The GEO Method and Space Heaters - Thoughts?

[Baja_Man]

Preparing for a week long trip. It will be approx. 300 miles one way to our destination.

1.
I wanted to take this driving opportunity to clean my RV holding tanks.
I was considering using the GEO method (minus Chlorine). My goal is to cleanse inside of tanks, especially black tank, and perhaps coat the insides with the slippery water softener (Calgon).

I would fill each tank half way (Gray and Black) with Calgon and Laundry detergent and then dump once we reach our destination.

Are other methods to accomplish my goal of clean tanks.

Thoughts?

2. Space heaters. Propane heaters use quite a bit of propane. It appears it will dip in to the high 30s-low-mid 40s during our stay. I have two 30# propane tanks.

Are space heaters safe to use or what other methods can be used for my family to keep warm AND safe?

NOTE: We are warm weather campers, so we have little experience in colder temps.

Thanks!

[Baja_Man]

pianotuna wrote:
Baja Man,

Please replace the outlet where you intend to connect the electric heater.

I replaced all but one of the outlets.

Is this appropriate grade? It has side screws as well as push in connections. Is screw connections preferred in RVs?

Also, should I expect a receptacle box or will I find those enclosed wirecon type boxes/receptacles? If the latter, perhaps an old work box and receptacle would be best.

15 amp residential receptacle

Thanks!

[LMHS]

Heater:

This is my full-time set up and the reasons behind it...

I have a dual control heated electric mattress pad on my bed. It's the kind you sleep on top of as opposed to sleeping under a heated electric blanket (heat rises). I have a 0°F sleeping bag opened up flat and tucked inside a "full" duvet cover as a "comforter". The duvet covers cut down on having to wash the bulky sleeping bag. The only problem with the duvet cover is that I had to add buttonholes to the sleeping bag (to secure it inside a duvet cover) and a full-size duvet cover fits widthwise but is a tad long by about 6-8 inches (I shorten the duvet cover).

I have a small electric space heater in the bedroom. I do use electric even though the first house my husband and I owned burned down due to an electrical fire. The bedroom is kept cooler at night for sleeping.

My main heating source is a fan-forced ventless propane residential fireplace with a thermostat. I do run it all night. The fan is not set up to run during a power outage. I also have a "Tag-a-long" indoor propane space heater (back-up heat source for the bedroom) and a Mr Buddy indoor propane space heater (just to warm up the bathroom for showers) plumbed into the main LP system. I do have a CO & LP detector.

I lived for a very long time in an area that tended to lose power a lot in the winter. I learned to have heat and cooking sources that could still be used in the event of a powder outage. I'm talking about power outages that could last up to a week. I haven't lost power for very long in years but it wasn't that long ago that northern NM lost power for over a week due to a winter storm. We only lost power for 1 day, but it was a very cold day and night. At that time, I was still running the fireplace off a single 20LB BBQ tank (to see how much LP it used). I learned that the fireplace could run 24 hours for 7 days on one full tank (4.7 gallons). That's better than the propane generator which eats a tank in 8 hours but always starts right up even after not having run for two years. The worst LP consumption the fireplace had was 5 days on the 20# tank but the fireplace was cranked up really high and ran constantly. I eventually put two marks on the thermostat knob (high and low) of the temps that I typically use. We get single digit temps in the worst of winter. Occasionally those single digits are negative.

Since I am on metered electric, and I do keep track of my actual usage (not dollar amount), I know that whether I use propane or electric, it is basically the same. I either pay for the propane (250 gallon propane tank gets filled to 200 gallons, or less as we pay up front before it gets delivered, every 8-10 months) or I pay for the electric. I do think I stay warmer with propane than electric (I "FEEL" warmer). I also think the electric oil filled radiator doesn't work once it gets below 45°F. Maybe I just got a sucky one.

BTW, statistically, unvented gas appliances put out less humidity than an adult does in normal breathing. So basically, for each unvented gas appliance you use, it's like adding an extra human breathing in the same time frame.

I used to live in 80% (and higher) humidity. I currently live in a desert. My aluminum-framed, single pane windows have PVC framed interior storm windows with a layer of Reflectix between the storm window and the aluminum-framed, single pane window. Creating a thermal break between the aluminum frames and inside had to be done otherwise it was all a waste of time. The front windshield and entry door have packing quilt-Reflectix curtains over them to keep the cold and heat out (or in, depending on the seasons). The curtain over the door means the dog can go in/out as she wants without me having to play door attendant for her. I bought cheap cotton (washable) drop cloths from Harbor Freight to cover the somewhat ugly packing quilts that come in odd colours at times. I'm a big fan of cotton drop cloths and I love the natural colour and texture of the washed canvas. I replace the quilts (Harbor Freight) and Reflectix every few years as the sun rots them. I tried clear bubble wrap and while it worked and it wasn't dark inside, the bubble wrap lasted less than a year before the sun destroyed it.

