How many of us have them?
They seem to be exclusive to truck campers. My Lance has two Manchester 30 lb OPD horizontals, and I’ve noticed some TC’s have two 20 lb horizontals. All of the horizontals I’ve seen have a real level sensing gauge. I don’t think I’ve ever seen a vertical cylinder with a gauge. My camper has a built-in generator, so I like the 30 lb size, but I sometimes wish they were the traditional vertical style. Other than the fact that horizontal cylinders are significantly more expensive than verticals, I don’t really care which way they’re oriented.
The original cylinders in my camper were manufactured in 1999, so starting in ~2012 I was occasionally having the LP refillers telling me they needed to be recertified. It didn’t cost much, so no problem. The refillers don’t always care about the age of them, so the two cylinders got out of sync on their recertifications. Then I started having occasional issues with the seals leaking inside the valves that the Acme nut seats against. Even though the seal can be screwed out of the valve, it’s not individually replaceable. In fact, the newest version of these valves has an internal snap ring that prevents removing the seal.
The old valves were Sherwood brand, and I was having trouble finding the correct valve part number, and a supplier for them, so about three years ago I started looking at new cylinders, thinking that would be the better way to go. Dang those things are expensive! About $200 each :E But, I bit the bullet and ordered two.
Everything is good till about March of this year, when one of the “new” cylinders that had been refilled maybe 6-8 months prior, wouldn’t allow propane to flow out of the valve. I know about the OPD valves, Acme nut, and excess-flow check valve in the pigtails and how they work. I tried everything, and concluded there was something wrong with the valve itself. The new cylinders were about 3 months outside their 3 year warranty at that time :M
I took the cylinder to the local Ferrellgas dealer, and they came to the same conclusion: Bad valve. Then they tried ordering a new valve. The part # is listed on a label on the new cylinders. There is no manufacturer name on the valve, and the label says to order from Manchester.
They called me a few days later and said they were having trouble finding a supplier for the valve, so I started looking. At the time, every place that had the valve on their website was showing out of stock, and no way to order. There were several suppliers that had a V20691.1 valve in stock, but no V20691.2 (probably some minor design change).
One supplier (High Sky RV Parts) allowed me to get on a waiting list to be notified when it could be ordered. They aren’t terribly expensive, about $32.50 each. I did that, and a few weeks later, I got an email. I ordered two valves that day, and they submitted a special order to the manufacturer.
“Your parts have been processed with the manufacturer as a Special Order. It may take up to 3 weeks for your part to be delivered to you. Your patience is greatly appreciated. If you do not receive your order within this time frame, please contact us.”
Over a month later, I finally get the two valves. Yesterday, I took the “new” cylinder with the bad valve, and one of the old cylinders back to Ferrellgas to get them both re-valved and filled. I’m not going to be caught in this situation again.
Kudos to High Sky. At least they got me the valves. None of the delay was their responsibility. What an ordeal, though. I’ll go pick up the cylinders today or tomorrow and hopefully, that will be the end of it.
One final note; I have one more old 30 lb horizontal cylinder if anyone wants it. I’m in Little Rock, and you’ll have to come get it. It will need a new valve, and you’ll have to deal with the fact that it’s 20+ years old. I don’t really need two old cylinders sitting around though, and it’s still serviceable.
:):)
They seem to be exclusive to truck campers. My Lance has two Manchester 30 lb OPD horizontals, and I’ve noticed some TC’s have two 20 lb horizontals. All of the horizontals I’ve seen have a real level sensing gauge. I don’t think I’ve ever seen a vertical cylinder with a gauge. My camper has a built-in generator, so I like the 30 lb size, but I sometimes wish they were the traditional vertical style. Other than the fact that horizontal cylinders are significantly more expensive than verticals, I don’t really care which way they’re oriented.
The original cylinders in my camper were manufactured in 1999, so starting in ~2012 I was occasionally having the LP refillers telling me they needed to be recertified. It didn’t cost much, so no problem. The refillers don’t always care about the age of them, so the two cylinders got out of sync on their recertifications. Then I started having occasional issues with the seals leaking inside the valves that the Acme nut seats against. Even though the seal can be screwed out of the valve, it’s not individually replaceable. In fact, the newest version of these valves has an internal snap ring that prevents removing the seal.
The old valves were Sherwood brand, and I was having trouble finding the correct valve part number, and a supplier for them, so about three years ago I started looking at new cylinders, thinking that would be the better way to go. Dang those things are expensive! About $200 each :E But, I bit the bullet and ordered two.
Everything is good till about March of this year, when one of the “new” cylinders that had been refilled maybe 6-8 months prior, wouldn’t allow propane to flow out of the valve. I know about the OPD valves, Acme nut, and excess-flow check valve in the pigtails and how they work. I tried everything, and concluded there was something wrong with the valve itself. The new cylinders were about 3 months outside their 3 year warranty at that time :M
I took the cylinder to the local Ferrellgas dealer, and they came to the same conclusion: Bad valve. Then they tried ordering a new valve. The part # is listed on a label on the new cylinders. There is no manufacturer name on the valve, and the label says to order from Manchester.
