TT with easy bike access

[CptSydor]

My first post here. I'm hoping to maybe post some current thoughts and see what people have to say, maybe some alternatives.

Just over a year ago, my partner and I bought our first TT. A small Dutchman T@da that we pull with our 2013 Escape 2.0 Ecoboost with tow package. We spend lots of time traveling to bike races and most of the time camping is available at the event. So after staying in a friends motorhome during a race and realizing how much better it was than tenting or getting hotels, sometimes relatively far away, I spent a lot of time searching and got lucky to find the t@da just down the street, which was exactly what we were looking for (small, light, fully enclosed, full bed and wet bath).

We ended up spending 10+ weekends in the trailer, plus a 2 week trip around the easy coast of Canada/US visiting family and biking. We absolutely loved our time away and being on the road.

Over the past 4-5 months, we've both realized we are looking to mix up life and simplify. We really would love to be on the road full-time. The idea of being able to winter down Arizona/California where we can bike in warm weather, then during the spring/fall/summer months target other prime biking destinations more north for a few weeks at a time is pretty much a dream. Plus spending more significant time in the vicinity aging parents who are 2500 km from each other would be great.

We are mid 30's and have the ability to be mobile with work, including taking 4 months off per year. (Dec/Jan/Feb/March). The other months we'd need to be back in Canada for work, but anywhere, and would likely target Vancouver island for Oct/Nov, April would likely be the tough month as we'd probably want to be around Eastern Canada. Still not sure how logistically easy that would be, any experience would be appreciated. We also have an easy ability to give this a shot for 1 year with minimal repercussions if we want to step back into our current life.

Here comes what I'm really trying to work out. And while compromise will absolutely need to happen, any ideas people have would be great.

We are cyclists. We currently have a basement full of bikes. Between the two of us, there are 10+ that we ride regularly. At best we could get down to a total of 4, but would love to have 6. This is really our only indulgence/excessiveness in life as it's our passion (and the outdoors in general).

I'm currently trying to figure out the best RV/Vehicle for us. Here are some considerations.

- Price. Not a huge investment upfront for a variety of reasons. We generally want to be frugal to ensure we can continue to cut down on things like work hours, responsibility as we get older. $50,000 would ideally be the cost of TV + RV.

- We have to be able to carry bikes with easy access. Preference is in their own unique space. We don't want to be living onto, or even see them. Security is important, they are not $500 bikes.

Here are some options that are crossing my mind:

1) Toyhauler. Problem with most toyhaulers is they are designed for quads/motorcycles and are pretty large. For an RV we'd like to live full-time in, we'd be looking at 28ft+, which generally have 10ft-12 garages and take up lots of prime living space. I definitely would want an enclosed garage area, preferably with separate entrance, not the ramp, as we really don't want to be pulling that up and down each time we go out. I'd really want an RV with at minimum a couch and a dinette (a chair would be a nice bonus) so that we have some space to spread out and work comfortably. Again, most large toyhauler 28-32 ft seem to have only a combo dining/couch, which would be tough if we are both working within the trailer and it's nice to vary where you are sitting.

2) Get a TT and keep the bikes in the back of the truck with a secure cap. This opens lots of living space in the RV if we went 28-32 ft and I could easily get everything I wanted (even down to 26-27 ft). Unfortunately access to bikes in the back of a truck is not great at all, plus if I need to work on them, it has to be done outside. In theory, something like Sprinter type vehicle would be cool, standing height to set up a 'bike shop', however they have relatively low tow capacities (5000-7500 lbs). The other issue with a Sprinter type van, or even a cargo van is that they don't come factory as 4x4 (or AWD). This is something that is pretty important to me as I do like to get off the beaten path. It seems like every time I have a vehicle that isn't at least AWD, I get myself in trouble. Yes I could be better, but that's no fun.

3) Not super interested in a 5th wheel as I'd like to have an enclosed TV for transporting bikes from campgrounds securely.

4) Obviously we a could just go bigger in an RV. We are however pretty minimalistic in nature (except the bikes) and would like to keep it as 'small' as possible. It seems once you get start getting 31+ft, the trailers jump up in price a fair amount, plus at that point you are automatically looking at HD truck, which add costs.

