have 3 young kids and currently trying for our 4th and final. We live in Indiana and most of the time we're going to be taking weekend trips close to home, about 200-300 miles at most. However, we are really interested in starting a yearly tradition of taking the camper to Disney World's Fort Wilderness which is about 1000 miles away and takes us through the Smoky Mountains.

My wife stays home with the kids and she drives a minivan. Right now I'm driving an old Pontiac Grand Am to and from work.

Now that you're familiar with our situation, I need some help as I've just been going back and forth and it's driving me insane!

I just really need someone I can talk this out with to make the best decision that meets our needs.

I could trade the minivan for a Suburban 2500 and then we could use our everyday family vehicle as our tow vehicle. It's nice because we'd have plenty of room for the kids and even the cousins (right now we're no where near this, but I'm using 1000 lbs as the weight of occupants because kids grow).

The problem is the terrible gas mileage compared to the minivan. This part is kind of hard to calculate or anticipate. There are times when my wife doesn't leave the house all day, so the van doesn't get driven. Then there are times when we take a 2 hour drive to the grandparent's house.

Also something I've been considering is towing must be harder on certain parts of the vehicle, right? Does towing significantly shorten the life of the vehicle? Are we going to experience issues much sooner than if we weren't using it to tow?

The reason for the 2500 would be so we could have a bigger camper. If we go this route and just suck it up regarding the increase gas consumption, is it beyond the realm of possibility to find a camper with a layout that gives us a "kids room" quad bunk type of setup that we could safely tow?

The other option I've been considering is to leave the minivan alone. I'd sell the old Grand Am and just buy a truck that seats 6. My oldest is a lot older than her siblings, but still technically too young to "safely" ride in the front seat at 9 years old, so I'm not even sure if this is a viable option. It would not really be a comfortable ride, but it would definitely open up the possibility of bigger campers and even fifth wheels. It would be my daily driver, so again gas would suck, but there's not really anyway around it. I just don't really have any need for a truck other than towing the camper so it feels a little frivolous to make that purchase.

I've also kicked around the idea of a motorhome, but it's pretty rare for them to have as much sleeping capacity as a travel trailer or fifth wheel, so I haven't really explored that option too much.

Sorry for the rambling, but I'm just kind of burning myself out thinking about this. I want to come up with a good plan that makes the most sense.

[itsjustjer]

itsjustjer wrote:

blt2ski wrote:
How is a burb better than a crew cab? Other than it has a seat in the very back? if you have 4 5'8" or taller teens as I have, that back seat is pretty useless. Frankly, you are better off with a crew cab than a burb. At least you can find newer ones!
If you really want the room, the ONLY real option is a van. If you want 4wd, that will be a custom, trying to find a used custom. or just making sure you have a good locking/posi rear end.
With this in mind, I have some 100k+ miles with crew cabs with my 4 kids. Would not change a thing! We also used a 1 ton, as we usually had some 3000 lbs loaded into the truck, including 800 lbs for hitch weight, 1300 lbs of people, rack on bed, sometimes with a canoe. 2 alaska malamute dogs and crates - 300 lbs......generator in bed for winter ski trips......

Marty

The crew cab would be great, but I don’t have any kids that are big enough to safely sit in the front seat. The cost of the 1 ton vans versus the Suburban 2500s is also worth mentioning. A 2012 Suburban 2500 can be found for $25k easily. A 2012 Chevy 3500 Express with similar miles is way over $30k from what I’m seeing.

[blt2ski]

How is a burb better than a crew cab? Other than it has a seat in the very back? if you have 4 5'8" or taller teens as I have, that back seat is pretty useless. Frankly, you are better off with a crew cab than a burb. At least you can find newer ones!
If you really want the room, the ONLY real option is a van. If you want 4wd, that will be a custom, trying to find a used custom. or just making sure you have a good locking/posi rear end.
With this in mind, I have some 100k+ miles with crew cabs with my 4 kids. Would not change a thing! We also used a 1 ton, as we usually had some 3000 lbs loaded into the truck, including 800 lbs for hitch weight, 1300 lbs of people, rack on bed, sometimes with a canoe. 2 alaska malamute dogs and crates - 300 lbs......generator in bed for winter ski trips......

