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VW/Audi

Perrysburg_Dodg
Explorer
Explorer
This is going to hurt the bottom line a bit! So wonder how the fix will affect their fuel mileage and used car prices?

LINK
The Environmental Protection Agency and California issued a notice of violation of the Clean Air Act to Volkswagen Friday over a device in certain models that allows vehicles to emit pollutants without detection during normal operation, according to a statement released by the EPA.
The so-called “defeat device,” found in 2009-2015 model Volkswagen and Audi diesel cars, uses sophisticated software that turns on full emissions controls only during official lab tests but then turns them down during normal driving. As a result, the cars release nitrogen oxides at up to 40 times the federal standard, according to agency.
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hone_eagle
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Explorer
The first head is rolling
VW ceo resigned
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Jack_Diane_Free
Explorer
Explorer
Köpfe werden bei VW rollen

ktmrfs
Explorer II
Explorer II
well this morning CNN reported that VW says it now affects 11 MILLION cars worldwide! and they have set aside $7.5BILLION just to cover the recall.

http://money.cnn.com/2015/09/22/news/vw-recall-diesel/index.html
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Dadoffourgirls
Explorer
Explorer
Claude B wrote:
...
And for VW, I don't think it would be fair to ask them to pay billions of dollars in fine. :

http://www2.epa.gov/enforcement/caterpillar-inc-clean-air-act-settlement


Wow.

You own their car, and first state that you believe that you are polluting no more than other pickups, and then indicate that it would not be fair to ask them to pay Billions in fines for intentionally violating the law.

Sounds like the mother who says "their kid was a good kid, he never could have done bad!"
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RinconVTR
Explorer
Explorer
ktmrfs wrote:
here is a link as to how VW got caught

http://blog.caranddriver.com/how-volkswagen-got-busted-for-gaming-epa-diesel-emissions-standards/

during testing the BMW X5 diesel easily met NOx emissions during real driving while the multiple VW models vastly exceeded the std.

VW claimed they fixed it in a recall in 2014, buyt testing didn't show that. It wasn't until EPA said we are witholding compliance on 2016 models until you explain what's going on.


That C&D article is also very complete. Good find.

RinconVTR
Explorer
Explorer
So many tales as to how VW got caught. The full story is here, which can be found elsewhere in pieces but this article is complete. The EPA get ZERO credit. They are late to the game, but look good now for throwing down hard. And I'm asked to justify why I think the EPA is a joke...I'm not even scratching the surface.

"Two years ago, the International Council on Clean Transportation, a nonprofit environmental group staffed by a number of former E.P.A. officials, had been testing the real-world performance of so-called clean diesel cars in Europe, and were less than impressed with the emissions results."

"The group decided it would test diesel-powered cars in the United States, where regulations were much more strict, as a way of almost shaming the European automakers to tighten their compliance. The group fully expected the American cars to do well, and run cleaner than their counterparts across the pond."

"Further, on the campus of West Virginia University, a group of emissions researchers who mainly dealt with heavy trucks noticed an unusual posting by the transportation council, which was looking for a partner to test diesel-powered cars."

“No one had done that before in the U.S.,” said Arvind Thiruvengadam, a professor at the university. “It sounded very interesting, to test light-duty diesel vehicles in real-world conditions. We looked around at each other said, ‘Let’s do it.’ ”


EPA seems to get credit...until you read the whole story.

ktmrfs
Explorer II
Explorer II
here is a link as to how VW got caught

http://blog.caranddriver.com/how-volkswagen-got-busted-for-gaming-epa-diesel-emissions-standards/

during testing the BMW X5 diesel easily met NOx emissions during real driving while the multiple VW models vastly exceeded the std.

VW claimed they fixed it in a recall in 2014, buyt testing didn't show that. It wasn't until EPA said we are witholding compliance on 2016 models until you explain what's going on.
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Claude_B
Explorer
Explorer
Hi Ktmrfs,

Thanks for the info. And yes, 25 mpg for a such a vehicule as yours is pretty good.

And for VW, I don't think it would be fair to ask them to pay billions of dollars in fine. :

http://www2.epa.gov/enforcement/caterpillar-inc-clean-air-act-settlement
Claude
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LowRyter
Explorer
Explorer
RinconVTR wrote:



LowRyter wrote:
RVTR - you really seem to hate the EPA. So you hate the regulations, the enforcement? I wonder why you have so much animosity in every point you make.

And you think VW should get away with it? I don't get it.


I do not have to justify my feelings to anyone.

And I did not say VW should get away with anything. It may have appeared that way in my first post, but you obviously did not read any follow ups.


hey, you voiced your opinion, you're gonna get some questions. If you can't explain it, it's on you. Not on someone that asked when you make a provocative statements. Like they say, if you can't stand the heat, get out of the kitchen.

And yeah, you did make it pretty clear you were OK if VW got away with it. Glad you clarified it. I can't go along with breaking the law.

