Test of snow tires vs all season-video from Road and Track

[agesilaus]

R&T

[fj12ryder]

gbopp wrote:

fj12ryder wrote:
I didn't realize that studded tires were still legal anywhere. They've been off the roads in the midwest for decades.

List of Studded Tire Laws

Missouri Studded Tire Law

You may want to recheck state laws.

I never considered whether they were legal or not, just that you don't see them anymore, and haven't for a long time.

[ktmrfs]

I ran studded tires for years until the blizzaks and other studdless tires came out. around here what we get is glare ice with water on top. way worse than the winter driving I ever encountered in montana, idaho or north dakota growing up.

After using both in the glare ice with water, my take is the studdless winter tires and studded tires are so close in performance that whomever is the better driver would win in any comparison. That's assuming your using a true studdless winter tire like the Blizzak or Michelin ice and not some of the sorta winter tires.

and when the roads are normal, the studless tires are way supperior to studded for traction on plain wet or dry pavement.

tire rack video matches my experience.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S8MnCH-Z0QY


they do have one comparing a studded tire and the SAME tire with no studs installed. As you might expect, the studded tire outperformed the same tire with studs.

[crosscheck]

DJ,

I respect your winter driving experience.

Thank you.

Dave

[_DJ_1]

crosscheck wrote:
The video is clear proof that winter tires are superior to all season and "summer" tires. My question is: Why was there not a forth catagory of tire, studded winter tires? Someone stated earlier that stud less winter tires perform better on icy roads than studded tires. I total ally disagree.Show me the report on ice of the same set of winter tire, one with studs, one without that gives us the better performance with the stud less tire.
My opinion for and against is just that without a scientific study which the OP,s video has excluded a very important product which is studded snow tires.

I live in BC where except for the coast and this year is the exception,we get snow,ice, crude every winter. Because of the mountains, you are always in temperature transition zones as you climb over passes which can give you a variety of road conditions.

My driveway is 1400' long with a 16% grade which we drive multi times/day. Almost every day in the winter,we drive up the local mountain gaining 4000' to ski alpine and nordic. All of the active people that we associate with all have good winter tires with studs.

I have used both for more years than I can remember and I have found that the combination of good winter tires with studs is far superior to anything else on the road.

Dave

Totally agree studs are superior. Been driving Idaho winters for 55 years. Tire Rack has a video of studs vs studless in Sweden. Same car, same tires before and after studding them.

[crosscheck]

The video is clear proof that winter tires are superior to all season and "summer" tires. My question is: Why was there not a forth catagory of tire, studded winter tires? Someone stated earlier that stud less winter tires perform better on icy roads than studded tires. I total ally disagree.Show me the report on ice of the same set of winter tire, one with studs, one without that gives us the better performance with the stud less tire.
My opinion for and against is just that without a scientific study which the OP,s video has excluded a very important product which is studded snow tires.

I live in BC where except for the coast and this year is the exception,we get snow,ice, crude every winter. Because of the mountains, you are always in temperature transition zones as you climb over passes which can give you a variety of road conditions.

My driveway is 1400' long with a 16% grade which we drive multi times/day. Almost every day in the winter,we drive up the local mountain gaining 4000' to ski alpine and nordic. All of the active people that we associate with all have good winter tires with studs.

I have used both for more years than I can remember and I have found that the combination of good winter tires with studs is far superior to anything else on the road.

Dave

[Community Alumni]

Once a skid is detected the ABS system rapidly applies and releases the brakes. Traction is needed in order to get the wheels turning again, but since there's very little on this perfect sheet of ice, they don't. The ABS system assumes the vehicle is stopped. The car has no other way of detecting that the vehicle is still moving and the wheels remain locked.

[Dave_H_M]

I opened the video on the OP's post.

Did anyone notice that the wheels were not turning on the car as it was filmed in the skid?

[Grit_dog]

soren wrote:

Grit dog wrote:
Not a shocker that snow tires are better than non snow tires in snow......
Just siped a new set of mudders for the truck. She climbs mtn passes like a billy goat on crack now!

Yea, if we were talking about old school snow tires, you would be correct. Winter tires are a whole other game. They are very soft, have sipes, mini-sipes on the tread blocks, and all kinds of engineering magic involved in their design and construction. They not only do well in snow, but they are superior on ice, and outperform studded tires in testing.

I don't disagree.
But siping any normal set of tires with good tread gets you quite a ways towards being a dedicated snow tire. For me, I don't need the haaakipilettas. Already got 4wd and I need lugged tires for when the snow is deep.
And they're more versatile as there's no increased treadwear in the summer (unless I have the camper on. That doubles at least, treadwear on the rears. But that would eat up snow tires too) if I decide to leave them on.

Them big heavy mudders did get me for 1-2mpg instantly though over the pavement pounders I took off. Advantage snow tires there.

[Grit_dog]

ktmrfs wrote:

fj12ryder wrote:
I didn't realize that studded tires were still legal anywhere. They've been off the roads in the midwest for decades.

well, most western states still allow them. I wish they wouldn't, first dusting of snow brings them out in force and within a month roads have new ruts in them around here.

I know they are legal in oregon, washington, idaho and montana for part of the year

There's enough city slickers playin demo derby at the first bit of snow around here as it is. Take studs away from the ones that use them and the roads would just be perpetually closed in winter weather!

[Bedlam]

My dune buggy runs winter tires all year since the mileage is low. They do have good traction but wear faster.

[soren]

Grit dog wrote:
Not a shocker that snow tires are better than non snow tires in snow......
Just siped a new set of mudders for the truck. She climbs mtn passes like a billy goat on crack now!

Yea, if we were talking about old school snow tires, you would be correct. Winter tires are a whole other game. They are very soft, have sipes, mini-sipes on the tread blocks, and all kinds of engineering magic involved in their design and construction. They not only do well in snow, but they are superior on ice, and outperform studded tires in testing.

[soren]

theoldwizard1 wrote:
The other tip with winter tires, especially if you are mounting them on a second set of rims, is to go down 1 size, especially true on today's SUVs/CUVs. If you have 19" rims drop down to 18". Double check that your vehicle can accommodate a 1" smaller rim.

More important, drop the tire width down 1 or 2 sizes (say 255 to 245 or 235) and UP the aspect ratio (from 55 to 60 or 65). Just double check the load capacity [i[(you will probably lose a few pounds of capacity per tire, but it will be small and not matter).

Taller, skinnier tires do better in the snow.

Great advice. I did this with my daughter's Toyota FWD. Went from 17 to 15" which dropped the width by at least 20MM, and resulted in a much taller sidewall, which is a lot better for hitting potholes with. The other bonus is that the actual tires are dramatically cheaper, as you decrease rim diameter, and bump the aspect ratio up. OTOH, my son tried to do an even swap for winter tires on his newer GTI with very low profile, wide tires. It was a waste of time and money, as the wide tread, and torquey motor made the thing about useless in snow.

[gbopp]

fj12ryder wrote:
I didn't realize that studded tires were still legal anywhere. They've been off the roads in the midwest for decades.

List of Studded Tire Laws

Missouri Studded Tire Law

You may want to recheck state laws.

[ksg5000]

Not surprising that snow tires are better than non snow tires in snow or ice .. what I would like is a demonstration that shows performance against studded snow tires or chains. On my street - my guess is that chains would rank 1, studded snow tires 2, snow tires 3, and everything else is stuck at home.