[ktmrfs]

pianotuna wrote:
Baja Man,

Please replace the outlet where you intend to connect the electric heater.

I replaced all but one of the outlets.

the trailer backstab outlets are a bigger issue and more failure prone when used with inductive loads. e.g. microwave, motors, AC units, than they are with a pure resistive load. e.g. heater, toaster, coffee maker.

That said I did replace my backstabs in the trailer with high grade outlets. IMHO the el cheapo sticks and bricks outlets even though they aren't backstabs are no better than the trailer backstabs. The springs on the contacts are cheap material and loose tension with any heat from high load current and aren't good under inductive loads either.

[pianotuna]

Baja Man,

Please replace the outlet where you intend to connect the electric heater.

I replaced all but one of the outlets.

[Baja_Man]

Thank you all for the very useful ways to keep warm safely and how to clean my tanks.
Much appreciated.

I have a small electric space heater we will take.

Will use propane (as needed) as suggested during awake hours. We'll try electric space heater first since there are full hook ups.

Extra blankets, beanies, socks, and warm clothes in general. We should be good to go.

I like the idea of filling the black tank a second time (after initial dump) using the flush system. I do have a clear angle fitting to view dump contents.

[Baja_Man]

deltabravo wrote:

Baja Man wrote:
1. Will only run propane heater while we are awake.
2.

BTW...are electric heaters safe to run while asleep?

pianotuna:
Is the reason to change the 120V outlet where a space may be used to replace with a house grade or better quality one?

There's no reason not to run the propane furnace when sleeping.... I do it all the time when I'm dry camped.

Yes, electric heaters are safe to run, any time. If they weren't safe to use, they wouldn't be sold.
If you have pets or children, then they may not be the best source of heat at night, because a blanket could fall on them, a pet or child could knock them off a counter, etc.
Good heaters have a tip-over shut off mechanism.

I installed a dedicate electrical outlet specifically for plugging a heater into.

Video of the outlet upgrade project

Thanks for the link to the added outlet!

Is the OEM wiring of smaller gauge, thus not appropriate for the amps of a heater? Or is it because it is a dedicated outlet to one breaker? In the video I did see where he is using 14ga romex and a 15amp breaker.

BTW...I just noticed the video is from Delta Bravo....hey you're famous!!!

[Baja_Man]

SJ-Chris wrote:
Regarding cleaning your black waste tank......

If your waste tank sensors are working/reading correctly, and there are no odors coming from your waste tank, then there is really no need to "clean" it. When people comment, "Why do you need a clean waste tank? blah blah blah" they are thinking about this scenario.

If you want to clean out your black waste tank BECAUSE the sensors aren't reading correctly, or there are odors, that is a legitimate reason. Driving around with 1/2 a tank full of clean water and/or soaps/etc often does the trick. But if you want an easier/faster way to do it you should add a black tank flush system. Sounds much fancier and expensive than it is.....I added a nice one for less than $50. You can read about it here.
https://www.rv.net/forum/index.cfm/fuseaction/thread/tid/30315748.cfm

Here is my experience using it... Assume I start with a black waste tank that is 1/2 to 3/4 full. I'm at the dump station. I hook up my waste hose (with a clear adapter so I can see the contents flow by). I open my black waste valve and it empties all the grossness you imagine. Then it stops. Now, if I hook up the water hose to my black tank flush and turn it on (with the black waste blade valve open) it actually sprays the interior of the black waste tank and LOTS MORE "stuff" flows through the sewer hose. What does this tell me? It tells me that a simple gravity flush gets out lots, but not all the contents of your black tank. As long as you are paying attention and don't get distracted (...suggestion: Start a timer on your phone), you can close the blade valve and fill your black tank half full of water through your tank flush system and then do a 2nd dump by opening up your blade valve. It will get even more "stuff" out of your tank.

My reason for installing the flush system was because my sensors would always read 1/3 or 2/3 full after a regular dump. My tornado flush system sprays/cleans the inside of the black waste tank in about 1 minute and my sensors read correctly. Yes, there are many people who will say, "I never read my sensors" or "I don't need my sensors". To each their own. I personally like sensors on my vehicles/RVs to work.

Good luck and happy dumping!