Ideally I'd like to stick with a 1/2 tonne truck, but I'm pretty convinced that's not going to happen.

In saying all that. I think the best option I've seen right now would be a Keystone Outback 310TB (or the 28RS a couple model years old). I think that is beyond the limit of most average 1/2 tonnes, especially given we would be full timing?

Shipping Weight 7427
Carrying Capacity 1573
Hitch 785

If you managed to read through all this. And have any cool idea's, or advice, experience, errors to correct, please contribute.

Really trying to figure out where to compromise. Financially, living space, ease of access to bikes, 4x4 vehicle.

[CptSydor]

patperry2766 wrote:
check rvtrader.com for used in your area...you will probably save a good chunk of money. Let somebody else take the depreciation hit because more than likely, it has spent more time in the driveway than anywhere else.

I have looked at Orbea, Marin, Trek, Specialized, Cannondale, GT & Diamondback. I want something with at least Shimano's Alivio brand derailers, but would really prefer Deore or XT, 29". I figure I'm gonna be at least $900-1000 if I can find a closeout on a last year's model.

Thanks for your input

Thanks, I definitely plan on buying used for the TT.

You should easily find a bike with Deore for that price, which I think is a great entry point for a good quality MTB that can handle most anything. You won't get up to XT at that price point unless you find some very, very good closeouts, or used. SLX is in between Deore and XT so keep that in mind when you are looking.

[gmw_photos]

I didn't read every word of each reply, but if not mentioned yet, how about a used full size one ton van ? In a Ford, that would be a E350. Secure indoor storage for lots of bikes, and plenty of tow capacity for trailer. Used, they tend to be pretty affordable, especially compared to pickups, and the van is essentially the same stout chassis as the pickup.

[patperry2766]

check rvtrader.com for used in your area...you will probably save a good chunk of money. Let somebody else take the depreciation hit because more than likely, it has spent more time in the driveway than anywhere else.

When looking at toyhaulers, look at the ones that have a separate door in addition to the fold down rear door. That way you won't have to drop the big door every time you want to access the garage.

I have looked at Orbea, Marin, Trek, Specialized, Cannondale, GT & Diamondback. I want something with at least Shimano's Alivio brand derailers, but would really prefer Deore or XT, 29". I figure I'm gonna be at least $900-1000 if I can find a closeout on a last year's model.

Thanks for your input

[DB2BRMI]

CaptSydor,

Our equipment choice was dictated by priorities.

#1. Budget limitations - we could not buy that 5er with garage and the big TV. We also did not want that big of a footprint.

#2. Our biking. We ride. It is what we do. We travel with five bikes - a tandem, 2 road bikes and 2 mtb bikes. The bikes had to be in the truck under a topper; not outside on fr. or rear hitch racks and not on a roof rack. (CaptSydor - you know why! Been there done that). That meant a long bed pickup (tandem!).

#3. The trailer had to fit our budget and the trailer had to be suitable for our multi-month trips. We spend 7 mos. per year in a 26 TT in the SW. No dogs, no kids. Camp locations are always chosen to maximize % sun and good riding opportunities. We have found that our 26 ft. trailer works well for us but we are literally outside from AM to PM. It works for us. We have no interest in going larger.

Our setup requires thoughtful packing and limitations on "necessities". We are OK with that. We are also OK with the reality that sometimes things are a little tedious - like when we are on the road and we have to unload three bikes to get to the two in the back of the bed that we want to ride that day! That "dance" is part of the deal when you have decided to protect your "tools".

PM me if you want. Best of luck in the process and ride safe.

DB2

[CptSydor]

patperry2766 wrote:
Forest River Vengeance 29V

Hyperlite 27HFS

Kodiak

I don't want to hijack your thread, but I'm interested in getting a new mountain bike and would appreciate some suggestions.

Thanks

Thank for the links.