They called me a few days later and said they were having trouble finding a supplier for the valve, so I started looking. At the time, every place that had the valve on their website was showing out of stock, and no way to order. There were several suppliers that had a V20691.1 valve in stock, but no V20691.2 (probably some minor design change).
One supplier (High Sky RV Parts) allowed me to get on a waiting list to be notified when it could be ordered. They aren’t terribly expensive, about $32.50 each. I did that, and a few weeks later, I got an email. I ordered two valves that day, and they submitted a special order to the manufacturer.
“Your parts have been processed with the manufacturer as a Special Order. It may take up to 3 weeks for your part to be delivered to you. Your patience is greatly appreciated. If you do not receive your order within this time frame, please contact us.”
Over a month later, I finally get the two valves. Yesterday, I took the “new” cylinder with the bad valve, and one of the old cylinders back to Ferrellgas to get them both re-valved and filled. I’m not going to be caught in this situation again.
Kudos to High Sky. At least they got me the valves. None of the delay was their responsibility. What an ordeal, though. I’ll go pick up the cylinders today or tomorrow and hopefully, that will be the end of it.
One final note; I have one more old 30 lb horizontal cylinder if anyone wants it. I’m in Little Rock, and you’ll have to come get it. It will need a new valve, and you’ll have to deal with the fact that it’s 20+ years old. I don’t really need two old cylinders sitting around though, and it’s still serviceable.
:):)
Filling up monitoring by opening the bleeder is old school and environmentally bad.
Our Costco has best propane prices for whole city and they use precise scale.
Guy reads the tare weight on the tank, adds allowable propane weight, sets the computer to it and computer is shutting the fill at proper weight.
No propane smell.
Our Costco has best propane prices for whole city and they use precise scale.
Guy reads the tare weight on the tank, adds allowable propane weight, sets the computer to it and computer is shutting the fill at proper weight.
No propane smell.
silversand wrote:
.............
NRALIFR:
I bled (rather, purged) our horizontal cylinder myself (with a qualified gas tech), the first time it was filled. That end cap on the bleeder spigot is interesting. I can't recall if our tank has that. On edit: OK, I can remember now; I have no cap, and the screw is indeed exposed.
On edit: was the 12 year initial requalification period reduced from 12 years to 10 years in 2017? And, the subsequent requalification period lengthened from 7 to 10 years?
Also, a question to everyone: do you have your brand new propane cylinders "purged" before first filling?
Silver, here’s a better picture of the new valve. I suspect the screw you loosened to purge your tank was the bleed screw, rather than what is under the red cap on my valve.
I looked at the OPD valves on all of my old tanks, and guess what? NONE of them have that red cap. Maybe that’s a recent thing on them, and will just be phased in as the old valves are replaced.
My second old horizontal cylinder still has its original valve, and it looks like this (no red cap):
All of my older cylinders have a valve that looks more like this, with no red cap. Did they ever have that, I can’t say but I find it hard to believe that they all just fell out. I’m going to guess that the purpose of the red cap is to give a visual indication that the pressure relief valve has vented. It seems like you’d want to know that. With the older valves, the relief valve could vent and you may never know it.
As far as the requalification period, I can only refer you back to the two links I posted earlier. They only mention a 5, 7, and 12 year period, and it’s totally dependent on what type of qualification test is performed.
I do remember that when I brought my two new horizontal cylinders to be filled the first time, they were purged as well. What they did, I couldn’t tell you because I left them and came back a few hours later to pick them up.
:):)
narcodog wrote:
Looking at the above post my tanks never had a red plug and more times than I can remember technicians have loosened the adjustment screw to fill the cylinder. Instead of using the OPD they allow a small burst of gas to flow from the valve.
That screw they are loosening is the one labeled “Bleed Off Valve” in the picture below. The screw under the red cap is the adjustment for the “Pressure Relief Valve”, and it needs to stay at the correct setting. That’s why the cap is supposed to be there, to indicate that it hasn’t been touched. The pressure relief valve is a safety device to vent the tank in case of over-pressurization, like in a fire.
But, I’ve got some old 20 lb cylinders as well that are missing the cap, and I can’t swear that they ever had one either. I suspect they did when they were new, and it just fell out at some point.
I’ve gotten the distinct impression from some of the documentation I’ve read that if you wanted to go to the time and expense of having your LP cylinders tested using the “External Hydrostatic Expansion” method, you could then go another 12 years before recertification. But, where would you go to get such a test? Probably the same place that inspects scuba and welding cylinders.
Considering how cheap (frugal) and lazy (energy conserving) most of us are, I think I’ll just stick to the 5 year visual recertification. Now that I think about it, Ferrellgas didn’t charge me ANYTHING for recertification of the two horizontal cylinders. They charged me for filling each one, and $5.00 each for replacing the valves that I had ordered and carried in.
:):)
Red plug is on safety valve end, so have it missing might indicate that safety valve did open at some time and that might require replacement.
