This is a reason why Pop Ups aren't selling......

[Mike_Up]

as well as they use to. It's because of how expensive they are now especially compared to travel trailers.



2015 Jay Series 1209SC

The options for this floorplan are listed below.

Customer Value Package (Mandatory) $817.00

Bath/shower with hard walls $2,129.00

(2) Bed mat heaters $262.00

Stereo w/ outside speakers $187.00

Powered roof vent $210.00

16,000-BTU furnace w/ auto ignition $397.00

$17,608 MSRP

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2015 Jay Flight SLX 184BH

The options for this floorplan are listed below.

Customer Value Package (Mandatory) $1,199.00

Roof-mounted 13,500-BTU A/C $412.00

$14,647 MSRP
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264BHW | 2015 JAY FLIGHT SLX

The options for this floorplan are listed below.

Customer Value Package (Mandatory) $1,199.00

Spare tire $180.00

$18,463 MSRP
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[valhalla360]

ElBesoBlanco wrote:
I am in the Fold Up camper sub forum, am I not? I'm here to read about fold up trailers,not read about why I should own a conventional trailer because bigger is better and equates quality.

The subject was fold up vs hard side trailers and how it appears to make more sense for the majority to buy a small hardside rather than fold up.

How do we discuss the subject if we aren't allowed to talk about the benefits of hard sided trailers?

I would think this would be excelent information for someone trying to decide between the two.

On a side note: People talk about sleeping under the stars and hearing the sound of nature...If that's important, you can turn off the Air/Con and open the windows and hatches for the sound and we still have our 6 man tent stored below. We pull it out when we borrow the nieces for a weekend so they can have the experience(we don't do the sleep on the ground thing anymore).

[PopcornJunkie]

mdamerell wrote:
When I was a kid we had a popup. Everything above the 2' high sidewall was canvas. Had to snap a canvas cover over the whole thing before it went down the road (no hard top). No sink, no potty, no fridge, nothing but an empty floor. Basically a tent mounted on a trailer. Much of the increase in price is probably all the "extras" found in popups like fridges, stoves, slide outs, A/C unit, etc.... It's probably easier to put all that in a fixed wall trailer than make it so it open up, rises up, etc.. for you to put the canvas panels in.

When we went looking for a tent trailer in 2004, we wanted something off the ground with places to sleep. Would have loved to have the bunk ends with a mattress to climb up into and just a bare floor to store our clothes and room to change clothes without stepping on sleeping bags and people. My aunt had some kind of tent trailer when I was a kid that opened up with one large bed you stepped up into, and then you had an area to dress and store stuff. I didn't want to get up and down from the ground every time I got up for myself or my kids. Dh has a hard time getting up off the ground. Also, we didn't want to worry about the floor of the tent getting wet.

Even though we have a sink and stove inside our PUP, I wash dishes outside using two tubs, and we cook outside using the PUP's external stove (could just as easily use a camp stove). We love having a campfire for hot dogs, marshmallows, pie iron dinners, and tin foil dinners when campfires aren't banned. It is nice to have the lights and heat.

I do put up the tent in the backyard at least once a summer for the kids and I to sleep in. They love it.

Jean

[patperry2766]

While you do have a point about costs, I do think you're kinda skewing the outcome of your post by the specific trailers that you choose to compare. Jayco does have a lesser priced pop-up, model #1007UD. While the 1007UD doesn't have the shower/toilet option, it is about $5K less MSRP than the one you mentioned.

I have a Flagstaff HW pop-up that I paid about $15K for brand new, I think MSRP was close to $20K. While it is a pain in the butt to set up, we like the fact that we have a better "view" with more windows as opposed to many of the hard-sided models available today. I bought a very nice pop-up with alot of features and ample space for the 5 of us. A comparable double bunk TT will be closer to 25-30K

If we would have been able to predict the future better, we probably would not have bought it....but it is what it is.

[mdamerell]

When I was a kid we had a popup. Everything above the 2' high sidewall was canvas. Had to snap a canvas cover over the whole thing before it went down the road (no hard top). No sink, no potty, no fridge, nothing but an empty floor. Basically a tent mounted on a trailer. Much of the increase in price is probably all the "extras" found in popups like fridges, stoves, slide outs, A/C unit, etc.... It's probably easier to put all that in a fixed wall trailer than make it so it open up, rises up, etc.. for you to put the canvas panels in.

Just like a basic pickup truck. Can't find one because the manufactures have figured out their profit margin is highest on all the add ons and fancy trim packages. They did the same thing to the humble popup.

[Mike_Up]

ElBesoBlanco wrote:
Pardon my misunderstanding, Mike. Your post was stating why pop ups weren't selling like they used to and you posted examples on trailer differences. Also you didn't state you meant tent trailer only.