As for the new mountain bike, if you really aren't to embedded in the world of cycling, best bet is to head into a couple local bikes shops, chat with them, see who you feel comfortable with and who seems to genuinely want to help you find the right bike. Then get them to set you up in your price range. Listen to them, and think critically about what you'll use this bike for. If you are just cruising around campgrounds and very light trails, maybe you don't need a mountain bike and might enjoy a hybrid more as they roll much better.

Any reputable bike shop will carry reputable brands, all of which will have an excellent line up of bikes from beginner to that costs more than my tow vehicle. While different brands will spec their bikes slightly differently, really there is very little/no difference in performance or reliability of similarly priced bikes for the various companies.

Giant, Cannondale, Trek, Specialized are the big names, and you can't go wrong with their offerings. But there are many other brands that will provide you with a bike that is as good, if not better than those companies. Kona, Rocky Mountain, Norco, Jamis, KHS, Marin are a few alternative brands, but there are many others. But as I mentioned, if it's in a proper bike shop, the brand will be reputable.

The biggest thing you'll hear discussed is wheel size, which has been changing dramatically over the past 5 years. Originally mountain bikers were 26" wheels, then came the 29" wheels. 26" wheels are almost dead in production, very few companies have any models now with this size. The whole theory is bigger wheels roll better, while smaller wheels maneuver better. The general consensus is that the rolling better out weights the maneuverability in performance for both elite and entry level riders. Saying that, most people who casually cycle will not notice any difference and finding old stock 26" bikes is often a good way to get a great deal without any worry about parts being a problem anytime in the near future (or ever as they will always be supported as there are so many out there). In the past year however a new wheel size has popped up, the 27.5" or 650b (same thing, two different names). This is actually an old wheel size that has come back into fashion as best of both worlds between the benefits of the 26" and 29".

At the end of the day, get the bike/wheel size that fits your budget, fits you, and that you'll ride the most.

Personally, I would recommend a 26/27.5/29 hardtail, unless you are riding really rough trails. Avoid being seduced by full suspension unless you are really pushing the limits of the bike. You'll only end up sacrificing better parts for the rear suspension on equally priced bikes. It's nicer to have better parts than suspension you really won't use.

Personally, and this is a biased opinion, recommend Scott bikes.

http://www.scott-sports.com/ca/en/category/bike/BikeBikes_2014/BikeBikesMountain_2014/

Would certainly need to know a budget before recommending more. And in saying that, expect to spend $500 minimum for a entry level mountain bike in a shop. $1000 will typically get you a quality hardtail that will be a competent bike that will grow with you as you improve and not really be a limiting factor.

[patperry2766]

Forest River Vengeance 29V

Hyperlite 27HFS

Kodiak

I don't want to hijack your thread, but I'm interested in getting a new mountain bike and would appreciate some suggestions.

Thanks

[kgarrett9999]

CptSydor wrote:

Campfire Time wrote:

kgarrett9999 wrote:
Take a look at the Passport 2920BH. It has an option for a cargo door on the street side where the bunks are. The bunk flips up out of the way and there is room for at least two bikes and probably 3-4.

Trouble is they are looking to be able to do maintenance and repair while in the enclosed area.

Thanks for the suggestion. And yes, while it would be ideal to be working on bikes indoors, that may be a compromise. It's certainly a model I'd take a look at in person.

You don't need the bunks on that side of the trailer anyway, so just take out the bunks. It would give you plenty of room to haul and potentially work. You could even mount a workstand to the floor or back wall.

[CptSydor]

Cotay wrote:

AirForceAngler wrote:

kgarrett9999 wrote:
I love the layout of the Outback 310TB


Depending on how you load it and the payload of the tow vehicle, a half ton could do it.

A guy that lives down the road from has something similar to this in a Springdale.

The Outback Terrain 230TRS is similar but only 27 feet.

I really like the terrain 230TRS. If I was just getting a new trailer for weekending or trips of a couple weeks, I would definitely go after this one. For full-time/extending tripping with 2 people, I definitely want an isolated bedroom for two distinct area where we can get at least a little privacy when needed.