Marty

[fx2tom]

itsjustjer wrote:
Since I posted this yesterday I’ve learned about these Passport 3290BH travel trailers and they’ve got me really excited! Envisioning how we would use it and the people we’d need beds for, this seems like an excellent option. The weight is incredible at 8,000 GVWR. Based on everything I listed previously regarding the Suburban 2500, this combination would be a comfortable towing experience, wouldn’t it?

If so, I think what we’d do is just finance the Suburban and keep the van for my wife. Then I’d need to decide what to do with my old Grand Am. It’s worth like 1500-2000, so it really won’t do much to put a dent in the cost of the Suburban. I could keep it and drive it to and from work for the gas savings. Or sell it and enjoy the 1500-2000 dollars in gas money when the Suburban 2500 becomes my commuter.

IMO I would keep the Grand Am as a commuter.

[VernDiesel]

SIL has relatively small bunk that has 4 bunk beds, a queen, a hide a bed, & dinette that can convert into a bed. Sleeps 8 to 10 in a pinch. Fully loaded with water to boon dock it was 8k. Wide axle WDH set up by CAT scale it towed well behind my half ton pick up.

http://www.coachmenrv.com/travel-trailers/freedom-express-liberty-edition/292BHDS/225

You could tow this comfortably AND passengers with a full size window van. 3500 reliable 6.0 (341 HP 373 TQ) with best gearing or the little diesel when tuned. (220 HP 440 TQ) the little diesel would move it easier but the gas would be faster bigger difference would be the lil diesel would provide dramatically better mileage.

https://www.chevrolet.com/commercial/express-passenger-van/build-and-price/color

[itsjustjer]

Since I posted this yesterday I’ve learned about these Passport 3290BH travel trailers and they’ve got me really excited! Envisioning how we would use it and the people we’d need beds for, this seems like an excellent option. The weight is incredible at 8,000 GVWR. Based on everything I listed previously regarding the Suburban 2500, this combination would be a comfortable towing experience, wouldn’t it?

If so, I think what we’d do is just finance the Suburban and keep the van for my wife. Then I’d need to decide what to do with my old Grand Am. It’s worth like 1500-2000, so it really won’t do much to put a dent in the cost of the Suburban. I could keep it and drive it to and from work for the gas savings. Or sell it and enjoy the 1500-2000 dollars in gas money when the Suburban 2500 becomes my commuter.

[Grit_dog]

OP, yes the 2500sub you posted specs on would be a very good vehicle for a 4ton TT.
Now look up the same specs on a say, new Expediton or 6.2 Sub or Tahoe/Yukon.
You can still stay within the numbers for hitch weight with weight distribution with a similar size trailer.
That was the original premise that wdhs were created for. But they’ve now gotten categorized as a necessity regardless of tongue weight or payload. RV industry is good at selling things to people! Lol.
Now look at the tow ratings, and mechanical aspects of a new Expediton and you’ll see that aside from a slightly lower rawr (9.75 Ford axle is rated 4800lb and real world is a 5000 lb axle all day long), the rest of the vehicle, engine power, transmission, chassis/brakes is all = to or better than a GMT900.
Plus a 6.2 GM or Ecoboost will absolutely run an older 6.0 6 speed in power.

If your buying a 5-10year old suv, 2500 Sub is a good choice. If you’re considering new then a new Expy is an all around equally or more capable rig.

[ktosv]

Yes, that Suburban would in theory be able to tow a 7400# loaded trailer if at its 8600# limit. Something like the Keystone Passport 2910 like my family used to have would work. We used to camp in it as a family of 7.

If you can’t find a Suburban a full size van (2500/3500) would be the next best option in my opinion. Some like the Fords, I personally liked the Chevy Express. Look for a 2010 or newer to get the 6 speed transmission and additional safety features. I think around 2013-2014 they started offering backup cameras. With the GM van you could put an aftermarket hitch and not have to worry what your tongue weight is.

Best of luck with your search.

[Durb]

Personally, I would stick with a tent trailer, this is what we had during our young kids years and felt it worked well for us. A king on each end and a table bed will open up many more sleeping options than a hard sided TT. Our kids were outside almost all the time so we used the trailer pretty much for sleeping. The relative lighter weight of a tent trailer will give you far greater number of options relative to a tow vehicle; maybe a diesel Sprinter van, space plus fuel economy.

