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U of M study

Perrysburg_Dodg
Explorer
Explorer
U of M study
2015 Ram 1500 Laramie Crew Cab SWB 4X4 Ecodiesel GDE Tune.
46 REPLIES 46

vic46
Explorer
Explorer
Expecting a return on a depreciating asset, such as a vehicle, is folly. Vehicles in particular depreciate at a very rapid rate until they reach a point that the amount of depreciation is negligible. The diesel vehicles perhaps depreciate at a slower rate. Can the operating cost saving of a diesel offset the cost of the diesel option is the question. Or alternatively, can the disposal value of the diesel exceed that of a comparable gasser that has been maintained and operated in a manner consistent with that of a diesel of set the option cost of the diesel? Or, to further confuse the issue, some combination of both! The proffered study indicates the offset is the case. I however am a little sceptical. A corroborating independent study is required in my opinion.

I recall an axiom, "Trust But Verify!"

Mixing operating costs and capital costs is a recipe for disaster. They are not the same and therefore must be addressed independent of one another. Hence the comment regarding some combination of both the capital and operations costs analysis.
[COLOR=]Never argue with an idiot. You will be dragged down to their level and then beaten with experience.

Old-Biscuit
Explorer III
Explorer III
I sold my gas grocery getter and bought a diesel to tow..........simple


I have never bought a vehicle on perceived 'return'


I only buy to fill a need.
Is it time for your medication or mine?


2007 DODGE 3500 QC SRW 5.9L CTD In-Bed 'quiet gen'
2007 HitchHiker II 32.5 UKTG 2000W Xantex Inverter
US NAVY------USS Decatur DDG31

wing_zealot
Explorer
Explorer
Oh transamz I think you've misunderstood me. I'm not bothered at all about you're studies. I think you guys are a hoot the way y'all feel the need to justify your diesel.

bid_time
Nomad II
Nomad II
Show me the data behind the study or it ain't worth the paper it's written on. Once I get the data I'll bet I can find several dozen flaws and self serving assumptions. Case in point no where in the hokey write up did they mention the interest you earn when you leave that $8,000 invested or the additional interest you pay when you finance that $8K. That's finance 101.

transamz9
Explorer
Explorer
wing_zealot wrote:
transamz9 wrote:
wing_zealot wrote:
For the life of me I can't figure out why diesel owner's continuously start these threads for the umpteen billionth time. It's like they need to repeatedly keep justify their decision to buy a diesel. You don't need anyone else's permission to buy a diesel. If your happy - great! If you're trying to prove something, you're not succeeding, so give it up. Those that want a diesel own a diesel, those that don't, don't. They remind me of hawkers at the county fair. The more threads they open the more I suspect they are trying to sell snake oil.


It's for the many people that buy gas because they are told that diesels cost more to own. If you are happy with your purchase and don't like these threads then don't read them. I'm not the OP and could really care less what someone buys I just like threads that give people good info. Take it how you want. Maybe you keep reading the umteen billion threads because you want to find a way to justify what you bought?

Why would I have to justify spending $8,000.00 less for a truck that does everything I ask it to and has a higher payload to boot?
In hindsight now that I think about it you did provide me with an awakening though. They'll never quit no matter what. Sayonora.


My diesel has only 90# less than the highest payload gas in the same make and model configuration. If you are running that close to your payload then you need a bigger truck or you're like me you don't pay any attention to that number. Truth be known, a V6 gas would do what you need to do but not as easily as the V8 and definitely not as easy as a diesel.

I'm not saying you have to justify spending $8,000 less. I'm just saying that by the survey posted earlier, by buying gas you are just not getting the $8,000 back later like the diesel truck would get you.

If a simple discussion about the subject bothers you so bad then why even bother reading the threads or posting in them? You could have stopped after reading the survey. See Ya at the top of the hill......eventually.
2016 Ram 3500 Mega Cab Limited/2013 Ram 3500 SRW Cummins(sold)/2005 RAM 2500 Cummins/2011 Sandpiper 345 RET (sold) 2015 Sanibel 3601/2008 Nitro Z9 Mercury 250 PRO XS the best motor made.

ShinerBock
Explorer
Explorer
wing_zealot wrote:


Why would I have to justify spending $8,000.00 less for a truck that does everything I ask it to and has a higher payload to boot?



