Sold my old rig and starting over -- Need advice!

[itsjustjer]

We had a 2003 Suburban 1500 and a 2006 Fleetwood Niagara Highwall Popup for a couple years. I just recently sold both of them. The popup wasn't enough space because we seemed to always have the kids' cousins come along with us. We got rid of the Suburban because it kept giving us problem after problem.

My wife and I have 3 young kids and currently trying for our 4th and final. We live in Indiana and most of the time we're going to be taking weekend trips close to home, about 200-300 miles at most. However, we are really interested in starting a yearly tradition of taking the camper to Disney World's Fort Wilderness which is about 1000 miles away and takes us through the Smoky Mountains.

My wife stays home with the kids and she drives a minivan. Right now I'm driving an old Pontiac Grand Am to and from work.

Now that you're familiar with our situation, I need some help as I've just been going back and forth and it's driving me insane!

I just really need someone I can talk this out with to make the best decision that meets our needs.

I could trade the minivan for a Suburban 2500 and then we could use our everyday family vehicle as our tow vehicle. It's nice because we'd have plenty of room for the kids and even the cousins (right now we're no where near this, but I'm using 1000 lbs as the weight of occupants because kids grow).

The problem is the terrible gas mileage compared to the minivan. This part is kind of hard to calculate or anticipate. There are times when my wife doesn't leave the house all day, so the van doesn't get driven. Then there are times when we take a 2 hour drive to the grandparent's house.

Also something I've been considering is towing must be harder on certain parts of the vehicle, right? Does towing significantly shorten the life of the vehicle? Are we going to experience issues much sooner than if we weren't using it to tow?

The reason for the 2500 would be so we could have a bigger camper. If we go this route and just suck it up regarding the increase gas consumption, is it beyond the realm of possibility to find a camper with a layout that gives us a "kids room" quad bunk type of setup that we could safely tow?

The other option I've been considering is to leave the minivan alone. I'd sell the old Grand Am and just buy a truck that seats 6. My oldest is a lot older than her siblings, but still technically too young to "safely" ride in the front seat at 9 years old, so I'm not even sure if this is a viable option. It would not really be a comfortable ride, but it would definitely open up the possibility of bigger campers and even fifth wheels. It would be my daily driver, so again gas would suck, but there's not really anyway around it. I just don't really have any need for a truck other than towing the camper so it feels a little frivolous to make that purchase.

I've also kicked around the idea of a motorhome, but it's pretty rare for them to have as much sleeping capacity as a travel trailer or fifth wheel, so I haven't really explored that option too much.

Sorry for the rambling, but I'm just kind of burning myself out thinking about this. I want to come up with a good plan that makes the most sense.

[anw7405]

Here is my experience. I have 4 small kids and we love to camp. I also really need 4x4. So we have a 2005 8.1 3/4 ton 4x4 suburban and love this thing. We hook up our trailer and gear about 10k and go. No worries. No problems. kids watch the DVD player in the back. comfortable. Just be patient and they will pop up for sale here and there. My advice would be go get a loan and have it ready to go. Then be ready to drive somewhere or fly somewhere and pick the truck up. Thats what I did and couldn't be happier. Keep the little beater car for work though. You will same money in gas in the long run.

[4x4ord]

bid_time wrote:
My experience tells me people pulling a fifth wheel with a diesel drive considerably faster than all other people towing. Making them considerly more dangerous.

It could be that if an idiot buys a diesel, tunes it, couples it to an 18000 lb toy hauler and drives it like an idiot he is less safe than he would have been with a '92 Honda Accord coupled to an Airstream, but I don't think that means a more capable tow vehicle is more dangerous than a less capable one.

[bid_time]

4x4ord wrote:

ExxWhy wrote:

4x4ord wrote:
There are two ways of increasing safety while traveling in a vehicle. One way is to prepare for an accident.... therefore seat belts; car seats; air bags; helmets etc. If I was planning on a head on collision I'd definitely insist everyone wear their helmet. The other way is to avoid the accident in the first place. Driving a crew cab diesel pick up pulling a fifth wheel you will be far less likely to loose control and crash than towing a TT with a van.

I'm quite skeptical of that statement. What do you base that on? Are there some sort of accident stats you can quote?