[2Rad4U]

IMO, with the kids, the 2500 Suburban would be the way to go.

The Suburban gets everyone to your destination safely and comfortably.

Without kids I'd recommend a 2500 truck.

BTW, I did a Disney trip in 2005 with the wife and 2 kids and we pulled our camper with a 1999 2500 Suburban! That beast had the 454 engine.

Was an easy ride for all.

[itsjustjer]

Thank you all so much for weighing in. Doing the caravan isn't something that crossed my mind. It certainly might be an option for the shorter trips. I could leave early to set up camp and then they would all come out when it's done. On the flip side, riding 6 in a crew cab is bearable for shorter trips as well.

I looked a little closer at the Expedition Max (and EL). This is a half-ton, correct? It just feels scary to me to pull something substantial with a half-ton.

I found a 2012 Suburban 2500 (VIN: 1GNWKLEG0CR243634). I'm sure this isn't the most reliable way, but I put that VIN into a VIN decoder on the chevy forums website and it had pretty impressive stats (minus the mpg)

• Gross Axle Wt Rating - Front 4180 lbs 4180.0 min 4180.0 max
  
• Gross Axle Wt Rating - Rear 5500 lbs 5500.0 min 5500.0 max
  
• Curb Weight - Front 3338 lbs 3338.0 min 3338.0 max
  
• Curb Weight - Rear 3081 lbs 3081.0 min 3081.0 max
  
• Gross Vehicle Weight Rating Cap 8600 lbs 8600.0 min 8600.0 max
  
• Fuel Economy Est-Combined 12 MPG 12.0 min 12.0 max
  
• EPA Fuel Economy Est - City 10 MPG 10.0 min 10.0 max
  
• EPA Fuel Economy Est - Hwy 15 MPG 15.0 min 15.0 max
  
• Gross Combined Wt Rating 16,000 lbs
  
• Dead Weight Hitch - Max Trailer Wt. 5000 lbs 5000.0 min 5000.0 max
  
• Dead Weight Hitch - Max Tongue Wt. 500 lbs 500.0 min 500.0 max
  
• Wt Distributing Hitch - Max Trailer Wt. 9400 lbs 9400.0 min 9400.0 max
  
• Wt Distributing Hitch - Max Tongue Wt. 1410 lbs 1410.0 min 1410.0 max
  

If those stats are correct (and I understand them), does this mean I could tow about 8,000 lbs?

1,000 lbs of people/cargo + 1,000 lbs of hitch weight (12.5%) is 2,000 lbs of 2,181 lbs max payload.

6,419 lbs of vehicle curb weight plus 8,000 lbs of trailer weight is Gross Combined weight of 14,419 lbs of 16,000 lbs max.

[garyp4951]

You can rent a class C once a year for your Disney trip, and use what you have to tow another pop up plus a tent for the older kids, for local camping.

[4x4ord]

We've got six kids but they are spread out enough that by the time the youngest came along the oldest was out the door. We had four kids at home for many years. We had mini vans crew cabs and a Yukon XL. We always used a diesel crew cab for camping. Sometimes we had five seats for six and put four in the back. Sometimes we had six seats and had three and three or three and four. Sometimes I rode in the fiver so the rest could fit in the truck. I was never overly concerned about seat belts or car seats.

[Grit_dog]

Any newer well equipped 1/2 ton SUV will tow a decent size TT with ease. Problem solved except for the fuel mileage thing during commuting or soccer mom duties, but a minivan won't get much better mileage and you'd be hard pressed to make up the difference by having a 3rd vehicle.
Van, meh, I guess if you really want one. 4 kids in a crew cab pickup = I'd rather stay home than have a crumb muncher riding shotgun for 1000miles.

[danrclem]

I wouldn't want to caravan because everybody riding together is part of the experience for me anyway.

[Bionic_Man]

I think a full size van would be your best option - either the Chevy or the Ford. That will have the best tow rating, and the most interior room. Much more than a Burb or Expedition.

As far as the suggestion to caravan out, I would think long and hard about that. When we go camping, we often do it at a lake, and take the boat. Short version of the story is that my wife and I caravan out - she pulls the RV with the truck, and I pull the boat with a Yukon XL. Neither of us are in love with this way to travel. Seems very inefficient, and makes a three hour trip seem a lot longer. Not to mention what it would feel like on a 1000 mile journey.