VW/Audi

[Perrysburg_Dodg]

This is going to hurt the bottom line a bit! So wonder how the fix will affect their fuel mileage and used car prices?

LINK
The Environmental Protection Agency and California issued a notice of violation of the Clean Air Act to Volkswagen Friday over a device in certain models that allows vehicles to emit pollutants without detection during normal operation, according to a statement released by the EPA.
The so-called “defeat device,” found in 2009-2015 model Volkswagen and Audi diesel cars, uses sophisticated software that turns on full emissions controls only during official lab tests but then turns them down during normal driving. As a result, the cars release nitrogen oxides at up to 40 times the federal standard, according to agency.

[RobertRyan]

John & Angela wrote:
Just my opinion but my guess is there is no way that this will not boost electric vehicle sales, probably more so in europe than in North America though.

In a word no.VW will be mistrusted though

[John___Angela]

kellertx5er wrote:

John & Angela wrote:

wilber1 wrote:

kellertx5er wrote:

Bionic Man wrote:
Sorry, but the Chevy Volt is a very bad product (for GM), and built more for policitcal purposes than anything else. From everything I have read, there is ZERO profit margin in that vehicle.

That may change in 2016, or as technology eveolves, but my guess is right now GM doesn't really care if they sell more of them.

ALL electrics and hybrids are built for political reasons. If the tax incentives for manufacturers and consumers went away, production would cease after the current model year.

I don't think tax incentives are much of an influence on people who would buy a Tesla or BMW I8

Yepir. I agree. There was a tax incentive on ours but I wouldn't hesitate to buy another. Much better driving experience overall not to mention the performance.

There are all kinds of incentives on the petroleum side as well. Seems that's what makes the world go around 🙂

But would you buy it without the incentive? You did not clarify.

Yah probably. Great car for us.

[APT]

Besides customer tax incentives, there have been major government funding just to develop every electrified vehicle in the States.

[kellertx5er]

John & Angela wrote:

wilber1 wrote:

kellertx5er wrote:

Bionic Man wrote:
Sorry, but the Chevy Volt is a very bad product (for GM), and built more for policitcal purposes than anything else. From everything I have read, there is ZERO profit margin in that vehicle.

That may change in 2016, or as technology eveolves, but my guess is right now GM doesn't really care if they sell more of them.

ALL electrics and hybrids are built for political reasons. If the tax incentives for manufacturers and consumers went away, production would cease after the current model year.

I don't think tax incentives are much of an influence on people who would buy a Tesla or BMW I8

Yepir. I agree. There was a tax incentive on ours but I wouldn't hesitate to buy another. Much better driving experience overall not to mention the performance.

There are all kinds of incentives on the petroleum side as well. Seems that's what makes the world go around 🙂

But would you buy it without the incentive? You did not clarify.

[kellertx5er]

Almost added "except for Tesla" in my post. Let's pretend that I did.

[John___Angela]

wilber1 wrote:

kellertx5er wrote:

Bionic Man wrote:
Sorry, but the Chevy Volt is a very bad product (for GM), and built more for policitcal purposes than anything else. From everything I have read, there is ZERO profit margin in that vehicle.

That may change in 2016, or as technology eveolves, but my guess is right now GM doesn't really care if they sell more of them.

ALL electrics and hybrids are built for political reasons. If the tax incentives for manufacturers and consumers went away, production would cease after the current model year.

I don't think tax incentives are much of an influence on people who would buy a Tesla or BMW I8

Yepir. I agree. There was a tax incentive on ours but I wouldn't hesitate to buy another. Much better driving experience overall not to mention the performance.

There are all kinds of incentives on the petroleum side as well. Seems that's what makes the world go around :). For our needs I can't see us ever needing any kind of car with a tail pipe ever again. Budgets obviously come into play here but an extra 5000 bucks wouldn't sway us back to an oil burner after going electric.

[wilber1]

kellertx5er wrote:

Bionic Man wrote:
Sorry, but the Chevy Volt is a very bad product (for GM), and built more for policitcal purposes than anything else. From everything I have read, there is ZERO profit margin in that vehicle.

That may change in 2016, or as technology eveolves, but my guess is right now GM doesn't really care if they sell more of them.

ALL electrics and hybrids are built for political reasons. If the tax incentives for manufacturers and consumers went away, production would cease after the current model year.

I don't think tax incentives are much of an influence on people who would buy a Tesla or BMW I8

[kellertx5er]

Bionic Man wrote:
Sorry, but the Chevy Volt is a very bad product (for GM), and built more for policitcal purposes than anything else. From everything I have read, there is ZERO profit margin in that vehicle.

That may change in 2016, or as technology eveolves, but my guess is right now GM doesn't really care if they sell more of them.

ALL electrics and hybrids are built for political reasons. If the tax incentives for manufacturers and consumers went away, production would cease after the current model year.

[IdaD]

Pooter wrote:

rjstractor wrote:

IdaD wrote:
I think the 2.0 VW motor may take a bit of a hit with proper emissions in place, but I bet it will still get substantially better mileage than its gas counterpart.

