Understanding towing capactity for Ford Expedition

:) Hi, your Expedition is close to what my Navigator is. My Navigator has a payload of 1,600 lbs. and a tow rating of 8,900 lbs. My trailer has a GVWR of 6,300 lbs and an actual tongue weight of 900 lbs. This leaves about 700 lbs for me and my wife and some other stuff in my Lincoln. Also a 35' trailer is 10 feet longer than mine and will become a big sail when the wind hits it. My opinion is to have a trailer close to 25' and no more than 7,000 lbs. for your tow vehicle.


Another way to figure it out is to figure the tongue weight of a maxed out trailer and start deducting everything from your payload rating.

MAX TOW Rating is a magical mfg. marketing dept number using a base model, 150# driver and 20# cargo...........you will run out of PAYLOAD, Rear Axle Rating and most likely vehicles GVWR long before you ever get to that MAX TOW Rating.

Payload is going be limiting factor.....1590#
That includes your weight above 150#, all passengers weight (human/pets), all cargo inside vehicle, weight of hitch plus tongue weight of trailer.
1590# gets eaten up real fast.


Best thing to do is load vehicle up 'camp ready' (pack everything/everybody) and go to CAT Scales and get weighed
That will give you Front Axle, Rear Axle and Total.

Then using those real weight numbers you can do some math and see how heavy of a trailer you can go.
Rear axle weight plus tongue weight
GCWR minus vehicles total weight
Etc.

Plan on roughly 6500# trailer or lighter.

ROBERTSUNRUS wrote:
:) Hi, your Expedition is close to what my Navigator is. My Navigator has a payload of 1,600 lbs. and a tow rating of 8,900 lbs. My trailer has a GVWR of 6,300 lbs and an actual tongue weight of 900 lbs. This leaves about 700 lbs for me and my wife and some other stuff in my Lincoln. Also a 35' trailer is 10 feet longer than mine and will become a big sail when the wind hits it. My opinion is to have a trailer close to 25' and no more than 7,000 lbs. for your tow vehicle.


Another way to figure it out is to figure the tongue weight of a maxed out trailer and start deducting everything from your payload rating.

IMO Bob is giving you some very sage advice based on real world experience. Both the length and the TW of that trailer can be issues for your Expy and I agree with his suggested TT limits of around 25 to maybe 28' and 7K or under loaded weight.

Larry

Your math a little off
Math would be
gross weight of vehicle loaded for your trip, (full tank of gas , all passengers onboard) plus hitch weight of trailer (if unknown estimate at 15% of gross laden weight of trailer) must be less than the GVWR of your truck
IN ADDITION.
The gross weight of your vehicle PLUS the gross weight of the trailer should not exceed the gross combined weight rating.

All should be weighed/estimated with a full load of camping gear/ clothing and water in the tank.

You need to get most of the numbers off your tow vehicle

Your Expy is likely limited by either the as equipped payload or the recevier rating of 890 pounds. Check the driver's door sticker for max combined weight of occupants and cargo shall not exceed weight.

APT wrote:
Your Expy is likely limited by either the as equipped payload or the recevier rating of 890 pounds. Check the driver's door sticker for max combined weight of occupants and cargo shall not exceed weight.

Sticker says shall not exceed 1385#s. How is that number different than max payload number I found or is it the same and the door is just the more accurate number?

Tycho wrote:

APT wrote:
Your Expy is likely limited by either the as equipped payload or the recevier rating of 890 pounds. Check the driver's door sticker for max combined weight of occupants and cargo shall not exceed weight.

Sticker says shall not exceed 1385#s. How is that number different than max payload number I found or is it the same and the door is just the more accurate number?

Door sticker is the max cargo.

Trailer hitch sticker is the MAX that the hitch can handle safely.

Yellow door sticker cargo weight includes driver AND FULL TANK OF FUEL.

You subtract any other passengers and cargo placed in the tow vehicle from that yellow sticker cargo weight.

The result left over is the max cargo available your vehicle can handle safely.

Now if the max cargo you calculated from the yellow sticker exceeds the hitch rating then use the hitch rating as the max tongue weight you can tow.

IF the max cargo you calculated from the yellow sticker IS LESS THAN the hitch rating then use the LEFT OVER CARGO rating you calculated from the yellow sticker as the max tongue weight you can tow.

The tongue of the trailer becomes "cargo" of the vehicle.

You should have a min of 10% to 15% of the trailer weight as the tongue weight for a STABLE tow.

So, a 5,000 lb trailer should have 500 lbs to 750 lbs of tongue weight.

6,000 lb trailer should have 600 lbs to 900 lbs of tongue weight.

7,000 lb trailer should have 700 lbs to 1,050 lbs of tongue weight.

