Towing with Express 3500 15 pass

[NCMODELA]

Hi everyone. We have been looking for a new tow vehicle. With 4 young kids we were looking at a suburban 2500 but recently drove a 15 passenger express 3500 and it wasn't as bad as I thought it was going to be. The nice thing about the van is we can remove the rear seat or two and still have enough room for kids and plenty of cargo room. They come pretty inexpensive too compared to sub 2500's.

The only thing that is bothering me is the previous reports of van rollover rates when fully loaded or towing a trailer. I noticed that the express has an exteneded wheelbase with the same overhang as the 12 passenger model. Unlike the fords or dodges which tack the extra back behind the axle. Does this make a difference? Has anyone towed with one of these?

Thanks

[NCMODELA]

That is why we are looking. We have four kids, 10, 8, 4, 2 and two dogs. I have captians chairs in the middle of the sub so I only have one extra seat. My GCW is 12780 of 13000. 6500 lb trailer. The sub handles it well but it definitely feels like its back there. We took a 15 passenger van on a mission trip one and the kids loved the fact that they have their own row, didn't hear a peep out of them for 9.5 hrs. the 15 and 12 passengers cost the same, its just longer, I figured I could take out the two or one rear seat have a ton of storage room back there. If it got the same mileage as the one I have now then thats even better. Being in NC I don't necessarily need 4x4 but did want to go beach driving on the outer banks and will be in the mountians in the winter.

[BenK]

A +9K to +10K GVWR, 15 seat passenger van was my choice before ordering my Suburban in
my sig....but no OEM offers a 4x4 van, so ordered the Sub

Have been watching Bryan's 4x4 van with great interest, but I keep all of my vehicles
for decades...not going to buy anything for a while

Plan was to order the full up seating and take out a row or two of the rear
rows. HUGE space back there and can put back the seating if required
for 'that' event...

I think a van is the best deal out there...as long as the extra length is okay
for you. They are not much longer than my Sub, but their wheel base is way longer

Really, if MPG is that important, than buy a half ton, but know it will NOT
have the 'actual' tow capacity you need

[Roger10378]

Check with your DMV on licensing requirements. In some states a 15 passenger is considered a bus and requires the appropriate license.

[ktosv]

NCMODELA wrote:
I've read about the g80 option locker. Is that common on these vans?

In my searching, I wasn't able to find one equipped with the G80. I made other things like the power mirrors and Onstar a priority knowing that I could have a G80 or other locker/limited slip added if I wanted to. About the only time the G80 would have come in handy was doing some two tracking and we came across some deep sand. Other than that I haven't been in a situation where it was necessary.

[APT]

Our prior tow vehicle was a 2003 F-150 5.4L. 12-13mpg non towing, 15-16mpg highway, 6.5-8mpg towing the same TT. I wanted to replace it with an Ecoboost F-150, but my wife wanted 3 rows of seats. Of course she won! If Ford offered the same Ecoboost in 2012 Expy, we'd probably have that instead. The half ton Burb wasn't enough of upgrade in performance and payload from what we had. The 3/4 ton up front costs are dirt cheap, like less than $1000 for the same equipment on a half ton. In fact, the 20" wheels on the half ton cost more than $1000! Obviously, there are other compromises in now towing ride/handling and fuel.

We have taken our Suburban on a few non towing trips. 2650 miles Michigan to Orlando and back wasn't great, winter time, high speeds, and not broken in engine. We got 16mpg down, 14mpg back. At 20k miles we took a trip 1000 mile in warmer weather, averaged 17.7mpg. One camping trip we took a long day trip from campsite to Michigan's Northern Peninsula and got 20mpg over 250 miles, but at double nickle speeds. Last Christmas we drove to South Carolina about 2000 miles round trip and got 17mpg. Speed and weather conditions vary, but just as I expected, about 1mpg lower than ktosv in all conditions. 13mpg winter, 14mpg summmer, 17-18mpg highway, 8mpg towing at 65-70mph. I am really impressed with the 6.0L and 6-spd combination of power/capability and fuel usage. The 3/4 ton Suburban (maybe vans too) have EPA fuel economy ratings so my Monroney sticker said 10 city, 15mpg highway. This is one of the rare vehicles that we exceed the EPA ratings, and by a fair amount.

G80 locker is something I recommend. It is inexpensive option new and very effective and durable. It is very common (about 80% production rate) on the SUVs and pickups, but I'm not sure the vans. As you shop specific vehicles, GM makes the options fairly easy to determine. There is a sticker in the glove box with a list of RPOs. G80 would be the RPO code for the locker. All the other RPOs can be searched on the internet. Plenty of GM RPO decoder web sites.

Before we bought the new Suburban, I was looking for used 2004-2006 8.1L models. I found this site extremely helpful due to my "special needs" AKA very specific option requirements. The reports used to be free for 5 per day, but very interesting statistics on number built per year for specific options. Anyway, might be worth $25 as you shop.

2010+ with the 6.0L/6-spd only. There are 4.8L in 3/4 and 1-ton vans mated to a 4-spd trans. Don't bother with them. Not built for RV towing IMHO. And as you say, you'll pay a lot less for the van than a less capable SUV!

[NCMODELA]

We were looking at 2013 models...seems like I can get a low mileage one for around 22000. Compared to a sub which is a lot more. I've read about the g80 option locker. Is that common on these vans?

[ktosv]

NCMODELA wrote:
What would an approximate mpg be for these unloaded?

My wife gets 15mpg in the summer and about 14mpg in the winter on a daily basis. This is a mix of city/country driving. On the highway I have seen anything from 17-19mpg dependent on load, conditions and ethanol content of the fuel.