I don't have any stats ... I base my opinion on what I would consider common sense. The fifth wheel being coupled at the rear axle of the truck or slightly ahead has a huge advantage over coupling a trailer 4 feet behind the rear axle. As soon as the truck starts to move left with a fifth wheel the front of the trailer gently follows to the left. With a tag trailer the truck moving left causes the front of the trailer to initially swing slightly right before following left. The additional pin weight put on a fifth wheel (better weight distribution) reduces the likely hood of trailer sway being initiated from the trailer bouncing on uneven road surfaces or curving roads. Under emergency braking situations or steering maneuvers the fifth wheel has less leverage acting on the back of the tow vehicle to push it out of control. The better towing mirrors, heavier suspension, better wheel braking as well as engine braking of a heavy duty pick up vs a van or SUV are all safety factors.

My experience tells me people pulling a fifth wheel with a diesel drive considerably faster than all other people towing. Making them considerly more dangerous.

[Kevinwa]

My choice, although with only two kids, was to keep our two daily drivers, minivan and older F150. We then bought a new tow vehicle. Our choice was a SRW F350 diesel, but there are tons of things that can fit your needs such as full size vans etc. A coworker has four kids and they use a mega cab ram 3500 as their tow vehicle. Don’t discount the ability of your nine year old to sit in the front, if they aren’t big enough yet they probably will be wishing the year, so maybe don’t use that as the decision. Also lots of the full size vans are really nice now!
I actually really like having a tow vehicle that I don’t use for much else. That way when it is time to go on trips it is ready to go. It can be hooked up and when I get how from work in the beater F150 we can just hop in and go. Also the tow vehicle can be used as backup for the daily driver if one of them is ever in the shop, letting us drive older daily drivers then I would be comfortable with if we didn’t have a backup.

[4x4ord]

ExxWhy wrote:

4x4ord wrote:
There are two ways of increasing safety while traveling in a vehicle. One way is to prepare for an accident.... therefore seat belts; car seats; air bags; helmets etc. If I was planning on a head on collision I'd definitely insist everyone wear their helmet. The other way is to avoid the accident in the first place. Driving a crew cab diesel pick up pulling a fifth wheel you will be far less likely to loose control and crash than towing a TT with a van.

I'm quite skeptical of that statement. What do you base that on? Are there some sort of accident stats you can quote?

I don't have any stats ... I base my opinion on what I would consider common sense. The fifth wheel being coupled at the rear axle of the truck or slightly ahead has a huge advantage over coupling a trailer 4 feet behind the rear axle. As soon as the truck starts to move left with a fifth wheel the front of the trailer gently follows to the left. With a tag trailer the truck moving left causes the front of the trailer to initially swing slightly right before following left. The additional pin weight put on a fifth wheel (better weight distribution) reduces the likely hood of trailer sway being initiated from the trailer bouncing on uneven road surfaces or curving roads. Under emergency braking situations or steering maneuvers the fifth wheel has less leverage acting on the back of the tow vehicle to push it out of control. The better towing mirrors, heavier suspension, better wheel braking as well as engine braking of a heavy duty pick up vs a van or SUV are all safety factors.

[ExxWhy]

4x4ord wrote:
There are two ways of increasing safety while traveling in a vehicle. One way is to prepare for an accident.... therefore seat belts; car seats; air bags; helmets etc. If I was planning on a head on collision I'd definitely insist everyone wear their helmet. The other way is to avoid the accident in the first place. Driving a crew cab diesel pick up pulling a fifth wheel you will be far less likely to loose control and crash than towing a TT with a van.

I'm quite skeptical of that statement. What do you base that on? Are there some sort of accident stats you can quote?

[All_I_could_aff]

I would keep the minivan and grand am for the primary daily drivers, and buy either a 2008-2013 Suburban 2500 or full size van either Chevy/GMC 3500 or Ford E350 for towing duty. This vehicle can also double as the back up vehicle when either of the other two vehicles needs to be laid up for maintenance or repairs

[Thom02099]

itsjustjer wrote:
Since I posted this yesterday I’ve learned about these Passport 3290BH travel trailers and they’ve got me really excited! Envisioning how we would use it and the people we’d need beds for, this seems like an excellent option. The weight is incredible at 8,000 GVWR. Based on everything I listed previously regarding the Suburban 2500, this combination would be a comfortable towing experience, wouldn’t it?

If so, I think what we’d do is just finance the Suburban and keep the van for my wife. Then I’d need to decide what to do with my old Grand Am. It’s worth like 1500-2000, so it really won’t do much to put a dent in the cost of the Suburban. I could keep it and drive it to and from work for the gas savings. Or sell it and enjoy the 1500-2000 dollars in gas money when the Suburban 2500 becomes my commuter.