[CptSydor]

Tystevens wrote:
I ride a lot and understand your passion for bikes. I've often thought about a toy hauler, mostly to carry around the bikes, but they are heavy and expensive. I think you'd be hard pressed to find one with the living space you want, decent garage, and a 3/4 or 1 ton tow vehicle for under $50k. But you wouldn't need a full 12' garage unless you were going to maintain a full bike shop in there (which, admittedly, would be really cool).

I'd think about finding a travel trailer with a separate bedroom or bunk area, where the bunks/bed could be removed and you'd have a nice 6-8 X 8 foot area to convert into a bike garage. My BIL has a similar trailer (rear bedroom w/ bunks) that comes in around 8000 lbs, towable for the right 1/2 ton truck, ie, a max tow/payload F150 Ecoboost.

Good luck!

Thanks for that insight. Once I think a lot more, the idea of modifying a bunkhouse might be a good plan. While the toyhauler is ideal, full 10 or 12 ft garage is more than I need and really cuts down on the useful living space, which is important for full-timing. Not to mention, finding a bunkhouse TT will be alot easier locally, especially for a good price (as compared to seeking out something like the Outback 31). Increasing the chances of being able to use a 1/2 tonne is nice as well.

I really need to look at a some bunk houses and see how easy they would be to modify/rip the bunks out. I'm guessing many have external storage underneath the bottom bunk, which might make height a issue for hanging bikes. a 6x8 space likely is enough to work with (tight, but doable, hanging on one wall, working against the other).

[Cotay]

AirForceAngler wrote:

kgarrett9999 wrote:
I love the layout of the Outback 310TB


Depending on how you load it and the payload of the tow vehicle, a half ton could do it.

A guy that lives down the road from has something similar to this in a Springdale.

The Outback Terrain 230TRS is similar but only 27 feet.

[Tystevens]

I ride a lot and understand your passion for bikes. I've often thought about a toy hauler, mostly to carry around the bikes, but they are heavy and expensive. I think you'd be hard pressed to find one with the living space you want, decent garage, and a 3/4 or 1 ton tow vehicle for under $50k. But you wouldn't need a full 12' garage unless you were going to maintain a full bike shop in there (which, admittedly, would be really cool).

I'd think about finding a travel trailer with a separate bedroom or bunk area, where the bunks/bed could be removed and you'd have a nice 6-8 X 8 foot area to convert into a bike garage. My BIL has a similar trailer (rear bedroom w/ bunks) that comes in around 8000 lbs, towable for the right 1/2 ton truck, ie, a max tow/payload F150 Ecoboost.

Good luck!

[CptSydor]

packpe89 wrote:
A camper that size, I would not think about a 1/2 ton for anything but short flat trips. It will catch a lot of side wind. You will feel much more comfortable driving a 3/4 ton. Personally, I always carry my bikes on a rear hitch rack, but for your situation and number of bikes, the Outback seems like a good match. I've seen a couple of those and really liked the layout.

So now you need to decide diesel or gas.

Most likely gas. I'd likely be looking at a 2-3 year old truck, and while I can appreciate the benefits of diesel (parents had an F250 and traveled extensively with a fifth wheel) the $10,000 premium may not be worth it. Though I'd really have to crunch some fuel mileage numbers, potential longevity and convenience numbers, but that's still a big number to front when I'd ideally like to keep the initial investment down.

[CptSydor]

Campfire Time wrote:

kgarrett9999 wrote:
Take a look at the Passport 2920BH. It has an option for a cargo door on the street side where the bunks are. The bunk flips up out of the way and there is room for at least two bikes and probably 3-4.

Trouble is they are looking to be able to do maintenance and repair while in the enclosed area.

Thanks for the suggestion. And yes, while it would be ideal to be working on bikes indoors, that may be a compromise. It's certainly a model I'd take a look at in person.

[PAThwacker]

Smashed up a $3000 cannondale jekyll on a front hitch. Oh wells, that is what insurance is for!

[Campfire_Time]

kgarrett9999 wrote:
Take a look at the Passport 2920BH. It has an option for a cargo door on the street side where the bunks are. The bunk flips up out of the way and there is room for at least two bikes and probably 3-4.

Trouble is they are looking to be able to do maintenance and repair while in the enclosed area.