Trailer construction quality question?

[jungleexplorer]

Okay. I just bought a 2005 Kodiak 19FL. I am actually not sure who built it. It says "Kodiak by Scamper" on the side, but it says "Thor Industries/Dutchmen" on the manufacturers plate. Anyway, my question not about this; it's about the difference in quality of construction from one manufacturer to another.

When I was looking for a trailer to buy and talking to a RV salesmen, and I said something to the extent of, "Hey! You have this Pioneer priced $3000 more then a similar same year model Jayco I saw at another dealer", they would come back with; "Jayco is nothing but a tin can on wheels. This Pioneer is so much better built then that Jayco".

Okay, so what is the truth? Is there a huge difference in quality from one manufacturer to another?

Take my 2005 Kodiak 19FL. It's UVW (or dry) weight is about 3800 pounds. According to this BROCHURE I found, it is an Ultra Lite. Now compare it to a 2005 Jayco Jay feather 19H which I think is the same length. The Jayco is listed on the NADA as weighing 3140 pounds UVW, over 600 pounds lighter then the Kodiak.

So my question is, since these are both supposed to be "Ultra Lites" and one weighs over 600 pounds more then the other, does this mean the Kodiak is built better then the Jayco?

[jungleexplorer]

rbpru wrote:
I guess if to have the right floor plan and a TV that can tow it you are set. Then the rest is the luck of the draw.

We would like to think that a newer TT would be an improvement over one made 15 or 20 years ago.

I hope you have many long years of service. Keep in touch and let us know.

Well, speaking of my TV, I took my Silverado 1500 into my mechanic today to look get a new state inspection and I asked him what he thought about me towing a 5000 pond TT. He said that it would stress the trans pretty hard. So now I am considering trading MY TV for a 3/4 ton Diesel of some kind, but I need help choosing. I am going to start another thread for this question though. I know how people feel about their trucks and I will be stepping in it but I hope everyone can be friendly and adults about it. I personally have no brand loyalty. I am only loyal to my pocketbook.

[rbpru]

I guess if to have the right floor plan and a TV that can tow it you are set. Then the rest is the luck of the draw.

We would like to think that a newer TT would be an improvement over one made 15 or 20 years ago.

I hope you have many long years of service. Keep in touch and let us know.

[jungleexplorer]

rbpru wrote:
As far as I can tell most trailer manufacturers use the same major components from just a couple of sources. If you are looking for a cost competitive model that is head and shoulders above the next you probably will not find one.

From what I have seen there is more difference between a company’s low end models with few amenities and trim and their high end models with all the trimmings; than there is between manufacturer’s models in the same price range.

When you have the same components, work force, and construction techniques between companies there is not a lot of room for cost variance. Stick and tin, fiberglass or the various composites all have advantages and disadvantages.

Contrary to popular belief RV are not rat traps held together with bubble gum and angle dust. They are designed to be hauled down the road at high speed, in wind, rain, and heat and cold. Try that with your house. They are however pounded out as quick as possible with little concern for let’s say old world craftsmanship; from materials purchase from the cheapest bidder.

I am really not looking for anything but information. I already bought a trailer and I like it very much except for the bedding situation. This is the first trailer I have personally owned, not the first trailer I have used. When I was just 5 years old my family (5 people) lived in a 1960 something 19ft Shasta that we drug all over the country from Florida to Michigan and down to Guatamala and back. It's life ended when the front axle of our truck broke in half at 60MPH just outside of Pairis, Texas on highway 82. Are truck flipped end over end and the Shasta rolled 6 times and came to rest out in a cow pasture. It was severally damaged, but still towable and still in one piece. Our truck on the other hand was destroyed and we all only survived it because of God's protection.

My dad owns a 1996 Fleetwood Wilderness 29S. He bought it used in 2001 and it has been to Alaska and back, and then up to the Northwest Territories of Canada, and then all over NWT all the way up to Inuvik on gravel roads where it spent three year on the shore of the Arctic Ocean. In 2008 it came back to Texas where I lived in it for two years and went through multiple hail storms with hail up to baseball size, and wind storms with wind in excess of 80MPH, after which my sister lived in it for a year and now I am fixing it up for my son and his fiance to live in after they are married (they are both in collage and need to save money). It is beat to pieces on the outside but everything still works and has never had water leak. The only thing that we have had to replace on it was the rooftop AC, but that was only because I backed it into a carport that was about 2 inches too short and my back up guide got distracted and let me run into the carport and crush the AC unit.