Keep in mind, weight distribution hitch will ADD some weight to the tongue.. typically figure in about 100 lbs..

A general rule of thumb is that you WILL run out of available "cargo" weight before you run out of any other weight.. So the reality is AVAILABLE CARGO is your limiting factor.

The weights I described above ARE FULLY LOADED WEIGHTS, NOT "DRY" OR "EMPTY" WEIGHTS!!!

Buying by using DRY or EMPTY weights without figuring in ALL the "stuff" you load into the trailer will often put you into a potential overload situation..

Boy this stuff is almost bad as common core math!
Looking at that 1385#s minus my families weight puts the number down in the 1000 range. Throw possibilities of cargo around 200 pounds and we are talking 800 range. Though I would think most of my cargo would be in the TT and not the Expy?
In any case that max number is looking lower than the max tongue load of 890#s.
I checked the hitch sticker and it can support the WD hitch which then says max tongue is 920 on the sticker.

Gdetrailer wrote:

Buying by using DRY or EMPTY weights without figuring in ALL the "stuff" you load into the trailer will often put you into a potential overload situation..

In our shopping I definitely have been looking at the max trailer weights not the dry. My rule of thumb has been looking at somewhere around 7500 or below. But as I read more online I have become more confused about what is going to be good for us. Some say it is too much TT for the TV, others have success stories of pulling TTs bigger for multiple years without issue.

Also another question, how much does a load leveling suspension help? My Expy has one when we bought it and am not sure how helpful it is.

Thanks again for everyone's comments and helpful suggestions!

Short story, Expe is very capable. I'm not the weight cops, but I wouldn't want to haul around something that long with one, but it will do it ok. Just ok, not awesome.
5.4 will be a pooch with that big of a trailer, but I've tortured many 4.6s and 5.4s as bad or worse and they just keep coming back for more.

Tycho wrote:
Boy this stuff is almost bad as common core math!
Looking at that 1385#s minus my families weight puts the number down in the 1000 range. Throw possibilities of cargo around 200 pounds and we are talking 800 range. Though I would think most of my cargo would be in the TT and not the Expy?
In any case that max number is looking lower than the max tongue load of 890#s.
I checked the hitch sticker and it can support the WD hitch which then says max tongue is 920 on the sticker.

Gdetrailer wrote:

Buying by using DRY or EMPTY weights without figuring in ALL the "stuff" you load into the trailer will often put you into a potential overload situation..

In our shopping I definitely have been looking at the max trailer weights not the dry. My rule of thumb has been looking at somewhere around 7500 or below. But as I read more online I have become more confused about what is going to be good for us. Some say it is too much TT for the TV, others have success stories of pulling TTs bigger for multiple years without issue.

Also another question, how much does a load leveling suspension help? My Expy has one when we bought it and am not sure how helpful it is.

Thanks again for everyone's comments and helpful suggestions!

Think of it as two different "cargo's", one is passengers plus stuff like snacks, drinks, entertainment, games, tablets/computer items/cellphones that you take IN the vehicle..

Then the second "cargo" is all the needed camping items you will want to take with you..

The second one really adds up and it is typically carried as cargo by the trailer.

Typically you will take pots, pans, silverware, food, drinks, clothing for each person, bedding for each person, additional entertainment items, games, basic tools, extension cords, water hose(s), sewer hose, wood blocking (for leveling and under stabilizers), flashlights, bicycles, outdoor chairs and so on and so on..

Some trailers the 12V battery AND propane tanks and propane are not accounted for in the trailer dry weight.. That can add 120 lbs directly to your tongue weight.

Pretty darn good chance you will average 800-1,000 lbs of personal items you will put into the trailer for camping..

Additionally, if you plan to dry camp, freshwater WILL take a huge bite out of your trailer cargo..

If this is your first time towing/camping, typically as a newbee you will tend to pack on the heavy side.. Took us a couple of years to weed out a lot of extra unneeded stuff!

Personally, I do not subscribe to the general consensus around most RV forums of going big or go home..

I call it the "super size" mentality where most folks think just because a vehicle is rated at a certain level that they MUST buy a trailer AT that level..

I would rather UNDER SIZE my trailer for the vehicle!

For instance, 2013 F250 with 3415 lbs of cargo.. 26ft TT loaded I am at 7K lbs.. Well below my vehicles capacity in all aspects..

Gives me plenty of leftover capacity just in case MR MURPHY crosses my path..

I can tell you, it HAS payed dividends a few times.. I have dodged DEER running across in front of me not once but TWICE over the years.. And at HIGHWAY SPEEDS!! One time was so close I could see the deer ticks JUMPING off the deer :E

MR MURPHY stinks but I beat him at his game :B

Had I had a lighter vehicle and heavier trailer, the outcome most likely would not have been good.