For the sake of TDI owners I hope you're right, but my gas Passat averages 32 mpg in mixed driving and easily hits 40+ on the highway. Diesels can hit 50 easily now, we will see how the reflash affects mileage.

I wonder how long until aftermarket .....mmm "off road"
tuners come out the flash back to VW's original cheatware?

There are already TDI emissions delete kits available.

[Pooter]

rjstractor wrote:

IdaD wrote:
I think the 2.0 VW motor may take a bit of a hit with proper emissions in place, but I bet it will still get substantially better mileage than its gas counterpart.

For the sake of TDI owners I hope you're right, but my gas Passat averages 32 mpg in mixed driving and easily hits 40+ on the highway. Diesels can hit 50 easily now, we will see how the reflash affects mileage.

I wonder how long until aftermarket .....mmm "off road"
tuners come out that flash back to VW's original cheatware?

[John___Angela]

mich800 wrote:

John & Angela wrote:

mich800 wrote:
Strictly from an environmental and cost standpoint it does not make sense to purchase a diesel, hybrid, or electric vehicle right now relative to a comparable gas only vehicle. If it makes you feel better that is great. But no different than putting a big down payment on a leased vehicle to get a lower monthly payment.

I don't know. I suppose it depends on how it is used and the region you drive it. Without a doubt one of the big reasons we bought our Electric was the excellent driving experience and performance, but it also costs a fraction to drive of what a gasser would cost. We only do 1200 to 1500 KM a month in ours but I know some who drive double that. That's gotta save a few bucks. From the environent side, it's an inexpensive car that doesn't use a lot of resources to make, all the power comes from hydro and the car was specifically built to be easily recyclable at the end of its life including repurposing the battery. I don't think they are the answer for everyone but they certainly excel in some areas.

That was exactly my point. You can pay extra now for that option and save over the life of the product. Or you can pay less now and get a similar gas powered but still very fuel efficient vehicle but pay a little more at the pump after. The net outcome is the same.

I see what you are getting at, but still, we paid 20 grand for our little electric, brand new.
There were a few cheaper economy cars out there but none were convertibles, none were two seaters and none came anywhere close in features or performance. I think a lot depends on the drivers needs and wants. Some need four seats and obviously convertibles are not ideal for all climates and of course some need longer range, especially single car families. . Different strokes....

[mich800]

John & Angela wrote:

mich800 wrote:
Strictly from an environmental and cost standpoint it does not make sense to purchase a diesel, hybrid, or electric vehicle right now relative to a comparable gas only vehicle. If it makes you feel better that is great. But no different than putting a big down payment on a leased vehicle to get a lower monthly payment.

I don't know. I suppose it depends on how it is used and the region you drive it. Without a doubt one of the big reasons we bought our Electric was the excellent driving experience and performance, but it also costs a fraction to drive of what a gasser would cost. We only do 1200 to 1500 KM a month in ours but I know some who drive double that. That's gotta save a few bucks. From the environent side, it's an inexpensive car that doesn't use a lot of resources to make, all the power comes from hydro and the car was specifically built to be easily recyclable at the end of its life including repurposing the battery. I don't think they are the answer for everyone but they certainly excel in some areas.

That was exactly my point. You can pay extra now for that option and save over the life of the product. Or you can pay less now and get a similar gas powered but still very fuel efficient vehicle but pay a little more at the pump after. The net outcome is the same.

[John___Angela]

mich800 wrote:
Strictly from an environmental and cost standpoint it does not make sense to purchase a diesel, hybrid, or electric vehicle right now relative to a comparable gas only vehicle. If it makes you feel better that is great. But no different than putting a big down payment on a leased vehicle to get a lower monthly payment.

I don't know. I suppose it depends on how it is used and the region you drive it. Without a doubt one of the big reasons we bought our Electric was the excellent driving experience and performance, but it also costs a fraction to drive of what a gasser would cost. We only do 1200 to 1500 KM a month in ours but I know some who drive double that. That's gotta save a few bucks. From the environent side, it's an inexpensive car that doesn't use a lot of resources to make, all the power comes from hydro and the car was specifically built to be easily recyclable at the end of its life including repurposing the battery. I don't think they are the answer for everyone but they certainly excel in some areas.

[mich800]

Strictly from an environmental and cost standpoint it does not make sense to purchase a diesel, hybrid, or electric vehicle right now relative to a comparable gas only vehicle. If it makes you feel better that is great. But no different than putting a big down payment on a leased vehicle to get a lower monthly payment.

[sky_free]

Bedlam wrote:
I am concerned I will either have a vehicle requiring a costly battery change or no resale value due to battery costs - My TDI has good resale due to the longevity of vehicle power plant (plus it is not effected by this EPA compliance).

According to KBB & the WSJ it just dropped 13%. I really doubt people will distinguish between affected and unaffected models like the Touareg when assessing value. Your 2003 is probably only worth about $4,000 though, so not a very big hit either way.