-Chris

Thanks for the tip on filling black tank a second time using the flush system. I have a factory flush system and use it after initial dump. Sensors are still not very accurate.

Never thought of filling a second time. I'll give it a try this next time we dump. My hopes are that a thorough cleaning by filling 1/2 way with detergent and Calgon, and driving 300 miles, may clean up sensors.

[ktmrfs]

toedtoes wrote:
Furnaces also use a lot of battery power to run the fan. Not everyone uses a generator or has solar to recharge batteries when dry camping. So, for them, bundling up allows them to dry camp for more than 2 nights.

that is true. typical current draw for a furnace is between 8 and 12 amps depending on the furnace. On a cold night furnace can run for quite some time if you set the thermostat at "room" temperature.

[toedtoes]

Furnaces also use a lot of battery power to run the fan. Not everyone uses a generator or has solar to recharge batteries when dry camping. So, for them, bundling up allows them to dry camp for more than 2 nights.

[ktmrfs]

deltabravo wrote:

Baja Man wrote:
1. Will only run propane heater while we are awake.
2.

BTW...are electric heaters safe to run while asleep?

pianotuna:
Is the reason to change the 120V outlet where a space may be used to replace with a house grade or better quality one?

There's no reason not to run the propane furnace when sleeping.... I do it all the time when I'm dry camped.

Yes, electric heaters are safe to run, any time. If they weren't safe to use, they wouldn't be sold.
If you have pets or children, then they may not be the best source of heat at night, because a blanket could fall on them, a pet or child could knock them off a counter, etc.
Good heaters have a tip-over shut off mechanism.

I installed a dedicate electrical outlet specifically for plugging a heater into.

Video of the outlet upgrade project

agree on the outlet upgrades


well for us there are two reasons for not running the furnace when sleeping:
1) I guess we are light sleepers because the furnace cycling on and off makes enough noise that it wakes us up and we end up not getting a good nights sleep
2) We often dry camp for a week or more in remote places and in the spring and fall running the furnace all night sucks up propane, enough that we would run out of propane before we were done camping even with two 30lb tanks.

Now if the noise isn't an issue or you have enough then go ahead and run the furnace at night. no issues.

[Bobbo]

MFL wrote:
Sleeping skin to skin, with a partner you care about, will improve your relationship! No thanks needed, for this PSA.

Jerry

Not sleeping will improve it more. :B

[MFL]

SJ-Chris wrote:


You are glamping in an RV....there is no reason to not be comfortable! Put the heat temp at whatever makes you comfortable. I don't believe in bundling up with extra layers, hats, etc inside the RV. I'll usually put the thermostat such that it is 60-65*F inside the RV. Keep the wife happy and you will get to camp more! 🙂

Stay warm!
Chris

I too, can't believe all the suggestions to wear bulky clothes, even hats, to bed, in an effort to keep warm. I wouldn't be able to sleep!

Even in early years, when tenting, I wore the same as at home (nuttin)! I used a sleeping bag, single or double, depending who my camping partner was.

Google will tell you, why you should sleep non-restricted. Sleeping skin to skin, with a partner you care about, will improve your relationship! No thanks needed, for this PSA.

Jerry

[Trekkar]

I enjoy winter camping. One thing that made a big difference is a Mylar blanket (space blanket) UNDER the bottom sheet of the bed. Much warmer.

[pianotuna]

Baja Man wrote:


BTW...are electric heaters safe to run while asleep?

pianotuna:
Is the reason to change the 120V outlet where a space may be used to replace with a house grade or better quality one?

The reason to change the outlet is the stab connectors are pretty much junk. The more wattage that is drawn the more likely they are to fail. I replaced all but two outlets in my RV.

Electric heaters are safe when treated with some respect. I.e. don't have anything which would restrict the air flow.

As I've said before--I like the oil filled type.

[deltabravo]

Baja Man wrote:
1. Will only run propane heater while we are awake.
2.

BTW...are electric heaters safe to run while asleep?

pianotuna:
Is the reason to change the 120V outlet where a space may be used to replace with a house grade or better quality one?

There's no reason not to run the propane furnace when sleeping.... I do it all the time when I'm dry camped.

Yes, electric heaters are safe to run, any time. If they weren't safe to use, they wouldn't be sold.
If you have pets or children, then they may not be the best source of heat at night, because a blanket could fall on them, a pet or child could knock them off a counter, etc.
Good heaters have a tip-over shut off mechanism.

I installed a dedicate electrical outlet specifically for plugging a heater into.

Video of the outlet upgrade project