NCMODELA wrote:
The only thing that is bothering me is the previous reports of van rollover rates when fully loaded or towing a trailer. I noticed that the express has an exteneded wheelbase with the same overhang as the 12 passenger model. Unlike the fords or dodges which tack the extra back behind the axle. Does this make a difference? Has anyone towed with one of these?

What model year are you looking at? When I shopped almost three years ago I made sure that I was looking at vans only with stability control and I also wanted the 6 speed, which meant 2010 or newer. I also like the fact that the vans have side curtain airbags, all though they are only for the front three rows in the 12 passenger and only the first four rows in the 15 passenger(?).

Fortunately, I haven't had to test the stability control while towing or really any other time. I can tell you that with the winter we had last year I was very impressed with our van. The traction control works well and with both that and stability control on it was pretty much impossible to even slightly fish tail the van. I would have to imagine that these would work just as well on the 15 passenger model.

FYI...this past labor day I weighed our van. With seven of us, two dogs, two mountain bikes and a bunch of other stuff it weighed in at 7400# leaving me 2200# of payload capacity.

[Tystevens]

Can't speak for APT, but our '05 Suburban (5.3/4 spd/4.10) was in the 17-18 range on the freeway. I don't think it ever broke 19 mpg, even on slower 2-lane road trips. Our '10 Suburban (5.3/6 spd/3.42) is always above 19 mpg on a freeway trip, and has done as well as 21.5 mpg under the right circumstances.

[NCMODELA]

Are you saying your 1500 burb got less than 18 hwy? That the 6.0 6spd does better than the 5.3 3.73 4spd.

[APT]

Every report I have read of late model GM vans with 6-spd owners get about 1mpg better than we do unloaded. I have no complaints about our Suburban. It is our main family vehicle and wife's daily driver replacing a minivan. We get about 14mpg mixed roads, 18mpg highway non-towing, which is about 15% less fuel than the half ton it replaced while offering far more power. The vans are reporting slightly higher, maybe 2WD, maybe the 3.42.... We put 21k miles our first year, and scaled back as a 3rd vehicle for about a year, so we are at 50k miles in 3 years. These 6.0L/6-spds are dead reliable.

[NCMODELA]

Thank you guys for the help...APT what do you mean the vans use less fuel than the subs? I figured it would be the same. What would an approximate mpg be for these unloaded?

Thanks
Bill

[mikegt4]

I tow with a 1997 Dodge B3500 van, std body length and WB. As has been said a van can be a great tow vehicle especially with a large family. Many if not most of the van crash stories can be blamed on overloading or miss loading. All of that volume is enticing one to to fill it up with sometimes dire consequences. It is somewhat like getting a load of gravel equaling the load capacity in your dump trailer and seeing that it is only 12" high and your sidewalls are 3 feet, you tend to load more.

BTW, I added a rear sway bar off of a Ford dually pickup to my Dodge, wow what a difference it made in handling and stability.

[carringb]

Vans actually have a lower rollover risk that most other large vehicles. The big deal is that when one is in a collision, there is more injuries likely due to the number of people they seat, and the very low seatbelt use rates in full size vans.







Plus, electronic stability control has also gone a long ways helping drivers maintain control.

Anyways.... The Express is fine for a tow vehicle up to its limits. You'll actually run into the GCWR first (16,000) vs running into GVWR limits like most SUVs. If you load up that van, that effectively limits you to about 7500-8000 actual trailer weight. Also, budget for Bilstein shocks. The OEM Express shocks are garbage.

If you want to tow a heavier trailer, you'll have to try to scoop up one of the last Ford E350 V10 vans. There's also good mini-bus options available like Turtle Top VanTerra which give you more seating options, and can be ordered on the E450 chassis which will bump the GCWR up to 22,000 pounds and bump payload up to the 3-ton range.

[blt2ski]

A van would have been first choice to tow with with my family of 6. BUT, alas, I had a crew cab pickup....I could use it at work, the van not so well. Hence decision. BUT Ex had a smaller Astro van we used to get the family around otherwise. Luved the thing. Boyz in back seat, Girlz in front seat, space between them to set books, toyz etc. More head room too.

Only real issue with a van, and that is aftermarket fixable, is 4wd. Nice since we spent more time in the RV trailer from December to April using it as a ski hut at local ski area's for the weekend. $wd was nice on the bad road days, even if I had to legally speaking, chain up. Chains on rear axle, front axel also driving, made for better handling going up, and less issues with the front tires locking up even tho I had 4wabs.

If you mostly summer camp, or way off road, a G80 optioned GM van would work well for most trailers, as long as you remember that you may need in reality, a 3500 van from a payload need standpoint, not a 2500. My family was in the 1200-1300 lb range when I had 4 adult size teens, add in HW in the 700-1400 lbs range depending upon trailer size, a few other odds and ends in the van, you need 2500-3000 lbs of payload! many 25's in passenger config do not have that unless a 35 series is ordered.

Marty

[FireGuard]

I had a 2005 Ford E350 12 pax van with V10 and 5 sp Torqueshift to tow my 21' TH.
I loved that van. Super practical, easy to drive and park and like you said, by removing seats you can carry a lot of stuff.
It had about 80k miles and I bought it for $10k OTD.
Wish I had it back.
Wasn't a real chick magnet, but I'm getting too old to care, LOL
I think the Ford 15 pax vans had the rollover issues. As someone stated I think it was more the drivers and weight. How many pax vans do you see flying by you filled with a bunch of kids and an inexperienced kid driving it?