Sway bars versus RAS versus SS…which one did you choose/why?

[billtex]

Old school, tried/true conventional sway bar (Hellwig/Roadmaster)?

Or new fangled (20 yrs?);RAS
Looks interesting…

2nd question; was it worthwhile and how did it improve your handling?

3rd question; any negative effect on handling/ride?

Edit; adding another option; Super Springs!

To be clear-want to correct for sway/lean/roll/tracking.

Tx, Bill

[AH64ID]

billtex wrote:

ah64id wrote:
I didn't realize you have a LWB camper on a SWB truck (or is that just how it looks in the photos??), I wonder if that is why the airbags didn't give you what you wanted?

Where is the CG on that camper?

EC850 is a SB camper on a SB truck.
You can see the Red COG sticker right over the axle.

Thanks, just looks like a LWB camper in the photos. I just looked at their website and it appears to fit either, are there physical differences between the LWB and SWB?

CG looks to be a few inches behind the rear axle.

[billtex]

ah64id wrote:
I didn't realize you have a LWB camper on a SWB truck (or is that just how it looks in the photos??), I wonder if that is why the airbags didn't give you what you wanted?

Where is the CG on that camper?

EC850 is a SB camper on a SB truck.
You can see the Red COG sticker right over the axle.

[AH64ID]

I didn't realize you have a LWB camper on a SWB truck (or is that just how it looks in the photos??), I wonder if that is why the airbags didn't give you what you wanted?

Where is the CG on that camper?

[dadwolf2]

Nice looking rig Bill. My SS experience has been the same.

[billtex]

Just wanted to post the outcome; went with 5000# supersprings and 16 x 7 OE steel wheels. The Supersprings are great. Actual install time was more like 2 hrs. total. I don't have a shop to work in and installed them on a cold New England day in my driveway a few weeks ago. Finally got to load up and do a proper test drive. The SS appear to have softened the unladed ride (perhaps because I am not on the airbags any longer) and have really improved the handling when loaded; much less lean in the corners and sway/bounce almost non-existent. Handling is much more confident. Took a quick trip this weekend, had minimal psi in the bags. Maybe I'll play around with that next trip and see if I can make any further improvements. With just the SS I don't feel that I really need the bags any more...but they are still on there so I'll play with them and see what happens.
Last year (no SS)'

Today with SS;

[AH64ID]

Butch50 wrote:
ah64id,

Per your picture and your profile you are pulling a TT and not carrying a slide in TC. These are 2 different animals. With your trailer there is now way you are putting as much of a load on your truck as the guys with TCs. A TT is only going to put from 10 to 12% on the weight on the tongue. So if your TT is 7000# loaded that is 700 to 840# of tongue weight. What are the size of your bars on your rig. 1000# or 1200# bars? Your tongue weight is in most cases less than 1/3 of the weight that a camper is putting on a truck. Also your weight is being applied at the hitch level where a camper weight is weight is being applied way above the axle and as such there is going to be a tendency to have more sway and more bounce with a TC. With air bags and no contact with the overloads there is going to be more bounce and sway. Drive behind a TC and see how they sway back and forth with just road changes. A truck pulling a TT is not going to have the same issues.

So when you use your experience it is comparing apples to oranges. They are not the same. Bill's truck would handle your TT without any problems also but he is talking TC.

Wow, if your dad has 8,000# on the rear axle of his 3/4 that is more than I have on my 2013 Ram DRW with my camper on. I have 900# less on my rears than that with my NL 10 2 CDSE when it is loaded and ready to go camping. My rear scale weight on the rear is 7140# and that is with an almost 4000# camper back there. So your dad's truck well be lighter in the rear than my truck and yet is 900# heavier than I am so his camper has to weigh over 5000#. What camper brand and size does he have on his truck??

Bedlam is dead on with his explanation of a setup with a TC.

Butch I didn't see your post until this morning.

Yes I currently use a TT, but that doesn't tell you anything about experience or knowledge of the subject, just what you assume.

Loads have predictable effects on suspensions, and modifications have predictable effects. It's really that simple.

A TC is harder, as you know, on a suspension based on the high center of gravity. Trying to fight sway with spring rate on a high center of gravity takes a lot of spring rate, there are easier ways to reduce sway and not effect the spring rate.

[AH64ID]

Redsky wrote:
Sway can result from weak springs, weak shocks, overloaded tires, and frame flexing. The anti-sway bar helps with the frame flexing. Supersprings help with the weak springs. I had minimal sway with my new 2011 GM truck and reduced it even further with new tires that had an extra 650 lb per tire of load capacity so I have less sidewall flexing with the camper load.

I believe in beefing up the stock components but not changing the way they work as with air bags or Sumosprings except as a very last resort. With a new Ford truck I would definitely add as big an anti-sway bar at the rear as I could find. I would not bother with the current Ram or GM trucks that have frames that better resist torsional loading.

Supersprings took me all of an hour to install on my truck. I like something that I can do once and then forget about it, unlike air bags or Sumosprings.

Sway bars are mainly for spring flex, they keep the axle in a level plane. The entire design is to keep the springs level, as even soft frames are stiffer than springs so the springs flex first.

They might help with a little frame flex, but mainly spring.

The reason 3rd gen Dodges dropped the sway bar is the leaf springs are wider and longer, which reduces the need for sway bars. I can tell you from experience that they are still very beneficial thou.

I find it interesting that you don't want to effect the way an OEM suspension works, yet you installed super springs. Super springs change the way the OEM spring works, and induces a non-OEM pivot point. Of all the methods you listed, IMO, super springs are going to effect the OEM components the most.

