Tire Advice

[uconn_jack]

Hi,

I recently had a blowout on my 2009 Skyline Layton 2970 TT (8,800 GVWR). Bought it used late last year, great shape, with Goodyears (including spare) on it that also looked in good shape and that I understand were about 3 yrs old. Tread-wise they have at least another year to them, and since I am on a bit of a budget, I could just put the current spare into use and get a new spare. However, even being Goodyears, with the blowout I'm not sure I trust the rest and would rather buy 4 new.

I know how most feel about "china-bombs", but I am on a budget so can't go with the Maxxis or Sailuns everyone raves about. Plus I'm not convinced its as big of a problem as its made out to be (my old TT had Greenballs and then HiRuns, never had a blowout until the Goodyears). So anyway, I have narrowed it down to the following tires (ST225/75R15):

Power King Towmax Vanguard - Load Index 117, Load Range E, Speed N
Trailer King RST - Load Index 117, Load Range E, Speed M
Gladiator QR25-TS - Load Index 117, Load Range E, Speed N
Carlisle Radial Trail HD - Load Index 113, Load Range D, Speed M

Now I know Carlisle is the only one of these brands that seems to be acceptable by many, and it is only about $10-15 more per tire than the others, but it does have lower load and speed specs than the others. The Carlisle specs are sufficient for my TT weight, but I am wondering if getting more load buffer with the 117/E tires might be better, despite those tires being held in less regard.

Looking forward to opinions! Thanks!

[manley]

For what it’s worth, I replaced all four of my 3-year old Endurance tires with Hercules strong guards yesterday. Having lost confidence in the GY bombs, I figured I couldn’t be any worse off with the new (Chinese) tires than with the old (American) ones. The reviews that I found on the Hercules tires and brand were decent. We will see as time will tell.

[StirCrazy]

JIMNLIN wrote:

the tread on a St tire is designed to allow it to scuff sideways easier, as in when you a sharp 90 degree or more turn when backing into a site.

ST tires come with all styles of tread designs (AT types....AS types....and rib type tread patterns) so there is no design attempt for easier side scrubbing.

Rubber treading compounds (hard or soft) has much to do with any tires side slip abilities.

I can't agree with you there, I have been looking at st vs lt tires for 4 years now trying to decide which would be better for my 5th wheel. yes, there are different tread patterns, but the one common Theam of them is the lack of aggressive outside lugs which bite in and resist side movement like LT tires have. this enables ST tires to handle more lateral movment without increased resistance.

plus, another plus for the st tire is they are generally made of different rubber compounds that make them stronger than the equivalent LT tire based on a simular volume of air. Another side benefit of these is they generaly have a lower rolling resistance which equates to a fraction better fuel milage.

the other thing I have found also is to switch to a LT tire the closest thing in size to what I now have (235/80R16 ST) is a 235/85R16 . by switching to this I lose 500lbs (aprox) of capacity per tire.

Part of the biggest issue is dealers generaly put the cheapest tires on the rv's they can get so the weight of the rv is just covered by the tires and sometimes it is less as they assume the hitch weight as not being a load on the tires in some cases. for instance, my 5th wheel came with 10 ply loadmax tires so what I have found the best thing to do would be to just stay the same size in a st tire but go up to a 12ply or even a 14 ply if your rims can handle the higher air pressure requirements. I know a lot of people go to 14 ply then just run them at 90 which is probably fine, but they will run hotter than if they were at 110. When they design LT tires, they have less stiff sidewall and softer compounds, so they handle impacts from road hazards better (ie. potholes) and don't transfer it to the vehicle as much. This is great for a truck, but the downside is less carrying capacity for the same size of tires and more flexible side walls, and better tread grip. When combined with the more agressive tread patterens (usually the addition of shoulder lugs and deeper tread and such) this causes them to grip harder in tight turns which increases the lateral stresses on the belt layers.

the main issue is instead of looking at quality ST tires we are usually talking about switching from China bombs to LT, which ya, that is probably an improvement, but we should really be looking at actually weighing our setups (because we all know how accurate that tally plate is 😉 ) and going with a quality ST tire that has the extra carrying capacity to cover our rigs and some breathing room

[Huntindog]

See my post on page 2.