To me, pop up is a pop up unless specifically stated hard side or tent trailer. Yes, my trailer is a pop up. I can't really describe any other way it sets up....unless someone in denial wants to call it a push up? LOL

What I thought your posting as examples of 'differences on what money can buy ie: trailer vs pop up' was you posting 'type specific price differences within the brand' - so only Jayco - no other brands were meant to be discussed in this thread. My apologies, my mistake.

Thank you for taking a moment to clarify.

My intent was to show why pop ups (tent based systems with a cable wench lift arm system and hard roofs) have not been selling as well. There have been several threads about the fact that pop ups and hybrids aren't selling as well as they have in the past. I have pointed to facts that Pop Ups have gone substantially up in price while traditional travel trailers have gone up little or stayed the same, being the same or less expensive as these tent based Pop Ups.

BTW, Palomino had a hardside pop up which had panels in place of the tent walls but retained the tent based bunks. Apache and Basecamp brands had hardsided pop ups that used hard panels instead of the tent material on the walls, and also used folding ABS panels for the bunkends. They were just like the tent based pop ups in look and function but used folding hard side panels.

The point as well, is that dollar for dollar, TTs are a better value with much better appliances and features whether you like Pop Ups better or not. The fact is that Pop ups use to be a stepping stone to a more expensive travel trailer. Even though I really like Pop Ups (wife hates them with a passion), I wouldn't buy one at the prices they are today because they are a poor value. Hense why I said I'd probably buy used if I could find a decent Pop Up (previously could not) or use the tents to go camping if storage became an issue.

Had nothing to do with saying Pop Ups or other folding campers are******and worthless. I like pop ups and would like to get another one but as it is now, wife wouldn't have one, and I don't want an RV lot in my yard. Previously had that as well. 🙂

[rjf7g]

When we "upgraded" from a Jayco pop-up with two dinettes, a king on one side and a queen on the other to a 27' travel trailer with a rear island queen, jacknife sofa, and dinette we loved our new "hard sided" camper until my parents decided to join us one weekend and we couldn't really sleep everyone comfortably. So, we upgraded again...

[ElBesoBlanco]

Pardon my misunderstanding, Mike. Your post was stating why pop ups weren't selling like they used to and you posted examples on trailer differences. Also you didn't state you meant tent trailer only.

To me, pop up is a pop up unless specifically stated hard side or tent trailer. Yes, my trailer is a pop up. I can't really describe any other way it sets up....unless someone in denial wants to call it a push up? LOL

What I thought your posting as examples of 'differences on what money can buy ie: trailer vs pop up' was you posting 'type specific price differences within the brand' - so only Jayco - no other brands were meant to be discussed in this thread. My apologies, my mistake.

Thank you for taking a moment to clarify.

[rexlion]

I agree completely with the OP. Popup prices have gone up dramatically versus TT prices.

About 1999 or 2000, we bought a pretty basic Starcraft pup for about $5k, kept it just one summer, reasons not important. IIRC a basic TT was about $10k at that time.

In 2011 I bought a KZ Escape for a hair under $10k. Sold it this summer. But I think I could still buy a new one for about the same, $10k, today. Meanwhile, where are the $5k pups? They are all about double that price now.

If mfrs could make pups for half the cost of a TT just a few years ago, what changed? Anything, besides the profit margin?

The answer might lie in how many pup mfrs there are today. Whereas there are plenty of TT mfrs, causing stiffer competition in that area.

[Mike_Up]

ElBesoBlanco wrote:
I am in the Fold Up camper sub forum, am I not? I'm here to read about fold up trailers,not read about why I should own a conventional trailer because bigger is better and equates quality.

Mike Up - I lived the big end of rv'ing (actually had two 34' motorhomes - an Excalibur & a Sports Coach, owned over 10 yrs) then a 19' Jayco travel trailer (owned 6 years) and eventually downsized to the A-Frame. No sugar coating here.

Value will hold on my unit. As it stands, my pop up is nearly 3 years old and still lists for more than I purchased it for. Dollar for dollar, If I ever sell my hardsided pop up - I have no doubt it will resale far better than a larger trailer. Hard sided pop ups don't last long on the market.

My friend had a gorgeous Nash trailer with slide outs. She saw my hard side & after some thought, she decided to sell the Nash and buy one like mine. The Nash was priced extremely fair but she couldn't sell it even listing it on Craigslist. She finally decided to use as a trade at the dealer. Many dealers cannot keep up with the demand of the hard side pop ups. No problem with sales in that area.

Why in the world would you think I was discussing your folding hard side camper when I explicitly stated a Jayco Tent POP UP. Not a hard side folding camper.

Sounds like your a little defensive especially when the original post doesn't include your type of camper or your like of it. The post was ABOUT HOW EXPENSIVE actual POP UPs have gotten, not hard sided folding campers, and why they haven't been selling as well as in the past (when they were less expensive).