Regarding the Passport TT, my neighbour has this model with the 2 slide out bunks in the rear and they love it. They have adult children living at home in addition to a grandchild so this set up works for them, allowing them to put a baby bed in the space between the bunks. Their kiddos (and in law) are late teens to mid 20s. And yes, they still camp together. But they also have a RAM 3500 SRW diesel to pull it with, and they do take a separate car with them, for the caravan.

Another alternative to consider, if you're open to it, is one of the hybrid trailers, with tent ends and solid TT walls and amenities. There are several that have triple and even quad tent fold downs (1 rear/1 front/1 on each side). This would accommodate you and your crew plus the assorted cousins that you mentioned. Mom and Dad up front in that fold out, and the kiddos have the rear of the trailer to themselves. They are actually quite nice for what they are designed to do.

Regarding the tow vehicle question, if it were me, I would keep your current vehicles for the economy of being a daily commuter, and go with the idea of the van. Mentioned prior, we had a Chevy 35 conversion van back in the 90s as well and it was very accommodating for long trips. Had a TV in the center console between the captains chairs up front (they now have ceiling drop down TVs) with 2 captains chairs in the middle and a full electric sofa in the rear that turned into a queen bed. I've seen some Chevy Express vans out here that are conversion vans, so I know they are available. OR...the stock Chevy or GMC vans would probably do the trick for you with the seating configurations they offer.

Not mentioned (I don't recall seeing it in prior responses) is the Nissan NV series van. I've seen several of these at some of the USFS campgrounds we go to, with goodly sized trailers in tow. So they are surely capable of pulling not only a larger trailer, but also at elevation.

Good luck in whatever you decide!

[4x4ord]

There are two ways of increasing safety while traveling in a vehicle. One way is to prepare for an accident.... therefore seat belts; car seats; air bags; helmets etc. If I was planning on a head on collision I'd definitely insist everyone wear their helmet. The other way is to avoid the accident in the first place. Driving a crew cab diesel pick up pulling a fifth wheel you will be far less likely to loose control and crash than towing a TT with a van.

[Dadoffourgirls]

Not sure what vehicle insurance costs in Indiana, but that is what put a dent in my calculation of keeping a fuel efficient vehicle.

The 2500 Burb will work, and fuel economy will be much better if it is a 2008 or newer with the 6spd transmission.

If on a budget, I recommend a 3500 Chevy Express. They are much cheaper than a Burb, can tow same and take heavier hitch weight, and have many seats and seat belts. It will not be as nice as the others, but there is something to having older technology and less electronics. I have installed Bilsteins on mine, and that has improved the ride.

[Bionic_Man]

itsjustjer wrote:
That’s an excellent point about the vans. I’m open to the idea, it’s just hard to come by and the ones I’m finding are very costly. Unless I buy an old used one from the 90s that is. With our vehicle troubles on the 2003 Suburban I’m kind of soured from the thought of buying an older vehicle again.

If you are interested in a van, and having difficulty finding one, widen your search. Vans are a fraction of the price of a Burb in this part of the country.

[blt2ski]

We had an Astro and Safari van. Great in town transportation etc.
I went with a pickup, as I did construction work.
But, with that said, a few bucks nor for a full size van would have been a better option. A burb was never in the mix. Grew up traveling in, learned to drive an IHC travel all. Three in the tree, 120HP 6 cylinder .......
Needed 4wd as most of the towing was in winter using trailer as a ski hut. Yes a red would work. But 4wd chains for truck and trailer was a better option.

Marty

[itsjustjer]

That’s an excellent point about the vans. I’m open to the idea, it’s just hard to come by and the ones I’m finding are very costly. Unless I buy an old used one from the 90s that is. With our vehicle troubles on the 2003 Suburban I’m kind of soured from the thought of buying an older vehicle again.

[ExxWhy]

When my 4 kids were young, we always had a full size conversion van. This was back in the 90's when they were very common. Traveled to 46 states with 4 kids comfortably. No substitute for the personal space on long trips. I shudder to think of traveling with my gang in a crew cab pickup.

They are still made, just not as common as they used to be. Rated to tow 10K, they make a nice tow vehicle. They do like fuel. 13 mpg. I found that a small price to pay for the travelling comfort. We truly had some priceless travels with the kids. In my opinion, the only way to go with that many kids.