You might not like EPA, even though you won't explain why. It appears to me that EPA has a difficult job and it took months for VW to come clean. Not surprising that the Agency would take it's time given the clout and lobbying of VW. The Govt is usually at a disadvantage when dealing with big corporations.
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ktmrfs
Explorer II
Explorer II
Claude B wrote:
I have a question.

Doe's the EPA emission standards are the same for cars and light trucks and SUVs ? Are they less restrictive for light trucks ?

You know, even with the VW ''Das scandal'' diesel vehicule, I'm just back from Wilmington NC to Montréal with my 2012 Passat TDI with an avg of 51 mi/gal US (4,5 L/100km, hand calculated). I don't believe that I made more pollution that any american PU or large SUV with a diesel engine or even a V8 gaz engine...


emission standards for class 2 & 3 trucks (AKA 3/4 ton and 1 ton) are slightly less restrictive than for cars. I believe the emission standards for class 1 (AKA 1/2 ton) trucks is very close if not the same as cars.

However, from what I recall if the TDI emissions are as claimed they are far in excess of what is allowed in 3/4 or 1 ton pickups.


BTW with my 8,000lb diesel pickup, I've exceeded 25mpg on a 800 mile trip, crossing the continental divide and two major passes. not bad for something that weights 2.5x the VW and has a frontal area and Cd way worse than the TDI.
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ktmrfs
Explorer II
Explorer II
RinconVTR wrote:
ktmrfs wrote:
For those who were so quick to blame the EPA for NOT catching this one, well the EPA has been pressuring VW for over a year to explain why the vehicles were showing such high emissions in real driving vs. the testing. VW didn't come clean until the EPA said they would not approve the 2016 diesels for sale in the U.S. until VW could explain.... then VW came clean.


Source?



LowRyter wrote:
RVTR - you really seem to hate the EPA. So you hate the regulations, the enforcement? I wonder why you have so much animosity in every point you make.

And you think VW should get away with it? I don't get it.


I do not have to justify my feelings to anyone.

And I did not say VW should get away with anything. It may have appeared that way in my first post, but you obviously did not read any follow ups.



here is a quote from autoguide

Volkswagen issued a stop-sale on all 2015 model year cars with the 2.0-liter TDI four-cylinder engine. At this time, the EPA will not grant a “certificate of conformity” for 2016 model year Volkswagen vehicles with the TDI engine, meaning they are also not for sale. Canada has also issued a stop sale on the affected cars until the issue is resolved
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Claude_B
Explorer
Explorer
I have a question.

Doe's the EPA emission standards are the same for cars and light trucks and SUVs ? Are they less restrictive for light trucks ?

You know, even with the VW ''Das scandal'' diesel vehicule, I'm just back from Wilmington NC to Montréal with my 2012 Passat TDI with an avg of 51 mi/gal US (4,5 L/100km, hand calculated). I don't believe that I made more pollution than any american PU or large SUV with a diesel engine or even a V8 gaz engine for the same trip...
Claude
2013 Gulf Stream VISA 19ERD
VW Touareg TDI 2013
VW Passat 2012 TDI

Fast_Mopar
Explorer
Explorer
ktmrfs wrote:
For those who were so quick to blame the EPA for NOT catching this one, well the EPA has been pressuring VW for over a year to explain why the vehicles were showing such high emissions in real driving vs. the testing. VW didn't come clean until the EPA said they would not approve the 2016 diesels for sale in the U.S. until VW could explain.... then VW came clean.

AND according to another article today, they also announced in addition to haulting sales of existing dealer inventory they were not selling any 2016 diesels in the U.S.!!!


Yes, there were several articles in Automotive News today addressing this topic, and I believe I read those details in one of their articles. Truly a disappointment.
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RinconVTR
Explorer
Explorer
ktmrfs wrote:
For those who were so quick to blame the EPA for NOT catching this one, well the EPA has been pressuring VW for over a year to explain why the vehicles were showing such high emissions in real driving vs. the testing. VW didn't come clean until the EPA said they would not approve the 2016 diesels for sale in the U.S. until VW could explain.... then VW came clean.


Source?



LowRyter wrote:
RVTR - you really seem to hate the EPA. So you hate the regulations, the enforcement? I wonder why you have so much animosity in every point you make.

And you think VW should get away with it? I don't get it.


I do not have to justify my feelings to anyone.

And I did not say VW should get away with anything. It may have appeared that way in my first post, but you obviously did not read any follow ups.

ktmrfs
Explorer II
Explorer II
For those who were so quick to blame the EPA for NOT catching this one, well the EPA has been pressuring VW for over a year to explain why the vehicles were showing such high emissions in real driving vs. the testing. VW didn't come clean until the EPA said they would not approve the 2016 diesels for sale in the U.S. until VW could explain.... then VW came clean.

AND according to another article today, they also announced in addition to haulting sales of existing dealer inventory they were not selling any 2016 diesels in the U.S.!!!
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2004.5 Silverado 4x4 CC/SB Duramax/Allison passed on to our Son!