With your train of thought, Trailmanor and Hilo owners will also start crying foul, even though they aren't true pop ups or even tent based.

[ElBesoBlanco]

I am in the Fold Up camper sub forum, am I not? I'm here to read about fold up trailers,not read about why I should own a conventional trailer because bigger is better and equates quality.

Mike Up - I lived the big end of rv'ing (actually had two 34' motorhomes - an Excalibur & a Sports Coach, owned over 10 yrs) then a 19' Jayco travel trailer (owned 6 years) and eventually downsized to the A-Frame. No sugar coating here.

Value will hold on my unit. As it stands, my pop up is nearly 3 years old and still lists for more than I purchased it for. Dollar for dollar, If I ever sell my hardsided pop up - I have no doubt it will resale far better than a larger trailer. Hard sided pop ups don't last long on the market.

My friend had a gorgeous Nash trailer with slide outs. She saw my hard side & after some thought, she decided to sell the Nash and buy one like mine. The Nash was priced extremely fair but she couldn't sell it even listing it on Craigslist. She finally decided to use as a trade at the dealer. Many dealers cannot keep up with the demand of the hard side pop ups. No problem with sales in that area.

[Wakita46]

It also depends on what you are looking for. When I went to Oklahoma and back from Massachusetts, I stayed in a variety of places. My mental image was being outside with trees, maybe a brook, a picnic table and not at all close to my neighbor. I can stay in smaller places with my Aliner and still enjoy electricity and water hookups, even sewer some places. Reality was that the majority of places that were for TT were on grass and very close to the neighbors so that people mostly stayed inside. I also got 21 mpg so a 3 week trip for 4000 miles only cost me about $1000 counting CG fees and gas. Granted rain can be a problem but I have an awning I can set up in about 15 minutes. Not perfect but it's closer to what I am looking for.

[Mike_Up]

ElBesoBlanco wrote:
It's all relative to what some one wants. I've had a motor home and a travel trailer and now I have a hard sided pop up. The motorhome was the costliest to maintain, to find a place to store (on property or off site), costliest to operate and not surprisingly - the least expensive to purchase. We sized down to the travel trailer. It had everything and was nice but couldn't park it in the garage, towing was ok but it never felt great taking it out on my own...then I got the pop up. Awesome! It was more expensive than the travel trailer but the convenience it offered surpassed our previous rvs. With the rising gas costs, towing a lower profile unit is wonderful. Who cares it weighs as much as a traditional travel trailer - there's still a savings in gas as well as any storage cost - tuck that pop up into the garage and out of sight of the neighborhood CCR and protection from the weather.

Just because it's smaller doesn't mean it should be cheaper - that thinking should make diamond rings a dime a dozen.

When you price out all the components as appliances and the such, yes it should be cheaper. You essentially are getting the lowest end and cheapest of the cheap components for a price that is higher than the top of line.

You can try to sugar coat it, but it is what it is.

We'll just agree to disagree.

[ElBesoBlanco]

It's all relative to what some one wants. I've had a motor home and a travel trailer and now I have a hard sided pop up. The motorhome was the costliest to maintain, to find a place to store (on property or off site), costliest to operate and not surprisingly - the least expensive to purchase. We sized down to the travel trailer. It had everything and was nice but couldn't park it in the garage, towing was ok but it never felt great taking it out on my own...then I got the pop up. Awesome! It was more expensive than the travel trailer but the convenience it offered surpassed our previous rvs. With the rising gas costs, towing a lower profile unit is wonderful. Who cares it weighs as much as a traditional travel trailer - there's still a savings in gas as well as any storage cost - tuck that pop up into the garage and out of sight of the neighborhood CCR and protection from the weather.

Just because it's smaller doesn't mean it should be cheaper - that thinking should make diamond rings a dime a dozen.

[2manytoyz]

I also don't understand why the prices have increased substantially. I bought a new Popup in 1995 for $6K (Coleman Royale, with A/C, awning, etc.). In late 2005, I priced them again. A Niagara was $19K locally, ouch!

I ended up buying a 25' travel trailer instead. It was $12K without options, or $16K loaded. It also only weighed 3993 (empty, but with all options). I towed it easily for 5 years with a Nissan Xterra. I later bought a full sized truck so I could bring more toys.

Popups sure tow nice, and take up less space in storage. But the advantages of the travel trailer are hard to ignore, especially when the cost the same, or less.

[twins89]

There are a lot of folks who enjoy sleeping under the stars with the canopy vents open listening to the sounds of the wild. A lot of folks start with a used pup and move up, as we did. Now our grown kids have one and share it. Yes pain in the butt if it rains but if it doesn't set and take down is about the same. To each his/her own. However, they are getting mighty pricey!!!