[ISBRAM]

billtex wrote:

ISBRAM wrote:

billtex wrote:

ISBRAM wrote:
I use my air bags just for leveling side to side and need them. I 'm sure that they would need to be removed to install the RAS system. I think my stock camper package overload leaf would also be in the way of the RAS System.
When I replaced my rear anti sway bar with the Roadmaster it was a huge improvement. After several trips on twisty mountain highways I replaced the front, it also made a big improvement.
I'm still planning on going to a heavier load rated tire and wheel combination as I’m right at the limit.

What are you running for tires now?
Tx, Bill

Well up until yesterday I was running the stock 245x75R16LT load range E rated at 3040 lbs per tire. I bought a Vision Heavy Hauler Wheel set up with 245x70R19.5 load range G rated at 4540 lbs per tire.
So far I’ve been very impressed as the ride isn’t bad and it drives a lot more stable, I can’t wait to test them fully loaded on the mountain highways.
The new tires are a little over three inches larger in diameter than the stock tires, but they have plenty of clearance on my Ram. The new rear high rake was very noticeable, I think the old rear tires were bulging at the sidewalls so much that it was riding a little lower in the rear.

Sweet...are those hub-centric?

Bill

Well it appears that they are hub centric on my truck equipped with Dana 70 & 60 axles. I thought it all lined up too easy when I mounted them yesterday, I guess it depends on what axles your truck is equipped with as their web site shows centric rings for some trucks that have smaller diameter hubs.
This is still a little confusing as it still uses tapered seat lug nuts, but so did the stock oem wheels.

[billtex]

ISBRAM wrote:
Well up until yesterday I was running the stock 245x75R16LT load range E rated at 3040 lbs per tire. I bought a Vision Heavy Hauler Wheel set up with 245x70R19.5 load range G rated at 4540 lbs per tire.
So far I’ve been very impressed as the ride isn’t bad and it drives a lot more stable, I can’t wait to test them fully loaded on the mountain highways.
The new tires are a little over three inches larger in diameter than the stock tires, but they have plenty of clearance on my Ram. The new rear high rake was very noticeable, I think the old rear tires were bulging at the sidewalls so much that it was riding a little lower in the rear.

Sweet...are those hub-centric?

Bill

[ISBRAM]

billtex wrote:

ISBRAM wrote:
I use my air bags just for leveling side to side and need them. I 'm sure that they would need to be removed to install the RAS system. I think my stock camper package overload leaf would also be in the way of the RAS System.
When I replaced my rear anti sway bar with the Roadmaster it was a huge improvement. After several trips on twisty mountain highways I replaced the front, it also made a big improvement.
I'm still planning on going to a heavier load rated tire and wheel combination as I’m right at the limit.

What are you running for tires now?
Tx, Bill

Well up until yesterday I was running the stock 245x75R16LT load range E rated at 3040 lbs per tire. I bought a Vision Heavy Hauler Wheel set up with 245x70R19.5 load range G rated at 4540 lbs per tire.
So far I’ve been very impressed as the ride isn’t bad and it drives a lot more stable, I can’t wait to test them fully loaded on the mountain highways.
The new tires are a little over three inches larger in diameter than the stock tires, but they have plenty of clearance on my Ram. The new rear high rake was very noticeable, I think the old rear tires were bulging at the sidewalls so much that it was riding a little lower in the rear.

[Redsky]

Sway can result from weak springs, weak shocks, overloaded tires, and frame flexing. The anti-sway bar helps with the frame flexing. Supersprings help with the weak springs. I had minimal sway with my new 2011 GM truck and reduced it even further with new tires that had an extra 650 lb per tire of load capacity so I have less sidewall flexing with the camper load.

I believe in beefing up the stock components but not changing the way they work as with air bags or Sumosprings except as a very last resort. With a new Ford truck I would definitely add as big an anti-sway bar at the rear as I could find. I would not bother with the current Ram or GM trucks that have frames that better resist torsional loading.

Supersprings took me all of an hour to install on my truck. I like something that I can do once and then forget about it, unlike air bags or Sumosprings.

[billtex]

Supersprings are on.
Several Folks reported an improved ride when they installed SS. I am not sure I understand why...but the ride is better...noticeably better. Took a ride around town (no camper) and cannot believe the improvement in ride quality.
I have to assume that the airbags have been taken out of play (have them at 8 psi). The ride with airbags only, previous to the SS, was pretty harsh with the same 8 psi. I ran out of daylight so I could not properly asses the whole suspension system tonight. SS were set at middle hole on brackets both front and back (I may adjust this preload after I load camper and see how it handle). The ride height was raised 1" over previous.
So far very pleased. I will load up the TC this weekend and dial it in.
Don't think I will make the scales until next week, curious to see if there is any load transfer to front axle.
Stay tuned.
Bill

[billtex]

Something else to keep in mind; as I have a benchmark (our previous camper) that we hauled for 10k’s miles, I am conscious of the change in handling with the new camper. If this were our first camper, I might have dropped it on the truck and never questioned how it felt.
Because I have a comparison (with the same truck) I am confident I can get this setup to work just as well…with the appropriate modifications.
As bedlam noted, this may (or may not) be a multi-step process. New shocks will likely be part of that process.

Thanks again, Bill

[AH64ID]

billtex wrote:

If your Dad has 8000 lbs on the rear axle...that is a LOT more than me...and must be one scary ride on a SRW 3/4 ton truck!?

What the heck is he running for tires?

He has some 285/75/17 tires rated at 3970lbs.

It's the same axle as your GM, and SRW/DRW GM 3500 and Dodge SRW/DRW 3500 trucks.

With airbags, and a Big Wig Sway bar its not an issue to drive. A bit of that weight on the rear is tongue weight from a horse trailer.

If your ride is bouncy I would thing a better shock might be in order, or adding ping tanks to the airbag setup would help.