I really don't know how you could ask for better quality then that Wilderness. If my Kodiak is only half as good as it, it will be all I need for the light service I require from it.

[rbpru]

As far as I can tell most trailer manufacturers use the same major components from just a couple of sources. If you are looking for a cost competitive model that is head and shoulders above the next you probably will not find one.

From what I have seen there is more difference between a company’s low end models with few amenities and trim and their high end models with all the trimmings; than there is between manufacturer’s models in the same price range.

When you have the same components, work force, and construction techniques between companies there is not a lot of room for cost variance. Stick and tin, fiberglass or the various composites all have advantages and disadvantages.

Contrary to popular belief RV are not rat traps held together with bubble gum and angle dust. They are designed to be hauled down the road at high speed, in wind, rain, and heat and cold. Try that with your house. They are however pounded out as quick as possible with little concern for let’s say old world craftsmanship; from materials purchase from the cheapest bidder.

[westend]

Sorry, senior moment with that statement in my post, should have read, "Your Kodiak has Torflex axles and that, IMO, is an upgrade...".

For fiberglass sided trailers, I would suggest marine products, they have a long history of dealing with fiberglass and gel coat. Regular car products will work also (but maybe not as well).

[jungleexplorer]

Well, just got through washing my trailer. It cleaned off nicely. There is some mildew that would not come off in some areas like around windows and doors. What is the best way to clean these areas? I was thinking a bleach and water solution.

Also, I am assuming that I need to wax it. Can I use plain car wax on it, or is there special wax for this type of trailer (some type of fiberglass I assume). I washed it with some RV
wash and wax liquid that I bought at walmart. I also bought a can of RV silicon spray that I thought would be great to cover the front of the trailer with to reduce wind drag. That is about all they had at walmart for RVs last night so I got it to start off with. I am sure there is better stuff.

[jungleexplorer]

Doug33 wrote:
I've never owned one, but I find it ironic that the salesman tried to steer you away from a Jayco, yet many people here on this forum have said their Jaycos are some of the best built TTs.

I don't think he was trying to steer me away from Jayco, it was just part of what I call the "Buyer vs Salesman Ballet". It is the salesman's job to convince a seller that their trade in is not worth what the salesman knows it is worth and then try to convince a buyer of the same trailer that it is worth more then he knows it is worth. A salesman employs several tools in is effort to achieve this goal. His first tool is try to take advantage of a person's ignorance. If he finds that a person is educated, he must then resort to posturing, in which he tries to convince the person that he is far more knowledgeable then you are so that you will stop leaning on your own experience and knowledge and trust what he says. He has to establish this dominance in the sales relationship so he can convince a buyer that the product he is selling is worth way more then it is worth. Once I buyer is convinced of the extreme value of a product, he then can employ his second tool, which is to apply to the person's greed. He does this by doing what is called a price drop to make the person feel like they are getting an exceptional deal. He then employs another tool called urgency, in which he pressures the buyer to close the deal quickly or he will lose it.

Now, the buyers part of the dance is to disarm the salesman of his tools. He must do his research before walking in the door. He must know the value of what he wants and have evidence of this value to counter the salesman's attempts to jack the value up. He must impress upon the salesman that he knows what he is talking about and will never allow the salesman to establish the dominance in the sales relationship. The buyer must use the tool of competition to put the salesman in position of competing with his competitors. The buyer must not demonstrate an emotional over eagerness to own a product or the salesman will take advantage that to gain dominance. The buyer needs to use the same tool of greed to gain dominance in the relationship, buy implying that he has other options he is considering that he likes more and that he will only be convinced to buy if the price is good enough to sway him away from the competition. The seller must be convinced at all times that the buyer is one step away from walking out the door and taking his cash with him.

The bottom line is that it is a dance in which the buyer and the seller are both trying to take the lead in. For the buyer, the goal is, to achieve a good deal. Of course, the seller wants to make as much money as possible. If performed properly, the buyer will get what he wants at a good price and the seller will make a decent commission.

[Doug33]

I've never owned one, but I find it ironic that the salesman tried to steer you away from a Jayco, yet many people here on this forum have said their Jaycos are some of the best built TTs.