Not sure what is the extend on propane tanks, but scuba tanks have visual inspections couple of times and then following inspection involves valve removal, internal inspection with camera and at the end "wet test" with water compresses to double operating pressure.
Did not scuba for several years, so don't remember the details, but exterior visual inspection can go only so far.
Than some propane TANKS operate over 50 years with no inspections at all, so maybe for ca 100 psi propane holds they are not needed?
Not sure what is the extend on propane tanks, but scuba tanks have visual inspections couple of times and then following inspection involves valve removal, internal inspection with camera and at the end "wet test" with water compresses to double operating pressure.
Did not scuba for several years, so don't remember the details, but exterior visual inspection can go only so far.
Than some propane TANKS operate over 50 years with no inspections at all, so maybe for ca 100 psi propane holds they are not needed?
Adding some new information that might be helpful regarding certification.
As luck would have it, two days after making my last trip to Ferrellgas to pickup my revalved horizontal cylinders, my BBQ grill ran out so I had to go back. The same guy that replaced the valves was filling the grill cylinder, so I asked him some questions about recertification and how often the valves have to be replaced. He said the only time the valve is required to be replaced is if it’s not OPD, or if it’s malfunctioning.
I told him that I thought he said the valve on my old horizontal cylinder “had to be replaced”, and I took that to mean that it was due for replacement based on age. He said no, that valve was missing this little red plastic cover. It’s covering an adjustment screw that you aren’t supposed to adjust.
Ahhhh, got it. That’s why I needed two valves. One was defective, and the other was working but missing a required cap.
We also talked about recertification requirements, and when I got home I did some searching for what we had talked about. The information I found Here, and Here agrees with what he told me.
The important points are:
1- Per DOT regulations, cylinders from 1 lb to 120 lbs need to be recertified, typically 12 years from date of manufacture and every 5, 7 or 12 years thereafter depending upon how the last certification was performed.
2- When a DOT cylinder is manufactured, they typically will be tested using a “Volumetric or external hydrostatic expansion” test. This is an external water jacket hydrostatic test where the tank is tested at twice the marked service pressure. You can verify that the cylinder was tested this way by looking at the manufacturing date stamped in the top ring. If the date stamp has NO alpha character after it, then the cylinder was certified with a volumetric expansion test, and it won’t need to be recertified for 12 years.
3- If there IS an alpha character after the date stamp, it will probably be an “S”, and that means it was certified with an internal hydrostatic test, and it can go 7 years before it needs recertification.
4- Once your LP cylinder needs to be recertified, a certified technician will visually inspect it, and will mark it with the date, and the alpha character “E” to indicate a visual test was performed.
You can see this on the sticker that was placed on my cylinder. The day, month, and year of the inspection, and the fact that the valve was replaced are all punched out. You can also see the big “E” on the sticker, indicating it was visually inspected.
So, I assume that as long as my cylinders can pass a visual inspection, I can use them indefinitely.
:):)
As luck would have it, two days after making my last trip to Ferrellgas to pickup my revalved horizontal cylinders, my BBQ grill ran out so I had to go back. The same guy that replaced the valves was filling the grill cylinder, so I asked him some questions about recertification and how often the valves have to be replaced. He said the only time the valve is required to be replaced is if it’s not OPD, or if it’s malfunctioning.
I told him that I thought he said the valve on my old horizontal cylinder “had to be replaced”, and I took that to mean that it was due for replacement based on age. He said no, that valve was missing this little red plastic cover. It’s covering an adjustment screw that you aren’t supposed to adjust.
Ahhhh, got it. That’s why I needed two valves. One was defective, and the other was working but missing a required cap.
We also talked about recertification requirements, and when I got home I did some searching for what we had talked about. The information I found Here, and Here agrees with what he told me.
The important points are:
1- Per DOT regulations, cylinders from 1 lb to 120 lbs need to be recertified, typically 12 years from date of manufacture and every 5, 7 or 12 years thereafter depending upon how the last certification was performed.
2- When a DOT cylinder is manufactured, they typically will be tested using a “Volumetric or external hydrostatic expansion” test. This is an external water jacket hydrostatic test where the tank is tested at twice the marked service pressure. You can verify that the cylinder was tested this way by looking at the manufacturing date stamped in the top ring. If the date stamp has NO alpha character after it, then the cylinder was certified with a volumetric expansion test, and it won’t need to be recertified for 12 years.
3- If there IS an alpha character after the date stamp, it will probably be an “S”, and that means it was certified with an internal hydrostatic test, and it can go 7 years before it needs recertification.
4- Once your LP cylinder needs to be recertified, a certified technician will visually inspect it, and will mark it with the date, and the alpha character “E” to indicate a visual test was performed.
You can see this on the sticker that was placed on my cylinder. The day, month, and year of the inspection, and the fact that the valve was replaced are all punched out. You can also see the big “E” on the sticker, indicating it was visually inspected.
So, I assume that as long as my cylinders can pass a visual inspection, I can use them indefinitely.
:):)