[Thermoguy]

The reason I ask is because when I was looking to buy my last set of tires I asked a couple of different shops about LT vs ST. Everyone said buy ST for a trailer, but when questioned, they all admitted that ST tires are not tested the same as a vehicle tire. They don't have the same standards and don't have to perform like a vehicle tire. Since you don't ride in the trailer, you don't have the ride experience that you expect in a car or truck. Fortunately, my trailers fall within the weight range that I can use an LT tire and that is what I choose. But, just thought since this is such a controversial topic on these threads, to ask, how are they tested?

[ktmrfs]

Thermoguy wrote:
I'm curious - has anyone seen or heard of any manufacturing testing for ST tires? I have seen tires tests for LT, passenger, performance, etc, But what about ST tires? There are google reviews, that is not what I mean. What manufacturer actually tests ST tires and what standards do they have to meet?

ST tires, just like car and LT tires have federal motor vehicle standards they must meet. so the mfg is required to test to those requirements. Now for an ST tire, the test is not near as stringent as a passenger car tire.

Will a mfg publish results of the test? Highly unlikely. They just file them with the required federal agency.

In addition, tires like the goodyear endurance have a speed rating well above and ST tire (85mph IIRC) and there are federal standards and testing to meet those requirements.

Now as far as independent tire reviews, haven't seen any. And I've never seen an independent review of any tire where they actually test them to the load, speed rating, etc. that they must meet.

Occasionally independent tests will try to test the tire wear vs. tire wear rating, but that's about it.

[Grit_dog]

You guys are just insufferable with this tire thing…..
Guy could literally get 12,800lbs capacity worth of 15” tires if he wants for a trailer that most likely has 8klbs or less on the axles.
I don’t discount the additional durability and tire life available by upsizing to 16s. But it’s kind of like wearing your parka, furry middens, and touque to go into the beer cave at the corner store….lol.

[Thermoguy]

I'm curious - has anyone seen or heard of any manufacturing testing for ST tires? I have seen tires tests for LT, passenger, performance, etc, But what about ST tires? There are google reviews, that is not what I mean. What manufacturer actually tests ST tires and what standards do they have to meet?

[JIMNLIN]

On the TT I first made the jump from STs to LTs I went from 15" rims to 16", There are a ton of great LT tires in the 16" wheel size.

Good choice for long term.... hi miles running interstates service especially if the trailer has 15" 6 lug 5.2k axles.
As with any upgrade with a larger diameter tire on a trailer, measurements will be needed for proper clearance.

My last two rv trailers and any non rv trailers with 6 lug wheels /5200 lb axles, I put in service, I sold the 15" tires/wheels on CL and went with 16' trailer wheels and LT tires recommended (email or 1-800) by the tire mfg for trailer use.

Most rv trailer owners can get by with a better quality ST tire like the Endurance...Providers...Carlisle HD.

[Huntindog]

Grit dog wrote:

Huntindog wrote:

Grit dog wrote:
Well I think there’s one mfg making a 15” LT tire that is marginally up there with the heavy duty STs.
This is like one of those bad reccomendations that just doesn’t go away….

On the TT I first made the jump from STs to LTs I went from 15" rims to 16", There are a ton of great LT tires in the 16" wheel size.

So you’re blindly telling someone to upgrade to 16” wheels, that while wholly unnecessary, also may not fit?
Yup U needz LT tires at any cost…..lol.
Cmon man.

On a trailer where he could have 11,000lb + E load ST tire cap or over 12klb load cap with F load 15s and he’s got maybe at most 8klbs on the axles?

Yeah that makes sense….

No it doesn’t.

Slow your roll. I will not stand for your sarcastic bullying.