[BarneyS]

You might check out the RV Consumer Group site.
Barney

[rbtglove]

You might look at this site for information - http://www.rv-coach.com/RV/manufacturers/survey/rate_your_rv_results.html. Quality means different things to different buyers based on their needs, wants and opinions. Things like design, features, cost, weight, looks, build conformance and other things very greatly. My veiw is that I buy what I think we serve our my purpose at a cost I am willing to pay.

[jungleexplorer]

westend wrote:
The difference in price is probably reflecting the initial retail price and has little to do with quality. Stay on the Forum a bit and you'll see that folks have just about as many problems between different brands and between different ages of trailers.
There are a few brands that hold value better like Airstream, Avion, Scamp, Oliver, and some of the other fiberglass trailers. That has to do with the exterior skin and perceived longevity more than anything.
Your Keystone has Torflex axles and that, IMO, is an upgrade to conventional springs. Enjoy what you have, you got a fairly good deal. Make sure your roof penetrations, windows, and corner trims are sealed and you'll get a lot of use out of your Keystone.

Keystone? I thought my trailer was a Kodiak series of Skamper by Thor Industries. Anyway, the brochure says that it has "Torsion “independent suspension” axles" and "Ultra-Lube hubs".

[westend]

The difference in price is probably reflecting the initial retail price and has little to do with quality. Stay on the Forum a bit and you'll see that folks have just about as many problems between different brands and between different ages of trailers.
There are a few brands that hold value better like Airstream, Avion, Scamp, Oliver, and some of the other fiberglass trailers. That has to do with the exterior skin and perceived longevity more than anything.
Your Keystone has Torflex axles and that, IMO, is an upgrade to conventional springs. Enjoy what you have, you got a fairly good deal. Make sure your roof penetrations, windows, and corner trims are sealed and you'll get a lot of use out of your Keystone.

[jungleexplorer]

I for got where I was going with that last post. My point was this. My 2005 Kodiak has a value of $5,900 and the 2007 model (same length) of Pioneer that that guy was trying to sell my has a bluebook value of $5,800.

So all of these things got me to thinking. Why would a trailer that is the same size but 2 years older be valued more then one that is 2 years younger? Also, when I mentioned the Jayco and the Skyline, the guy made the quality argument, but when I mentioned the Kodiak, he did not try to convince me that the Pioneer was better quality.

I realize that quality is in the eye of the beholder, but no one in their right mind would try to convince you that a Ford is better the a Mercedes Benz. I was just wondering if there were similar differences in construction quality in trailer manufacturers?

[jungleexplorer]

rmnpcolorado wrote:
I find it interesting that you're asking people on an RV forum what they think of two manufacturers - my question back to you is what did YOU think of the two different manufacturers' products? You're the one that looked at both of them, how did YOU think they the two models compared in build quality? If you looked both over thoroughly, it should be fairly obvious the differences, even in used trailers. I myself have a different opinion than what you came back with as I happen to like Jaycos. Having said that, I know there are other units that are built better than Jayco, and my next trailer will probably be a different brand that I like the build quality better on (currently eyeing up the Lance line, even though we have a dealer nowhere near us!).

To me it's about what YOUR opinion is of the manufacturer and trailer you're looking at (because each is built different individually as well). And if you bought used, it gets even more interesting.

Well actually, I never looked physically at Jayco while trying to find a trailer for me. I was talking with a salesman about a 2007 20FT Pioneer he was trying to convince me was worth $4000 over bluebook and how the in the current market bluebook values are not even relative. I then told him about the 2013 16ft mint condition Jayco Jay flight I had found for my parents earlier this month for $8900 and he went off on a tangent about how Jaycos were nothing but tin cans on wheels and how was comparing apples to oranges and how he could go all day about the quality differences between the Pioneer we was trying to sale and the Jayco I bought for several thousand under bluebook. I then told him about a 2011 Skyline Mountain View 196 that a competitor had listed for $9,900 (less then what he wanted for the 2007 Pioneer and he said about the same thing. He then called me a very "Shrewed" RV buyer that was uniformed. I told him that if he insinuated one more time that I was ignorant, I was walking out the door. When I told him I had found this Kodiak for $5,700, he just threw his hands up in the air and gave up trying to sale me that Pioneer for 2007 $10,000. I offered him bluebook plus 10% ($6,500) and he would not take it, so I walked out the door and bought this Kodiak. I think I gave him a headache. LOL!