You just proved transam's point with this comment in that he stated that most say that you have to pay more when it is proven that it is either a wash or costs less in the whole scheme of things. So in essence you are not paying more in the long run. Also, most gaser have higher door sticker payloads, but have less GAWR. Where I am from, that door sticker doesn't mean squat as long as you register your truck properly.
2014 Ram 2500 6.7L CTD
2016 BMW 2.0L diesel (work and back car)
2023 Jeep Wrangler Rubicon 3.0L Ecodiesel

Highland Ridge Silverstar 378RBS

wing_zealot
Explorer
Explorer
transamz9 wrote:
wing_zealot wrote:
For the life of me I can't figure out why diesel owner's continuously start these threads for the umpteen billionth time. It's like they need to repeatedly keep justify their decision to buy a diesel. You don't need anyone else's permission to buy a diesel. If your happy - great! If you're trying to prove something, you're not succeeding, so give it up. Those that want a diesel own a diesel, those that don't, don't. They remind me of hawkers at the county fair. The more threads they open the more I suspect they are trying to sell snake oil.


It's for the many people that buy gas because they are told that diesels cost more to own. If you are happy with your purchase and don't like these threads then don't read them. I'm not the OP and could really care less what someone buys I just like threads that give people good info. Take it how you want. Maybe you keep reading the umteen billion threads because you want to find a way to justify what you bought?

Why would I have to justify spending $8,000.00 less for a truck that does everything I ask it to and has a higher payload to boot?
In hindsight now that I think about it you did provide me with an awakening though. They'll never quit no matter what. Sayonora.

transamz9
Explorer
Explorer
wing_zealot wrote:
For the life of me I can't figure out why diesel owner's continuously start these threads for the umpteen billionth time. It's like they need to repeatedly keep justify their decision to buy a diesel. You don't need anyone else's permission to buy a diesel. If your happy - great! If you're trying to prove something, you're not succeeding, so give it up. Those that want a diesel own a diesel, those that don't, don't. They remind me of hawkers at the county fair. The more threads they open the more I suspect they are trying to sell snake oil.


It's for the many people that buy gas because they are told that diesels cost more to own. If you are happy with your purchase and don't like these threads then don't read them. I'm not the OP and could really care less what someone buys I just like threads that give people good info. Take it how you want. Maybe you keep reading the umteen billion threads because you want to find a way to justify what you bought?
2016 Ram 3500 Mega Cab Limited/2013 Ram 3500 SRW Cummins(sold)/2005 RAM 2500 Cummins/2011 Sandpiper 345 RET (sold) 2015 Sanibel 3601/2008 Nitro Z9 Mercury 250 PRO XS the best motor made.

wing_zealot
Explorer
Explorer
For the life of me I can't figure out why diesel owner's continuously start these threads for the umpteen billionth time. It's like they need to repeatedly keep justify their decision to buy a diesel. You don't need anyone else's permission to buy a diesel. If your happy - great! If you're trying to prove something, you're not succeeding, so give it up. Those that want a diesel own a diesel, those that don't, don't. They remind me of hawkers at the county fair. The more threads they open the more I suspect they are trying to sell snake oil.

transamz9
Explorer
Explorer
proxim2020 wrote:
From looking at the original study back in 2013, there really isn't much of a difference in the depreciation gap between gas and diesels at the 5 year mark.

Silverado - 9% advantage for diesels.
Sierra - 10% advantage for diesels.
Ram - 1% advantage for diesels.
Ford - 13% advantage for gas.

When it comes to cars and SUVs the gap is more significant. With trucks, not so much. I'd imagine each year beyond the 5 year mark the gap slowly shrinks down to irrelevant.


So what you are saying is I get to drive a more capable truck for the same end cost.
2016 Ram 3500 Mega Cab Limited/2013 Ram 3500 SRW Cummins(sold)/2005 RAM 2500 Cummins/2011 Sandpiper 345 RET (sold) 2015 Sanibel 3601/2008 Nitro Z9 Mercury 250 PRO XS the best motor made.

4X4Dodger
Explorer II
Explorer II
Tom_M wrote:
The gist of the article is that depreciation is the key factor.

"Although the combined costs of insurance, repairs, maintenance and fees and taxes, are higher for nearly all diesel models, the lower depreciation values and lower fuel costs of diesel vehicles contribute to a lower total cost of ownershipโ€”especially among passenger cars and SUVs."


I think the REAL gist of the article is the disclaimer below:

"Belzowski says, however, that diesels are not without their challenges, including the potential increase in the cost of diesel fuel compared to gasoline, and the resulting need for diesels to continue to improve their fuel economy to maintain their total-cost-of-ownership advantage."

Also Diesel in many parts of the country is as much as a Dollar more than Gas. This extra cost, plus the cost of more oil, more filters, more frequent oil changes means that the gain in MPG of diesels is easily offset by these extra costs. Further the outcome of this article could very well be negated simply by geography. Where one lives. A diesel owner in California is not going to save money, while a diesel owner in a cheap fuel state such as South Carolina may well.