I have owned many more sets of ST tires than LT tires. That is because I once believed all of the ST claims, so gave them too many chances.I changed brands, sizes, and LRs.I actually bought my first replacement rims in order to go with a larger size and higher LR ST tire.. That combination lasted about 50 miles. That was the last straw fo me. DW was not happy at all. We had our dogs with us on the way to a trial. It was 110 out and I'm changing a tire. The asphalt was so hot I had to use the trucks floor mats to keep from getting burned. After the ordeal, DW wanted to know what else could be done. I told her that a few people were saying that LT tires were better. She said "Then get them"I told her it would be expensive. We would need 16" 6 lug rims, 6 lug drums and a small lift for clearance.. She said "Do it. We have a 5000 mile round trip to the AKC Brittany National Championships in which 3 of our dogs had qualified to run in. and we need to stop the tire issues." That was in 2006.We have not had a tire issue since.

[Huntindog]

aftermath wrote:
I think the "scuffing" comment has to do with the design of the sidewalls not the tread. Because of the lateral pressure put on trailer tires as they are moved into parking situations the ST tire has a stronger sidewall than regular tires.

Actually the opposite is true. Some claims are that STs have thicker cords, but fewer layers in order to run cooler. The same is stated for the shallower tread depth.There has always been a lot of "marketing" claims for ST tires. That is just some of them. It is not in the test...But anyone that has done a hands on of the two types of tires can tell you that the LT has stronger sidewalls.
If you look carefully at the ST construction claims you will see that they have one thing in common. They all make the tire cheaper to manufacture.

[ktmrfs]

IMHO the best thing one can do to help avoid blowouts on a TT is to install a TPMS. One a trailer you have NO clue a tire has suffered a puncture and is slowly deflating.... Until you hear the explosion.

Myself and several friends all have TPMS systems, each of us has picked up a nail or similar and suffered a slow loss of pressure which the TPMS system caught BEFORE we had a blowout.

In 100K + miles of towing I've yet to have a tire failure, Others that travel with me have anywhere from 50K+ miles on up with no failures, thanks to a TPMS.

I've run Maxxis, Towmax and now Goodyear endurance tires.

[time2roll]

manley wrote:
To heck with the GY Endurance. I just had a failure today, on 3-year old Endurances. Tread separation, with damage to the trailer. Tire never lost pressure. Actually looks like a retread that came off. Tires were properly inflated at 80 PSI. ??

Wow. While I would still trust the Endurance over most anything else this is undoubtedly frustrating.

Consider Carlisle Radial Trail ST as the second choice.

https://www.carlislebrandtires.com/our-products/product-detail/radial-trail-hd/

I feel for you. I had a similar separation on the much loved MAXXIS.
My Endurance are going great six years in.

Also consider taking the tire in for warranty replacement. Good for a spare at least.

[aftermath]

I think the "scuffing" comment has to do with the design of the sidewalls not the tread. Because of the lateral pressure put on trailer tires as they are moved into parking situations the ST tire has a stronger sidewall than regular tires.

[Grit_dog]

Huntindog wrote:

Grit dog wrote:
Well I think there’s one mfg making a 15” LT tire that is marginally up there with the heavy duty STs.
This is like one of those bad reccomendations that just doesn’t go away….

On the TT I first made the jump from STs to LTs I went from 15" rims to 16", There are a ton of great LT tires in the 16" wheel size.

So you’re blindly telling someone to upgrade to 16” wheels, that while wholly unnecessary, also may not fit?
Yup U needz LT tires at any cost…..lol.
Cmon man.

On a trailer where he could have 11,000lb + E load ST tire cap or over 12klb load cap with F load 15s and he’s got maybe at most 8klbs on the axles?

Yeah that makes sense….

No it doesn’t.

[JIMNLIN]

the tread on a St tire is designed to allow it to scuff sideways easier, as in when you a sharp 90 degree or more turn when backing into a site.

ST tires come with all styles of tread designs (AT types....AS types....and rib type tread patterns) so there is no design attempt for easier side scrubbing.

Rubber treading compounds (hard or soft) has much to do with any tires side slip abilities.