I see no where in the article where these issues are addressed. This makes, for me at least, he Premise of the article faulty, leading to an almost predetermined conclusion.

This is to say nothing of the issue of comparing the resale value of Diesel trucks with Volkswagen Jettas (in averaging).

Despite the Underwriters link to the automotive manufacturing world it must be kept in mind that Bosch makes many MORE fuel injection systems and other parts for GASOLINE engines than it does for diesels.

Community Alumni
Not applicable
From looking at the original study back in 2013, there really isn't much of a difference in the depreciation gap between gas and diesels at the 5 year mark.

Silverado - 9% advantage for diesels.
Sierra - 10% advantage for diesels.
Ram - 1% advantage for diesels.
Ford - 13% advantage for gas.

When it comes to cars and SUVs the gap is more significant. With trucks, not so much. I'd imagine each year beyond the 5 year mark the gap slowly shrinks down to irrelevant.

Perrysburg_Dodg
Explorer
Explorer
That would be why I have a 8 year 125,000 mile bumper to bumper Mopar warranty. Funny my 04 never had a injector go bad but then I always ran a fuel lube supplement from day one along with full syn engine oil.

Don
2015 Ram 1500 Laramie Crew Cab SWB 4X4 Ecodiesel GDE Tune.

FishOnOne
Nomad
Nomad
Perrysburg Dodgeboy wrote:
Well I didn't pay $10,000 more for the diesel option in either my 2004 Ram 2500 or this 2015 Ram 1500. My 2004 diesel pickup sold for $18,500 a full $10,000 more than a hemi pickup.

I was fill up today and a guy pulled up with a 2009 Dura-Max that was in near perfect condition and he asked how I liked my Ecodiesel. As we talked he said he was thinking about ordering a 2016 GM but that the dealers would not even give him low wholesale for is currant truck. When I told him what I got for my 2004 less than a year ago he said well it looks like I'm going to have to sell it myself. If you trade vehicles in you are going to take a huge hit every single time.

A note diesel in my area is the same or less at some stations than gas right now. So that even makes it more beneficial to own a diesel.

Out of warranty cost for a diesel should be lower than for a gas engine. No tune ups, $645 for my DD 1998 Avenger and that was with my employee discount mind you. The only thing that will put a hurt to you is if you have to replace a injection pump, but it's not like we are seeing these things dropping like flies. Gas injectors fail just like diesel if not maintained. So

Don


I got $18k for my 05 Super Duty with 170k miles on a trade in. Now I wish I would have kept that truck for farm/ranch duty.

Gas injectors do not fail like diesel injectors. Our 05 cummins had 5 injectors fail and were replaced in two separate events along with the 6th injector being replaced to be proactive since the truck was in the shop. This happened with the truck using nothing but MOPAR filters too. In all the years of fuel injected gas engines I never replaced a single injector.

Since I purchased my 05 Super Duty diesel has been more expensive than gas to a tune of $0.60 for the most part and current diesel prices being ~$0.30 more than gas. Expect diesel prices to increase even more than gas during winter months.

You wont drive your current truck enough miles to get your ROI back for the diesel option. Throw in a out of warranty repair on your diesel engine or exhaust system (remember the DPF has a limited life span) and your ROI will be in the red big time.
'12 Ford Super Duty FX4 ELD CC 6.7 PSD 400HP 800ft/lbs "270k Miles"
'16 Sprinter 319MKS "Wide Body"

Perrysburg_Dodg
Explorer
Explorer
Well I didn't pay $10,000 more for the diesel option in either my 2004 Ram 2500 or this 2015 Ram 1500. My 2004 diesel pickup sold for $18,500 a full $10,000 more than a hemi pickup.

I was fill up today and a guy pulled up with a 2009 Dura-Max that was in near perfect condition and he asked how I liked my Ecodiesel. As we talked he said he was thinking about ordering a 2016 GM but that the dealers would not even give him low wholesale for is currant truck. When I told him what I got for my 2004 less than a year ago he said well it looks like I'm going to have to sell it myself. If you trade vehicles in you are going to take a huge hit every single time.

A note diesel in my area is the same or less at some stations than gas right now. So that even makes it more beneficial to own a diesel.

Out of warranty cost for a diesel should be lower than for a gas engine. No tune ups, $645 for my DD 1998 Avenger and that was with my employee discount mind you. The only thing that will put a hurt to you is if you have to replace a injection pump, but it's not like we are seeing these things dropping like flies. Gas injectors fail just like diesel if not maintained. So

Don
2015 Ram 1500 Laramie Crew Cab SWB 4X4 Ecodiesel GDE Tune.